The Atlantic Division

[Leafs at Knight]

To be fair, not saying this was you. But if you read Hf all off-season it was just full of people putting Boston at 4-6th in in the division. They were done, Chara, bergeron, krejci were old and Rask sucked etc.. etc... Funny enough most people had MTL/OTT penciled in to 3rd.

It's just expected that bruins fans be peacocking a bit right now.

I don't think a lot of Bruins fans even expected them to be this good and hot right now; my one Bruins friend is in cloud 9 right now. I was reading the Bruins board after the Leafs beat them b2b, and even after that many people were done with Rask and wanted him gone, same with Chara. Crazy how good both are still.

 

[LeafsNation75]

They were last year, it would be hard not to admire their playoff run with all the adversity they played under. So they actually won a playoff rd this decade, 2 actually, and more before this. Not sure why you are so desperate for my validation of who I see as Ontario's team. Tell you what, win a playoff rd atleast once a decade. Then we will talk. But until then, go post where ever you are posting now.

Personally I say for Ottawa to be known as Ontario's team maybe they should defeat the Leafs in a playoff series when it matters the most. The fact that Toronto is 4-0 against them in the playoffs means they are still Ontario's team and I don't care if their last playoff series was 2004.

 

[joe dirte]

They were last year, it would be hard not to admire their playoff run with all the adversity they played under. So they actually won a playoff rd this decade, 2 actually, and more before this. Not sure why you are so desperate for my validation of who I see as Ontario's team. Tell you what, win a playoff rd atleast once a decade. Then we will talk. But until then, go post where ever you are posting now.

they're garbage?

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Ottawa's not even Ottawas team.

 

[Tryblot]

It hilarious how hard it is for some people to admit that Toronto is a good team. 6th overall in the league makes them just "average" oh Lord have mercy.

9th.

 

[RDTBay4]

Bruins peak early, get BTFO in first round. Marchand misses at least 1 playoff game due to suspension.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

9th.

they were 6th on Wednesday when he posted that.

 

[Tryblot]

they were 6th on Wednesday when he posted that.

I realize that, but to make such a big deal for being "6th in the league" which a lot of leafs were posting about. It took two nights of hockey to fall three spots.

 

[drewjenks]

There is a misconception on HF that keeps popping up this season about the Atlantic division. While it is a weak division overall, the misconception is that the top 3 teams (and Toronto more specifically) are where they are points wise because they get to “beat on” the five other Atlantic teams, all of which are struggling to one degree or another.

This has been repeated numerous times on these boards and is used to disregard the top 3 Atlantic teams because they supposedly “benefit from beating easy competition all the time”. I didn’t know who benefited the most by getting to “beat on” those teams, I just knew it wasn’t Toronto, so I went over the numbers and this is what they revealed about who has benefited the most from the Atlantic bottom 5.

These are each teams games/results/pts and % these pts are of their total on the season.

31. Nashville. 2-0 (4pts of a possible 4pts) those 4pts account for 5.63% of Tampas 71Pts.
30. Vegas. 3-2-1 (7/12pts) 9.46% of 74Pts.
29. Winnipeg. 3-2-1 (7/12pts) 9.59% of 73Pts.
28. Colorado. 3-3-1 (7/14pts) 11.29% of 62Pts.
27. Anaheim. 3-3-1 (7/14pts) 62pts - 11.29%.
26. Calgary. 3-3-1 (7/14pts) 11.29% of 62Pts.
25. Edmonton. 3-4 (6/17pts) 12.00% of 50Pts.
24. Arizona. 2-4 (4/12pts) 12.12% of 33Pts.
23. Ottawa. 2-5-2 (6/18pts) 13.33% of 45Pts.
22. Toronto. 4-3-1 (9/16pts) 13.42% of 67pts.
21. Vancouver. 3-4-1 (7/16pts) 14.58% of 48Pts.
20. Washington. 5-3 (10/16pts) 14.93% of 67pts.
19. Buffalo. 2-4-2 (6/16pts) 15.79% of 38pts.
18. NYI. 5-3 (10/16) 17.24% of 58Pts.
17. Philadelphia. 5-3-1 (11/18) 18.64% of 59Pts.
16. Dallas. 6-0-1 (13/14pts) 19.70% of 66pts.
15. St.Louis. 7-2 (14/18pts) 20.90% of 67pts.
14. Chicago. 6-2 (12/16pts) 21.43% of 56Pts.
13. San Jose. 6-1-2 (14/18pts) 21.88% of 64Pts.
12. Detroit. 5-5-1 (11/22pts) 22.00% of 50pts.
11. Minnesota. 7-2 (14/18pts) 22.22% of 63Pts.
10. Pittsburgh. 7-1 (14/16pts) 22.22% of 63Pts.
9. Los Angeles. 7-0 (14/14pts) 22.58% of 62Pts.
8. Tampa Bay. 8-2-1 (17/22) 22.67% of 75Pts.
7. NYR. 6-3-1 (13/20) 23.64% of 55Pts.
6. Columbus. 7-3 (14/20pts) 24.14% of 58Pts.
5. Florida. 6-2-1 (13/18pts) 25.00% of 52Pts.
4. New Jersey. 7-2-2 (16/22) 62pts - 25.81% of 62Pts.
——-
3. Boston. 9-0-1 (19/20) 72pts - 26.39% of 72Pts.
2. Carolina. 10-1 (20/22pts) 35.09% of 57Pts.

