The Avalanche '96 to '02: Who was the better playoff performer - Sakic or Forsberg?

[daver]

Colorado was a hair behind Detroit during this timeframe as both teams were easily the most successful in the league. The Avs won two Cups and lost four other WCFs; three of which could be argued as the "Real SCF".

Do you think Sakic or Forsberg stands out from the other during this era in terms of playoff performances? Sakic has the clear best playoff run between the two and arguably the 2nd and 3rd best. Forsberg was more consistent and contributed more than offense than Sakic did. He was a plus 36 vs. Sakic's plus 12. Sakic was notably clutch with many OT winners and considerably more PP points.

I believe that it was a 1A/1B situation where Sakic usually faced the team's #1 line/offensive line while Forsberg faced the other team's shutdown line. Not sure if one or the other consistently faced the other team's best d-pairings.

I think it's too close to call but would give an edge to Sakic for his '96 run.

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[bobholly39]

Sakic:

Best individual run (96)
His 2 best runs = 2 cups (and 2 smythe worthy performances)
Problem is - his lows are also lower (2000 in particular stands out as disappointing)

Forsberg:

- He wasn't a top 2 (maybe not even a top 3?) most valuable player on either cup run (injury is a factor of course in 2001)
- Unlike Sakic, he has no bad run (nothing close to 2000)
- He is much more consistent overall because of that
- His best runs didn't really result in team success however

It comes down to what you like more, or what's more important to you.

If I had to pick one, i'd say Sakic since his best run is better, and he was the top ~1-2 player in both cup runs. But if I don't have to pick one, I'd probably be ok saying they're very comparable.

 

[overpass]

I believe that it was a 1A/1B situation where Sakic usually faced the team's #1 line/offensive line while Forsberg faced the other team's shutdown line. Not sure if one or the other consistently faced the other team's best d-pairings.

You have to separate the Marc Crawford years from the Bob Hartley years.

Under Crawford, Forsberg was the #1 C with the best wingers (Kamensky and Lemieux, the United Nations line), and drew the tough matchups. For example, he played against Fedorov's line when they played Detroit, and against Chris Chelios when they played Chicago.

Hartley used them more as you described. For example, Sakic's line faced the Modano line in back to back playoffs, and Forsberg went against Carbonneau.

 

[MadLuke]

surprisingly a little bit (or not) Colorado did win more playoff game during that time frame even if they were behind in the regular season, which arguably speak great about those 2 in the playoff.

It is hard to pass over the guy with 2 smythe worthy run playing them to the end, availability in the playoff is really great to have.

But in a per playoff game played basis, 1.18 ppg +36 Forsberg, 82 even strength points in 109 playoff games of that time... shooting 18% like it was the 80s, could see picking Forsberg easily.

A significant variable for those 2, was who got the best wingers, they rarely had a full top 6 of equal talents on both line, Lemieux-Kamensky vs young Deadmarsh-Jones being a classic case.

When Sakic got Tanguay-Hejduk he got a career year, the next time that Forsberg got them he also has a career year/playoff run and that keep it close for Sakic in the eye of some.

 

[VanIslander]

Every Canuck fan knows it is Forsberg; sorry Burnaby Joe.

 

[MadLuke]

Every Canuck fan knows it is Forsberg; sorry Burnaby Joe.

I wonder the majority opinion about Red Wings fans as well..

And it is not a terrible way to think about it, for the opposing playoff fanbase for which player they were more relieved from if it was announced they will miss tonight game...

 

[jigglysquishy]

Every Canuck fan knows it is Forsberg; sorry Burnaby Joe.

This Canucks series? Where Sakic had the last two game winners?

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Or this one? Where Sakic led in points, goals, and +-?

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=game&dateFrom=2001-04-12&dateTo=2001-04-18&gameType=3&sort=points,goals,assists&page=0&pageSize=50

 

[authentic]

Sakic has the greater individual runs and there’s no real wrong answer here but on a yearly basis I would choose to have the slightly better player on my team if both are healthy and in their primes and that’s Forsberg.

 

[MadLuke]

This Canucks series? Where Sakic had the last two game winners?

Sakic 11 goals-18 points, +7 in 10 playoff games against the Canuck (while playing the most minute by far among forward) and their fans saying something like this, is a good way to show how much fear Forsberg could strike to the opposition with is playstyle.

 

[Sadekuuro]

I wonder the majority opinion about Red Wings fans as well..

I can't speak for the majority, but for me, Forsberg was more threatening shift to shift. With their defense, Sakic could be somewhat contained -- and then he'd burn you for a goal out of nowhere anyway with his bullet wrist shot, but he didn't tilt the ice in the same way. Forsberg was also particularly good against Lidstrom; having all that strength along with the skill nullified some of Nick's strengths (I feel like Konstantinov played him better, but it's been a while...)

 

[Hallonbroder]

I’d also like to hear from Detroit and Stars fans. Can someone compile some quotes from the players they faced btw?

 

[Crosby2010]

It is a toss up really. But can you really go wrong with Sakic with two Smythe worthy runs - one in which he actually won it? 34 points in 1996, 26 points in 2001 and also noted that he did not have Forsberg with him the last two rounds. Forsberg did lead the playoffs in points in 1999 and 2002 despite not making the Cup final. Sakic still had a good postseason those years too. You can't beat Sakic's in 1996 as an individual run. There aren't many all-time that are better than that one to be honest.

For whatever reason Sakic seemed to do the playoff thing a little more quieter, but arguably more effective. While Forsberg seemed to terrorize teams a bit more and I think that's how he is remembered the most. He owned the Red Wings, and I am not sure Sakic had that sort of mystique with another franchise. I don't know, Sakic did still play at an elite level in 2001 without Forsberg the last two rounds. There is that bad postseason for Sakic in 2000 that was just woeful for his standards. Flip a coin, you can't go wrong with either of them but I think from a results-orientated angle it is Sakic.

