The blind hate of Polak

[Budsfan]

Why Babcock likes Polak and Komarov

The Maple Leafs coach loves his veterans and wants his team to play playoff-style hockey now

Why Babcock likes Polak and Komarov | Toronto Star

(Toronto Star File Photo)


By Kevin McGranSports Reporter
Thu., Jan. 11, 2018

Going into a break with a playoff spot well in hand, the Maple Leafs are 11 points clear of their nearest pursuer -- for third place -- in the Atlantic Division.
Granted, most of the others have three, or four games in hand. Still it's a nice bulge, even if the Leafs have left a few points on the table in the last two games.
But a large aspect of Leafs Nation does not seem happy. It seems to me Maple Leafs fans are never quite happy unless they get to complain about some aspect of their team.
Three themes have emerged: Roman Polak, Leo Komarov and Mike Babcock's coaching decisions.
(There are others, like folks who have Zach Hyman issues, Jake Gardiner giveaways or who does Mitch Marner play with.)
Let's deal with Polak first, because that's so fun.
I got into it on Twitter during the Ottawa game when Thomas Chabot scored off Polak's skate. It was like the anti-Polak crowd had never seen such a thing, and that was it: if you weren't done with Polak by then, you should be now because a goal went in off his skate.
To be clear, I wasn't defending Polak. I see his the weakness in his play as clearly as anyone. I was lamenting the vitriol aimed at Polak. The vile hatred toward him, I just don't get.

Babcock likes that he plays with snarl. He plays tough. If you're going to beat him, you're going to pay a price.
I get it, though. Those things can't be measured. And in an age of puck-moving defencemen and zone exits, Polak stands out in neither category.
But no team is perfect. No team has six ideal puck-moving defenceman. Sometimes -- believe it or not -- your team has to play in its own zone. I know this is not ideal, and that the game is best played in the other team's zone, but, you know, stuff happens and the play comes toward your goalie.
Shot blockers and hitters are frowned upon (stats that reflect not having the puck) in certain quarters. But not by Babcock, who accepts the reality you can't be soft in your own zone.
Much of what I just wrote about Polak can apply to Komarov, the forward who plays with snarl, and who plays tough.
Forwards, though, are expected to score, especially if they play with Nazem Kadri and Patrick Marleau. Four goals and seven assists doesn't quite seem up to snuff. Connor Brown has 10 goals, playing mostly on the fourth line.
On the surface, Komarov has terrible possession numbers (45.4 per cent) and may be a drag on Kadri (49.0 per cent) and Marleau (50.4). It's likely more reflective of the competition that line plays against, typically the other team's top scorers.
Remember, Komarov also starts in his own zone 63.5 per cent of the time (not counting changing on the fly). That's the most among any Leaf regular -- forward or defence. So maybe 45.5 per cent ain't so bad. So it's obvious Babcock trusts Komarov more than just about any other forward in his own zone.
But yes, you'd like to see a bit more for Komarov in the other end. But Babcock likes to mix grit with skill (why Hyman plays with Auston Matthews).
Which brings us to Babcock's coaching decisions. He seems stubborn, unwilling to change, unwilling to try new ideas. I disagree with that word -- I'd say he's more steadfast in how he wants his teams to play -- but I understand the sentiment.
This team could be a lot more fun to watch, if he unleashed the offensive power he has in Matthews, Mitch Marner, and William Nylander.
This team could be quicker, if Connor Carrick and Travis Dermott played more, and if Kasperi Kapanen was a regular.
But I'd hazard a guess the team's record would not be remarkably different. And they would not be even close to playoff-ready.
Babcock wants his team to play playoff-style hockey now. He's wanted that since the second week in October.
He likes his veterans -- Polak and Komarov perhaps chief among them, but you can throw in Ron Hainsey and Patrick Marleau -- because they are battle-ready. They will show the youngsters what it takes, he believes, if they want the key minutes in close games when the play is in their end.
His job title says "coach" so, yeah, he gets to coach and not worry about what the rest of us think.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Roman Polak has been one of the best defenders in the league at the PK. Im not surprised that he has had a long career just based on that. Whether he still is the same is another question. And whether it makes up for his decline in other areas.