And with 36% of 50Pts coming from playing against the 4 other bottom 5 Atlantic Division teams;

1. Montreal. 9-2 (18/22) 36.00% of 50Pts.

To summarize, the top 10 teams to benefit from playing those bottom 5 up to this point in the season (60-65% into the season) are; 5 Metro, 4 Atlantic, 1 Pacific. And Toronto who is primarily accused of this “benefit” amongst the top 3 Atlantic teams is bottom 10, and the only one of the 3 not in the top 10.

Are these results surprising to you?and do you think the schedule makers should consider what has happened in the Atlantic for next seasons schedule (for example, some teams have played the Atlantic 18 times while Nashville has played them only 5 times (and only twice against the bottom 5). Had Nashville played them as much as Winnipeg, Nashville could be 8pts up on the Jets right now.

Will it not all balance out at the end of the season anyways?

For example, won't the Leafs end up....

1. Playing each team in their own division the same number of times?
2. Playing each team in their conference (other division) the same amount of times?
3. Playing each team in the opposing conference the same amount of times?

Doesn't every team end up with this exact same breakdown after 82? (Not the exact same schedule, just the same breakdown for their own division, conference & opposing conference?)

 

[drewjenks]

There is a misconception on HF that keeps popping up this season about the Atlantic division. While it is a weak division overall, the misconception is that the top 3 teams (and Toronto more specifically) are where they are points wise because they get to “beat on” the five other Atlantic teams, all of which are struggling to one degree or another.

This has been repeated numerous times on these boards and is used to disregard the top 3 Atlantic teams because they supposedly “benefit from beating easy competition all the time”. I didn’t know who benefited the most by getting to “beat on” those teams, I just knew it wasn’t Toronto, so I went over the numbers and this is what they revealed about who has benefited the most from the Atlantic bottom 5.

These are each teams games/results/pts and % these pts are of their total on the season.

31. Nashville. 2-0 (4pts of a possible 4pts) those 4pts account for 5.63% of Tampas 71Pts.
30. Vegas. 3-2-1 (7/12pts) 9.46% of 74Pts.
29. Winnipeg. 3-2-1 (7/12pts) 9.59% of 73Pts.
28. Colorado. 3-3-1 (7/14pts) 11.29% of 62Pts.
27. Anaheim. 3-3-1 (7/14pts) 62pts - 11.29%.
26. Calgary. 3-3-1 (7/14pts) 11.29% of 62Pts.
25. Edmonton. 3-4 (6/17pts) 12.00% of 50Pts.
24. Arizona. 2-4 (4/12pts) 12.12% of 33Pts.
23. Ottawa. 2-5-2 (6/18pts) 13.33% of 45Pts.
22. Toronto. 4-3-1 (9/16pts) 13.42% of 67pts.
21. Vancouver. 3-4-1 (7/16pts) 14.58% of 48Pts.
20. Washington. 5-3 (10/16pts) 14.93% of 67pts.
19. Buffalo. 2-4-2 (6/16pts) 15.79% of 38pts.
18. NYI. 5-3 (10/16) 17.24% of 58Pts.
17. Philadelphia. 5-3-1 (11/18) 18.64% of 59Pts.
16. Dallas. 6-0-1 (13/14pts) 19.70% of 66pts.
15. St.Louis. 7-2 (14/18pts) 20.90% of 67pts.
14. Chicago. 6-2 (12/16pts) 21.43% of 56Pts.
13. San Jose. 6-1-2 (14/18pts) 21.88% of 64Pts.
12. Detroit. 5-5-1 (11/22pts) 22.00% of 50pts.
11. Minnesota. 7-2 (14/18pts) 22.22% of 63Pts.
10. Pittsburgh. 7-1 (14/16pts) 22.22% of 63Pts.
9. Los Angeles. 7-0 (14/14pts) 22.58% of 62Pts.
8. Tampa Bay. 8-2-1 (17/22) 22.67% of 75Pts.
7. NYR. 6-3-1 (13/20) 23.64% of 55Pts.
6. Columbus. 7-3 (14/20pts) 24.14% of 58Pts.
5. Florida. 6-2-1 (13/18pts) 25.00% of 52Pts.
4. New Jersey. 7-2-2 (16/22) 62pts - 25.81% of 62Pts.
——-
3. Boston. 9-0-1 (19/20) 72pts - 26.39% of 72Pts.
2. Carolina. 10-1 (20/22pts) 35.09% of 57Pts.

