Pre-Game Talk: The All Purpose Off Day Thread | Simon Recalled

[Pens x]

Can we at least agree that you don't jam Kuhnhackl on the currently-best-player in the league's right wing if there are literally any other options? That's just being willfully stupid.

This.

This just isn’t putting yourself in the best position to win. I’m tired of the oooo we need to spread out the talent! I’d rather have 2 good lines than 3 infective lines.

 

[Nakawick]

Haha the team was on fire on Saturday afternoon and 48 hours later this place is losing its mind about line combos. I love it.

Lol, members of this board go from threepeat to 1st overall pick from period to period.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Oh absolutely. I can't even make up an excuse for that being a reasonable idea. Sully is looking at Kuhn like a really poor man's Hornqvist and trying to keep the line's identity similar, but it's obviously stupid.

I would even agree with this train of thought if Hornqvist wasn't obviously 1000x the player that Kuhn is and in no way comparable. Has to be blatantly obvious to even the most thickheaded cretin on the planet. And I'm not even the biggest Horns fanboy out there.

It's like saying "Hey man... you know... that Malkin guy is playing way too well. We'd better Harrison Bergeron this guy somehow. I know! Let's put the worst player on the team on his wing!"

Sometimes I swear this team hates Malkin. Like... crossing eras, even.

 

[KIRK]

How in the world are you really looking at Sully and Guerin and JR and coming to this conclusion. They have "created a world" that the Penguins have won the last two Stanley Cups and are in position to challenge for a 3rd. That "infinite stupidity" has our stars playing some of best hockey they have lately and the Pens are 7-3 in the last 10 and have been very good in 2018.

I think you need some perspective on where the pens are and that the NHL is a league where 31 teams are competing to be the best. We have a coach and a GM that have come in to an organization that was on the decline and CONSISTENTLY done the right thing to get the penguins over the edge. These statements you are making are just ridiculous. It's the regular season, coaches job is to get the team into, and ready for, the playoffs. I get that kuhn in top six is not ideal and Reaves experiment is ultimately proving to be a disappointment. But the guys up top have EARNED some leeway here.

Dan Bylsma and Ray Shero once did the right thing. They once earned leeway. But, there's a difference between leeway (two injuries putting Bryan Rust on Sid's RW) and blind latitude (two injuries putting Kuhn into the top six). The former earns a pass for a time. The latter is inexcusable under any circumstance. Perhaps you need some perspective on that.

EDIT: I saw years of Sid's and Geno's primes pissed away because of the 'leeway' people gifted with Sid and Geno 'earned'. There too few of those years left to even piss away one now.

I'd like to see:

Simon-Crosby-Kessel
Hagelin-Malkin-ZAR
Guentzel-Sheahan-Rust
Bender-Trash-Scrub

Why the hell are we gifting ZAR a spot in the top 6? A dog with different fleas . . .

 

[Gurglesons]

I can complain about roster and line combos with the best of them, but it does feel bizarre to be one of the calmer ones right now when many posters were acting like I was a lunatic this summer.

Kuhnhackl and Sprong aside, everything else is pretty reasonable. We know that cap space is an issue right around the deadline, so some of these decisions might be related to that.

The funny part will be when we win 2 of 3 and everyone flipping out is talking about how great Rust is and acting like everyone disagreeing is a lunatic..

 

[KIRK]

Haha the team was on fire on Saturday afternoon and 48 hours later this place is losing its mind about line combos. I love it.

Sully losing his mind first will do that.

The funny part will be when we win 2 of 3 and everyone flipping out is talking about how great Rust is and acting like everyone disagreeing is a lunatic..

How much you wanna bet on the Pens winning 2 of 3 with Saturday's lineup and usage against Vegas and then at STL and Dallas this weekend? I'll take the under, just tell me how much . . .

Can we at least agree that you don't jam Kuhnhackl on the currently-best-player in the league's right wing if there are literally any other options? That's just being willfully stupid.

Apparently not. It's so comical in terms of how some people are looking at it that I now have to recognize @Pens x as a voice of reason on this subject.

 

[KIRK]

I was told he isn't fond of his game and I asked about him being cocky and got a couple shoulder shrugs...

And no "e" with tomato because I'm extra lazy.

Maybe Sully needed to win an extra cup before managing his roster like Dan Bylsma?

 

[Shaffer]

Why the hell are we gifting ZAR a spot in the top 6? A dog with different fleas . . .

Why? Because I don’t want Kuhnhackl there.

ZAR being “gifted” was a callup. He’s earned his right to play with the big club. I agree that he has to fight for his right to play in the top 6, but we are missing two top 6 fowards right now. On the current roster, I’d prefer Rust(who was playing 4RW) and ZAR as the replacements rather than Rust and Kuhnhackl.

 

[KIRK]

Why? Because I don’t want Kuhnhackl there.