 

[Morgs]

Roman Polak has been one of the best defenders in the league at the PK. Im not surprised that he has had a long career just based on that. Whether he still is the same is another question. And whether it makes up for his decline in other areas.

Do you have any proof he has been other than looking soley at PK%? Genuinely curious.

 

[Morgs]

I just looked up penalty killing for the last 8 seasons (players that have played more than 500 minutes) [145 players] :

FA/60 - 69.65 (33rd)
xGA/60 - 6.43 (46th)
GA/60 - 5.72 (22nd)
Penalty differential - +8 (97th)

In a vacuum he's been a good penalty killer overall the last 8 years, but this lacks quite a bit of context. Don't know how much this actually means.

 

[leafs10101]

Polak makes terrible on ice decisions from what I can see. He'll miss defenders coming right at him in his own zone and try to throw a pass cross ice. It's maddening to watch because he's always 2-3 seconds too slow. I'll be screaming "GET RID OF IT" before the defender is near him, and he'll wait or not see him. Another thing Polak does terribly is move the puck. He'll bobble the it 2-3 times before reigning it in to make a play. This is an eternity in the NHL and defenders are always on him or his team is thrown off kilter before he gets going. Thirdly, Polak takes so many penalties that are unnecessary, it makes you wonder what his worth is. Often, his penalties are after the whistle or when the play is up ice. Even Martin is smarter than this. It makes zero sense because it does not boost the team in any way to rough up someone in these situations. His skating is also marginal. I think 3-4 glaring reasons why a player is a detriment to his team is enough to let Carrick, Dermott, and Borgman play over him.

My only reasoning for him even playing is Babcock is teaching the younger guys about discipline and shutting up and putting the team first. I had the exact thing happen to me on a high level basketball team. While I was saying "Coach, I'm better than x, y, z", I was told ok and sat on the bench. When I shut up, I played. When I shut up and played well, I got to start. Sports is a funny thing. You can't expect everything handed to you if the coach doesn't know you well. I think this may be the case with Polak and the young guys. Babcock knows they're better, but trusts Polak until the young guys develop the right mentality and play well.

 

[Pattbraderson]

Blind hate? Au contraire bonjour, the hate is a direct result of what people SEE

 

[Nithoniniel]

Do you have any proof he has been other than looking soley at PK%? Genuinely curious.

I once made a stat that looked at contextualized results of the PK at both limiting goals and chances against. QoC was taken into account, and it was in comparison to their replacements. It was very interesting actually, since what it showed was that most players are utterly replaceable on the PK. Results are mostly driven by system, and how the goalie performs in that system. There were some that stood out though as able to consistently make a difference compared to his peers, and I remember that Polak was one of them.

Sadly, that stat and others I devised were in a file that I've lost since then. They'd be two seasons out of date as well.

 

[Morgs]

I once made a stat that looked at contextualized results of the PK at both limiting goals and chances against. QoC was taken into account, and it was in comparison to their replacements. It was very interesting actually, since what it showed was that most players are utterly replaceable on the PK. Results are mostly driven by system, and how the goalie performs in that system. There were some that stood out though as able to consistently make a difference compared to his peers, and I remember that Polak was one of them.

Sadly, that stat and others I devised were in a file that I've lost since then. They'd be two seasons out of date as well.

Interesting. It would have been great to see the data.

It's quite strange to me that better hockey minds than myself have been able to come so far with 5v5 and PP play to see the effectiveness of a singular player, but have gotten almost nowhere with the penalty kill.

Seems to me it's more a product of the system/goalie/competition/zone starts than it actually is the player.. again so much unlike 5v5 and PP play.

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

Polak does deserve a lot of the criticism he gets. Last game was pretty bad for him.
He is a scapegoat though. This board is absolutely terrible for blaming Bozak and Polak anytime they're on the ice and something negative happens.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

660 NHL GP kinda says he is.

Sometimes the guys that come from the 6th round don't possess the "skills" that are so adored by certain fans.

He's a third paring D-man at the tail end of his career. He's a placeholder for now and part of the "patience" everyone claimed to have when they were screaming for a rebuild.