And with 36% of 50Pts coming from playing against the 4 other bottom 5 Atlantic Division teams;

1. Montreal. 9-2 (18/22) 36.00% of 50Pts.

To summarize, the top 10 teams to benefit from playing those bottom 5 up to this point in the season (60-65% into the season) are; 5 Metro, 4 Atlantic, 1 Pacific. And Toronto who is primarily accused of this “benefit” amongst the top 3 Atlantic teams is bottom 10, and the only one of the 3 not in the top 10.

Are these results surprising to you?and do you think the schedule makers should consider what has happened in the Atlantic for next seasons schedule (for example, some teams have played the Atlantic 18 times while Nashville has played them only 5 times (and only twice against the bottom 5). Had Nashville played them as much as Winnipeg, Nashville could be 8pts up on the Jets right now.

TBH I'm not really concerned with the Leafs position this year.

We have the youngest core in the league & it's one of the best.....Name any other team whose 4 best players are 19, 20, 21 & 23.......?

Some teams have great prospect pools. Some of which are better than the Leafs. That's fair to admit. But prospects are far from guaranteed to lead a team at the NHL level. Matthews, Marner, Nylander & Rielly have proven they can.

I will say that Winnipeg is pretty damn close with Scheifele, Laine, Ehlers & Trouba, even though are are 1 year older on average. Winnipeg has good prospects too.

I will also say that Montreal core is in last place. Their prospects are also in last place.
I don't say this to be rude.......I'm just being honest........which is thoroughly enjoyable.

 

[bionic]

I realize that, but to make such a big deal for being "6th in the league" which a lot of leafs were posting about. It took two nights of hockey to fall three spots.

Are you kidding? Even if they were tenth in the league that still makes them above average Nd the point still stands. Jeesh, take it easy with the nit picking.

 

[Sypher04]

The point percentage difference between 9th and 6th is pretty small. Every one of those teams up there are good teams.

 

[Wiggleboom]

The Leafs are a very good (not top/elite) team on the rise. There aren't many other teams' group of players and prospects I would pick over them. Boston and Tampa are top/elite teams, both of which also have good young players/prospects and will likely remain at/near the top for at least another 4-5 years.

The rest of the division is trash. Montreal is at the bottom of the league IMO for current/future team prospects (Vancouver is close).

 

[LeafsNation75]

The Leafs are a very good (not top/elite) team on the rise. There aren't many other teams' group of players and prospects I would pick over them. Boston and Tampa are top/elite teams, both of which also have good young players/prospects and will likely remain at/near the top for at least another 4-5 years.

The rest of the division is trash. Montreal is at the bottom of the league IMO for current/future team prospects (Vancouver is close).

Going into this season Boston was not considered an elite team and I still don't consider them to be in that category. Yes they are on a very impressive run, however it's not going to last and eventually they will be losing a lot more games in regulation.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Going into this season Boston was not considered an elite team and I still don't consider them to be in that category. Yes they are on a very impressive run, however it's not going to last and eventually they will be losing a lot more games in regulation.

Their play & results are elite, numbers don't lie. Even if their results will normalize a bit more, they're still much more elite than Toronto is.

 

[Cotton]

Will it not all balance out at the end of the season anyways?

For example, won't the Leafs end up....

1. Playing each team in their own division the same number of times?
2. Playing each team in their conference (other division) the same amount of times?
3. Playing each team in the opposing conference the same amount of times?