ZAR being “gifted” was a callup. He’s earned his right to play with the big club. I agree that he has to fight for his right to play in the top 6, but we are missing two top 6 fowards right now. On the current roster, I’d prefer Rust(who was playing 4RW) and ZAR as the replacements rather than Rust and Kuhnhackl.

ZAR being the callup is on Guerin mostly, but also on Sully for his input on who he didn't want and on JR for being quiet as that ****show happened.

That said, we have 2 healthy top 9 RW's. Both should be playing in the top 6 until another top 9 RW returns. This Kuhn and ZAR in the top 6 isn't like Rust on LW. Hell, it isn't even Scott ****** Wilson with Geno and Kessel. It's 10000000X worse.

 

[Shaffer]

ZAR being the callup is on Guerin mostly, but also on Sully for his input on who he didn't want and on JR for being quiet as that ****show happened.

That said, we have 2 healthy top 9 RW's. Both should be playing in the top 6 until another top 9 RW returns. This Kuhn and ZAR in the top 6 isn't like Rust on LW. Hell, it isn't even Scott ****** Wilson with Geno and Kessel. It's 10000000X worse.

What’s so bad about ZAR? I agree it should have been Sprong and all . . . but it’s not like ZAR didn’t deserve it. Dude had 20 points in 20 games before getting the callup. So what, Guerin called up a player to help out with the physicality that Hornqvist brought. Sprong should’ve been called up when Sheary went down, though.

What’s your beaf with ZAR? Like I’m seriously asking.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Isn't ideal? Try 'neuters Geno'. Saying that isn't ideal is like @ColePens saying @Ogrezilla's shoe collection isn't ideal. It's understatement of the year territory.

hey I actually bought TWO new pairs of shoes last week. They were like 30 dollars each, but still.

 

[KIRK]

What’s so bad about ZAR? I agree it should have been Sprong and all . . . but it’s not like ZAR didn’t deserve it. Dude had 20 points in 20 games before getting the callup. So what, Guerin called up a player to help out with the physicality that Hornqvist brought. Sprong should’ve been called up when Sheary went down, though.

What’s your beaf with ZAR? Like I’m seriously asking.

I couldn't give two tiddly winks about ZAR one way or the other. Better than Kuhn. Worse than Kuhn. Whatever. Neither should sniff top 6 duty. It's enough to think one could sniff top 9 duty. In the end, ZAR is the dog with different fleas. You want to tell me that's not as bad as Kuhn. Fine. No problem. But, to go from there to suggesting in earnest that ZAR should be L2 RW is a bridge too far.

 

[KIRK]

hey I actually bought TWO new pairs of shoes last week. They were like 30 dollars each, but still.

I'll defer on replies to @ColePens . . .

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I dunno if anyone has a problem with ZAR. I'm glad he got a look and was rewarded for his efforts in the A. That helps build confidence and shows that hard work and production is rewarded... well... for MOST players.

I think the issue is that this team's identity should be speed, skill, tenacity and even more speed. ZAR is another guy that doesn't really fit that mold. Though it's been one game and I hope he can show more than he did. Dude skates like late-stage Ryan Malone, though.

 

[Shaffer]

I couldn't give two tiddly winks about ZAR one way or the other. Better than Kuhn. Worse than Kuhn. Whatever. Neither should sniff top 6 duty. It's enough to think one could sniff top 9 duty. In the end, ZAR is the dog with different fleas. You want to tell me that's not as bad as Kuhn. Fine. No problem. But, to go from there to suggesting in earnest that ZAR should be L2 RW is a bridge too far.

What if no one suggested Hagelin-Hornqvist with Geno? Would we have had this hot streak or would we be out of the playoffs right now? In times of injuries, different things have to be tried. I’ll admit, Kessel-Rust being the first and second line RW right now is probably the smartest decision, but will Sully put Kessel with Crosby or Geno right now? If he plans on leaving Kessel with the third line, we need another top 6 RW. In that case, it’s either Simon/ZAR/Kuhn. Ideally you want Kessel with Crosby or Geno, but is Sully going to do that?

Simon-Crosby-
Hagelin-Malkin-
Guentzel-Sheahan-
Kuhnhackl-Rowney-Reaves

That’s the lineup without Rust/Kessel/ZAR at RW. The best fits for each player would all be with Geno IMO.

It’s too bad Sully is too stubborn to put Kessel with Crosby.

 

[Shaffer]

Another lineup I’d like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Simon
Hagelin-Malkin-Rust
ZAR-Sheahan-Kessel
Kuhnhackl-Rowney-Reaves

now I wouldn’t like the 4th line, but the top 6 doesn’t look too shabby . . .