Why should fans be expecting a "Patience" approach when we trade picks for rentals, and potentially keep FA's that will walk for nothing? I don't get how some fans can say "oh you fan's were begging for a rebuild and now can't be patient". It's hard to be patient when your Coach and GM are making moves that teams going for it do. Rebuilding teams don't keeps young talent that are ready to play in the NHL in the AHL for 30+ year olds with one year on their contacts. They don't trade 2nd round picks for rentals. Enough with telling fans to be patient. Management has made it clear by their actions, we are trying to win now and statically Polak does not give you the best chances of achieving that goal

 

[TOGuy14]

How is it blind hate when the eye test and almost every defensive metric out there all show that he is bad?

 

[iliketheteam]

The problem with thinking like him being the "patience" part of the rebuild is because we have young defenseman that are showing strong potential (Borgman, Dermott, Carrick), who can't find a place full-time in the lineup because they're blocked by this oaf.

I'm sensing you may not have a strong grasp on the concept of "patience".

Have a look at this.

impatience
[im-pey-shuh ns]

1.
lack of patience.
2.
eager desire for relief or change; restlessness.
3.
intolerance of anything that thwarts, delays, or hinders.

You (and many others) are getting frustrated because these young guys are not regulars in the line up (yet)
You (and many others) are being impatient, when you all said you were going to be patient if you got the rebuild strategy you desired.

 

[Morgs]

I'm sensing you may not have a strong grasp on the concept of "patience".

Have a look at this.

impatience
[im-pey-shuh ns]

1.
lack of patience.
2.
eager desire for relief or change; restlessness.
3.
intolerance of anything that thwarts, delays, or hinders.

You (and many others) are getting frustrated because these young guys are not regulars in the line up (yet)
You (and many others) are being impatient, when you all said you were going to be patient if you got the rebuild strategy you desired.

Ok Mr. Condescension, I'm aware what you're saying, I just think you're wrong.

There is nothing positive about benching good young players trying to develop for an oaf that makes us worse TODAY.

 

[Trapper]

I'm sensing you may not have a strong grasp on the concept of "patience".

Have a look at this.

impatience
[im-pey-shuh ns]

1.
lack of patience.
2.
eager desire for relief or change; restlessness.
3.
intolerance of anything that thwarts, delays, or hinders.

You (and many others) are getting frustrated because these young guys are not regulars in the line up (yet)
You (and many others) are being impatient, when you all said you were going to be patient if you got the rebuild strategy you desired.

I'm confused though.
I say we are still building and should move the UFAs because we have team and organizational holes that need to be addressed to take the next step. Assets gained to add players that will backfill and keep the organization strong for years.

Many have indicated just let them walk because we are contenders. And even add a vet D at the deadline when prices could include a 1st round pick for another UFA.

Am I patient or impatient in light of building?

 

[iliketheteam]

Ok Mr. Condescension, I'm aware what you're saying, I just think you're wrong.

There is nothing positive about benching good young players trying to develop for an oaf that makes us worse TODAY.

You really should listen to a couple of Hainsey's interviews about being a young player in the NHL.

 

[Minus Mitch]

It's not played with a sheet, but in this case it backs up the eye test that he's a putrid defenseman at the NHL level, that drags everyone else down on the ice.

I mean, if you don't want to look at underlying stats why not look up his penalty differential for a guy who's supposed to be in the lineup to PK? Why not look at what our PK is with him, and without him? Spoiler: It's the same.

Just because a player *like* Polak is good for a team, doesn't mean Polak is an actual NHL player.

The numbers don’t tell you anything. How can you know that all scenarios are the same? That’s the dynamics of hockey and why it’s not a spreadsheet game. Who was on the opposition PP? Who was the shooter? Who else was on the ice? Did his goalie move exactly the same way on every PK so that you could measure? What was the score at the time of the goal? What building? Saying the % are equal tells nothing of the story.

 

[iliketheteam]

I'm confused though.
I say we are still building and should move the UFAs because we have team and organizational holes that need to be addressed to take the next step. Assets gained to add players that will backfill and keep the organization strong for years.

Many have indicated just let them walk because we are contenders. And even add a vet D at the deadline when prices could include a 1st round pick for another UFA.

Am I patient or impatient in light of building?

I'm not sure......do you feel a sense of restlessness that things you think should happen are not happening fast enough? Do you find yourself getting upset that younger players aren't in the line up now?