Doesn't every team end up with this exact same breakdown after 82? (Not the exact same schedule, just the same breakdown for their own division, conference & opposing conference?)

It will balance out, but the argument used against them was that the Leafs obtained the points they had largely by winning against the easy competition in the Atlantic, I showed that was false. And while that was true for Boston, and to a lesser degree Tampa (who is really the only elite team in the east) the Leafs were on the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

[Cotton]

Their play & results are elite, numbers don't lie. Even if their results will normalize a bit more, they're still much more elite than Toronto is.

They are much more elite than Toronto is? First of all, neither Toronto or Boston are elite teams. Secondly, Boston has had one of the softer schedules and are truly the one team in the Atlantic that the argument this thread debunks about Toronto actually applies to.

Look at thier record by division. The only real separation exists in Boston’s record vs Buffalo, Ottawa, Montreal and Detroit. Their records are comparable otherwise.

Edit;
Bos 37GP 21-10-6 48Pts
Tbl 40GP 27-11-2 56Pts
Tor 44GP 26-14-4 56Pts

This is their records against everyone but the Atlantic. The 7 game difference is because Boston has played the West less. If we assume they win 4 of those 7 games (which is about what they are averaging vs the Western conference) we are tied in points. The difference comes from their 10-0-1 record against Buffalo, Ottawa, Montreal and Detroit.

But one team is waaaaay elite, lol.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Their play & results are elite, numbers don't lie. Even if their results will normalize a bit more, they're still much more elite than Toronto is.

Their recent play has been that if you want to say it. However you have to admit going into the season no one called the Bruins an elite team and this recent run of success will not last until the playoffs.

It also helps that their schedule has been favourable playing a lot of the worse teams in the league.

Look at how hot the Lightning started and they have slowed down recently and that will eventually happen to the Bruins.

 

[LeafsNation75]

They are much more elite than Toronto is? First of all, neither Toronto or Boston are elite teams. Secondly, Boston has had one of the softer schedules and are truly the one team in the Atlantic that the argument this thread debunks about Toronto actually applies to.

Look at thier record by division. The only real separation exists in Boston’s record vs Buffalo, Ottawa, Montreal and Detroit. Their records are comparable otherwise.

Boston played Montreal what 3 times in the span of 8 days. Plus how many times did they get to play other struggling teams like Buffalo and Ottawa?

 

[BruinLVGA]

View attachment 96969

They are much more elite than Toronto is? First of all, neither Toronto or Boston are elite teams. Secondly, Boston has had one of the softer schedules and are truly the one team in the Atlantic that the argument this thread debunks about Toronto actually applies to.

Look at thier record by division. The only real separation exists in Boston’s record vs Buffalo, Ottawa, Montreal and Detroit. Their records are comparable otherwise.

What is your definition of an elite team, performance wise?

 

[Wiggleboom]

Boston is not elite right now? That's crazy talk. They are 27-4-4 in their last 35 games. That is not some short-term blip like Philly winning 10 in a row. That's almost half a season.

Who cares what people said coming into the season? Many picked Edmonton to win the Cup this year. Winnipeg and Vegas are top/elite teams as well right now (with Boston, Tampa and Nashville). I have no idea how the rest of the year or the playoffs will shake out but these 5 teams are undoubtedly the elite of the league (with an asterisk to Pittsburgh because of their recent play and recent history of being the best team in the league).

 

[JianYang]

TBH I'm not really concerned with the Leafs position this year.

We have the youngest core in the league & it's one of the best.....Name any other team whose 4 best players are 19, 20, 21 & 23.......?

Some teams have great prospect pools. Some of which are better than the Leafs. That's fair to admit. But prospects are far from guaranteed to lead a team at the NHL level. Matthews, Marner, Nylander & Rielly have proven they can.

I will say that Winnipeg is pretty damn close with Scheifele, Laine, Ehlers & Trouba, even though are are 1 year older on average. Winnipeg has good prospects too.

I will also say that Montreal core is in last place. Their prospects are also in last place.
I don't say this to be rude.......I'm just being honest........which is thoroughly enjoyable.

Morrissey and hellebuyck are in the 23-24 age range, so they still are on the very young side, and guys I would consider them part of the future of that team who belong on that list. Both guys play a leading role in the jets success.