 

[Video Nasty]

I think it’s a fairly easy choice. Sakic has at least the two best runs and his one stain (2000) can be considered a wash with Forsberg missing the entire back half of a Cup winning run (2001).

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I watched all but two of the Avs' playoff games between 1996 and 2002. It's Sakic although I love both.

 

[buffalowing88]

This one's interesting because I read the thread initially and thought, "this is Sakic, all the way". Then, before I could even read the responses, I was like, "wait, 02 Forsberg was magnificent". And then I couldn't decide.

I'll just listen to you guys who have more expertise on the matter. My heart is leaning 96 Sakic but I was still pretty young that year. My head tells me 02 Forsberg dominated the puck and the offensive zone in general in a pretty remarkable way.

 

[Dingo]

Forsberg's plus/minus lead on Joe always makes my jaw drop. But, it also goes along with how i saw them as players, then.

I mean, can we call it a draw, though? Pete couldnt drop PP wristers in the back of the net like Joe, but he really did dominate the puck better. But neither was a slouch in any department whatsoever.

Draw. Lets be friends.

 

[Michael Farkas]

It's not my favorite, I wish (not really) it was more of a Crosby type player, but I wonder if Sakic/Forsberg lines divide similarly with Rantanen/MacKinnon lines.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

This Canucks series? Where Sakic had the last two game winners?

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Or this one? Where Sakic led in points, goals, and +-?

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=game&dateFrom=2001-04-12&dateTo=2001-04-18&gameType=3&sort=points,goals,assists&page=0&pageSize=50

for canucks fans, and don’t forget that they also played us in upwards to ten rs games a year, the answer is whichever of sakic or forsberg had hejduk on their wing that year

 

[Gerulaitis]

Sakic 51/49 Forsberg

Sakic wins it by an inch due to his durability, consistent scoring, and leadership skills.

BUT:
when healthy, Forsberg can be considered the more dominant force in the postseason.

This is super close.

 

[Cruor]

So will we discuss Sakic's (and Roy's) playoff duds? You know those times where they just disappeared and left Peter with trying to carry the team? It's interesting how Forsberg gets docked for being injured or not playing while the Avs succeed, but Sakic & Roy just completely dropping the ball (as it were) come playoff time is brushed aside.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

not an argument but wanted to visualize this. constructed to the best of my ability from scoring logs.

ES linemates (ES pts in parentheses)

sakic

1996: deadmarsh and scott young (18)
1997: mixed bag — keith jones early on, kamensky and claude lemieux against detroit (13)
1998: probably deadmarsh and jones (1)
1999: hejduk and theo fleury for the first two rounds, mixed bag against dallas (12)
2000: hard to say (4)
2001: hejduk and tanguay, except against LA when they were with forsberg and sakic only had one ES pt (13)
2002: mostly hejduk and tanguay, but looks like they stacked forsberg, hejduk, and sakic against SJ (13)

forsberg

1996: kamensky and lemieux (15)
1997: deadmarsh and lemieux against chicago, kamensky and lemieux against edmonton, not sure about detroit but kamensky and lemieux seemed to be with sakic that series and forsberg only got one ES pt (9)
1998: kamensky and lemieux (6)
1999: kamensky and lemieux (13)
2000: deadmarsh and drury (9)
2001: nieminen and drury against vancouver, hejduk and tanguay against LA (9)
2002: mostly drury and reinprecht, as per above forsberg, hejduk, and sakic against SJ (20)

 

[tabness]

Too much talk as usual on the big star players (for the poll question Forsberg was the scariest as a Wings fan but this is no disrespect to Sakic).

But those battles had the unsung guys come up on both sides. Adam Deadmarsh was an absolute Wings killer, hated that mofo (even when he went to LA he smoked us lol). Stephane Yelle was the true Avs defensive center and did a great job against our big boys. I recently watched the 1996 playoff run and Sandis Ozolinsh was so good and so critical, aesthetically he was sooo smooth, reminded me a bit of the great Paul Coffey at his best. I remember Drury and Hejduk coming out of nowhere to have huge impact as rookies, Hejduk especially I would always make fun of his name (Hedge Duck and... worse), but I made fun of him because he broke my heart too many times, so underrated, he was the perfect compliment for the Avs superstar centers and it isn't a big surprise that they had their big years with him on the wing. Jon Klemm saved a couple goals. Even a guy like John Michael Liles had real good showings against the Wings later/after the rivalry, still remember his name to this day lol

Marc Crawford was a real good coach, the Avs system was quite effective against the Wings, Bob Hartley made the Avs a bit more offensive and went to a three line team mostly, and I chalk up the success he had against the Wings to Ranford imploding, being figured out and taken advantage of by Colorado in 1999, and the Wings injuries in 2000, moreso than himself.

 

[Gorskyontario]

So will we discuss Sakic's (and Roy's) playoff duds? You know those times where they just disappeared and left Peter with trying to carry the team? It's interesting how Forsberg gets docked for being injured or not playing while the Avs succeed, but Sakic & Roy just completely dropping the ball (as it were) come playoff time is brushed aside.

Outside of the 2000 playoffs, where Sakic was playing hurt. When was he bad in the playoffs?

 

[Cruor]

Outside of the 2000 playoffs, where Sakic was playing hurt. When was he bad in the playoffs?

I grouped them together in my post but 1999 & 2002 feels like two years they should have done much better. 1999 really they should have won the whole thing.

On balance they really should have won at least another Cup.

 

[Albatros]

Sakic was exceptionally good, Forsberg a force of nature.