Your post mentions taking the next step......what is that step and when do you expect it to happen?

 

[Trapper]

I'm not sure......do you feel a sense of restlessness that things you think should happen are not happening fast enough? Do you find yourself getting upset that younger players aren't in the line up now?

Your post mentions taking the next step......what is that step and when do you expect it to happen?

I don't like the prospect of losing a JVR or even Gardiner (next year) for nothing. Especially when we could use the assets to fill holes for the long term.

As for the team, I'm fine if we don't make any moves. I don't need to send Marner/Nylander or whatever for a D. Happy to let Dermott and Lily progress.

Whatever we do in the playoffs is fine, I will cheer until we win or are eliminated.

That's about it. All I want is to grab assets for those leaving/not part of the plan.
The next step happens when it happens. The prospects graduate, the young guys gain more NHL experience, etc. Doesn't need to happen in 3 months. If it takes us a couple more years to get up to Babcock's praise of Tampa depth, that's good too.

 

[thewave]

Roman Polak has been one of the best defenders in the league at the PK. Im not surprised that he has had a long career just based on that. Whether he still is the same is another question. And whether it makes up for his decline in other areas.

Great, it's too bad we don't get to carry around a 7th D that we can only play for the PK. Outside that he is a nasty awful hockey player. Stats can take a back seat whatever they say. The blind could see Polak is terrible.

 

[Minus Mitch]

Great, it's too bad we don't get to carry around a 7th D that we can only play for the PK. Outside that he is a nasty awful hockey player. Stats can take a back seat whatever they say. The blind could see Polak is terrible.

Guess multiple highly paid professionals are blind then. Really it’s not you it’s them.

 

[thewave]

Guess multiple highly paid professionals are blind then. Really it’s not you it’s them.

Probably won't be playing on this team by the TDL.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Don't forget that Polak was part of the Sharks' run to the finals. Sure, he was absolutely terrible paired with Dillon (a player not entirely dissimilar to Borgman), but he was there for sure.

 

[Morgs]

The numbers don’t tell you anything. How can you know that all scenarios are the same? That’s the dynamics of hockey and why it’s not a spreadsheet game. Who was on the opposition PP? Who was the shooter? Who else was on the ice? Did his goalie move exactly the same way on every PK so that you could measure? What was the score at the time of the goal? What building? Saying the % are equal tells nothing of the story.

The numbers mean nothing on their own of course. Without context it's basically just saying "this guy gets more shot attempts than this guy", or "this guy gets better chances than this guy. I mean people look at it and go "how is Cody Franson possibly better than Jaccob Slavin, underlying stats are stupid".

With context you see that Cody Franson is a sheltered 3rd pairing defenseman with high offensive zone starts, compared to Slavin who faces top-5 comp with hard zone starts. It's understandable why a guy like him will have worse stats than a guy like Franson.

Same goes for Polak. You compare him to what his comp/zone starts are and you see a guy who when he's on the ice we bleed shot attempts/HD chances, and a miserable penalty differential. All statistics that prove this guy can't cut it as a 3rd pairing defenseman in the NHL. Especially since his qoc is easier than most 3rd pairing defenseman because Babs knows he can't trust him.

 

[iliketheteam]

I don't like the prospect of losing a JVR or even Gardiner (next year) for nothing. Especially when we could use the assets to fill holes for the long term.

As for the team, I'm fine if we don't make any moves. I don't need to send Marner/Nylander or whatever for a D. Happy to let Dermott and Lily progress.

Whatever we do in the playoffs is fine, I will cheer until we win or are eliminated.

That's about it. All I want is to grab assets for those leaving/not part of the plan.
The next step happens when it happens. The prospects graduate, the young guys gain more NHL experience, etc. Doesn't need to happen in 3 months. If it takes us a couple more years to get up to Babcock's praise of Tampa depth, that's good too.

Seems level headed to me.

 

[Morgs]

You really should listen to a couple of Hainsey's interviews about being a young player in the NHL.

When Hainsey was a young player in the NHL, People were allowed to do anything except bertuzzi someone.

Patience means we'd let our young guys play through the struggles. Patience means that eventually these guys will hit their potential. Patience is not waiting for an oaf like Polak to be benched for better players, that's just stupid.