 

[BruinLVGA]

A few numbers about "elite", games played vs what type of opponents, and the difference between Boston and Toronto:

1. Bruins' total games vs teams currently in playoffs position: 27.
Breakdown: vs East 9-3-3... vs West 8-2-2. Total 17-5-5 (= 722 pts%).
Percentage out of total games: 52% (27 out of 52).

Toronto's total games vs teams currently in playoffs position: 26.
Breakdown: vs East 6-6-1... vs West 7-5-1. Total 13-11-2 (= 538 pts%).
Percentage out of total games: 46% (26 out of 56).

2. Other team stats:
- points %: Boston 712 (2nd best)... Toronto 616 (9th best)...
- points pace: Boston 117... Toronto 101
- goals for / game: Boston 3.27 (4th)... Toronto 3.16 (6th)
- goals against / game: Boston 2.35 (1st)... Toronto 2.77 (11th)
- PP%: Boston 22.0 (6th)... Toronto 20.6 (16th)
- PK%: Boston 82.9 (4th)... Toronto 82.6 (7th)
- shot against / game: Boston 29.1 (1st)... Toronto 33.9 (28th)

3. Individual stats:

- ppg, top 10, combined teams: 1. Marchand 1.31... 2. Bergeron & Pastrnak 0.98... 4. Matthews 0.93... 5. Krejci & Heinen 0.79... 7. Nylander 0.73... 8. Spooner 0.69... 9. Krug 0.67... 10. Marner 0.66.

- goal tending: Rask 925% 2.09... Andersen 922% 2.62...

 

[BruinLVGA]

Boston is not elite right now? That's crazy talk. They are 27-4-4 in their last 35 games. That is not some short-term blip like Philly winning 10 in a row. That's almost half a season.

Who cares what people said coming into the season? Many picked Edmonton to win the Cup this year. Winnipeg and Vegas are top/elite teams as well right now (with Boston, Tampa and Nashville). I have no idea how the rest of the year or the playoffs will shake out but these 5 teams are undoubtedly the elite of the league (with an asterisk to Pittsburgh because of their recent play and recent history of being the best team in the league).

And it's not the 27-4-4 stretch ONLY, which is roughly 43% of an entire season... It's virtually every other number too...

 

[BruinLVGA]

They are much more elite than Toronto is? First of all, neither Toronto or Boston are elite teams. Secondly, Boston has had one of the softer schedules and are truly the one team in the Atlantic that the argument this thread debunks about Toronto actually applies to.

Look at thier record by division. The only real separation exists in Boston’s record vs Buffalo, Ottawa, Montreal and Detroit. Their records are comparable otherwise.

Edit;
Bos 37GP 21-10-6 48Pts
Tbl 40GP 27-11-2 56Pts
Tor 44GP 26-14-4 56Pts

This is their records against everyone but the Atlantic. The 7 game difference is because Boston has played the West less. If we assume they win 4 of those 7 games (which is about what they are averaging vs the Western conference) we are tied in points. The difference comes from their 10-0-1 record against Buffalo, Ottawa, Montreal and Detroit.

But one team is waaaaay elite, lol.

And yet, I just posted the numbers in relation to playing the other 15 playoffs teams (I think it's self explanatory that they're the better teams, or are they not?) as of now and the difference between Boston and Toronto is a 722% vs 538%, or from a 118 points pace vs a 88 points pace. Do you think that a 17-5-5 is pretty similar to a 13-11-2?

EDIT: we also are 16-6-3 vs teams OUTSIDE the playoffs as of now, that's a 700 pts%. You are 19-8-3 vs the same, so a 683%.
We did BETTER vs stronger teams (which we played more than the weaker ones) than vs the weaker ones. You did WORSE vs the better teams (which you played LESS than the weaker ones) but BETTER vs the worse teams.
Bottom line, vs bad teams (= non playoffs) we are marginally better than you (700 vs 683)... And vs the best teams we are quite astronomically better than you (722 vs 538). I think this shows very well how we are way more elite than you are, does it not?

Furthermore, I posted the most important team stats, and they are all in favor of Boston rather than Toronto. Last but not least, team wise, I posted a table (I found it on another team's forum, not my product) that shows that defense wise, Boston is probably the #1 team.

Heck, even individual stats are all in favor of the Bruins...

I am afraid that the Leafs are not that close to the Bruins.

PS: I asked you already what is your definition of "elite team", but you didn't answer. I would like to know so that I can go and a) check if your parameters seem logical and b) go check the Bruins numbers to see if they fit said parameters. So, again, what are your parameters to define a team as "elite"?