 

[KIRK]

What if no one suggested Hagelin-Hornqvist with Geno? Would we have had this hot streak or would we be out of the playoffs right now? In times of injuries, different things have to be tried. I’ll admit, Kessel-Rust being the first and second line RW right now is probably the smartest decision, but will Sully put Kessel with Crosby or Geno right now? If he plans on leaving Kessel with the third line, we need another top 6 RW. In that case, it’s either Simon/ZAR/Kuhn. Ideally you want Kessel with Crosby or Geno, but is Sully going to do that?

Simon-Crosby-
Hagelin-Malkin-
Guentzel-Sheahan-
Kuhnhackl-Rowney-Reaves

That’s the lineup without Rust/Kessel/ZAR at RW. The best fits for each player would all be with Geno IMO.

It’s too bad Sully is too stubborn to put Kessel with Crosby.

1. You're comparing ZAR to Hagelin or Hornqvist?

2. You're comparing ZAR and Kuhn to Simon?

3. You could leave Phil on a 3rd line . . . Jake-Sid-Simon and Hags-Geno-Rust. Or, you could put Phil in the top 6. Either is a solution that makes the best of a bad situation. Kuhn on Geno's RW. ZAR on Geno's RW. That crap takes a bad situation and makes it exponentially worse, as evidenced by the game on Saturday when it was Kuhn with Geno and Hags and then HMK.

4. What Sully ultimately is doing here is completely neutering Geno in the unfounded hope that a Jake-Sheahan-Phil line can be an ES force, something for which some people here think Sully is above criticism because of the leeway he's earned or something.

 

[Tom Hanks]

There is no scenario that either ZAR or Kuhnhackl needs to be in the top 6.

Bringing up Sprong would create a scenario that neither had to be in the top 9.

There are a few combos that we could win games without the stars going into beast mode.

I guess Sully likes to challenge our big boys.

 

[Shaffer]

1. You're comparing ZAR to Hagelin or Hornqvist?

2. You're comparing ZAR and Kuhn to Simon?

3. You could leave Phil on a 3rd line . . . Jake-Sid-Simon and Hags-Geno-Rust. Or, you could put Phil in the top 6. Either is a solution that makes the best of a bad situation. Kuhn on Geno's RW. ZAR on Geno's RW. That crap takes a bad situation and makes it exponentially worse, as evidenced by the game on Saturday when it was Kuhn with Geno and Hags and then HMK.

4. What Sully ultimately is doing here is completely neutering Geno in the unfounded hope that a Jake-Sheahan-Phil line can be an ES force, something for which some people here think Sully is above criticism because of the leeway he's earned or something.

1. No, I’m saying different things can be tried.

2. No, I’m saying that they are the options to be one of the top 9 RW with Kessel and Rust

3. You probably didn’t see my newest post as you were typing this, but I did those exact lines. I just wish Sprong was called up so we’d have faith in all RW’s and only have to deal with Kuhn on LW.

4. Guentzel-Sheahan-Kessel has been weird. Sheahan-Kessel did click a little, but other than that they were complete shit. Guentzel did have one very good game when he kind of rested, but he doesn’t work with Sheahan-Kessel.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I like Sheahan better than most but if this team is attempting some sort of HBK 2.0 thing based around him then they are gonna be waiting awhile. Like... until they are playing golf.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Maybe Sully needed to win an extra cup before managing his roster like Dan Bylsma?

I'm not going to throw Sullivan under the bus, but the Sprong and Kuhn silliness has me pissed off.

Kuhn shouldn't even be in the league, let alone on the second line.

As a player (not person), I literally f***ing hate Kuhn and want to wretch every time I see him on the ice. He goes agt everything I enjoy about the sport, and I'm tired of people associating blocked shots with a player being good/valuable.

 

[ColePens]

I'm not going to throw Sullivan under the bus, but the Sprong and Kuhn silliness has me pissed off.

Kuhn shouldn't even be in the league, let alone on the second line.

As a player (not person), I literally ****ing hate Kuhn and want to wretch every time I see him on the ice. He goes agt everything I enjoy about the sport, and I'm tired of people associating blocked shots with a player being good/valuable.

I think it's imperative to have a progression when analyzing coaches/GMs/etc. There are some red flags out there with Sully. That doesn't make him the worst coach ever as some people do. I think your take here is honest and fair. No bus throw yet, but definitely something to write down and remember.

Everyone is always so fascinated with being the first to hate a player, coach, or whatever. It's weird. Let the progression happen.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

As a player (not person), I literally ****ing hate Kuhn and want to wretch every time I see him on the ice. He goes agt everything I enjoy about the sport, and I'm tired of people associating blocked shots with a player being good/valuable.

Dude. A big "f*** yeah" to this. Especially that last part.

And no... I'm not putting this all on Sullivan. I don't think he's an idiot, or anything. I still have some faith in him. But these blind spots are infuriating and ongoing.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I wish JR would take away some of Sully's toys. Calling up ZAR instead of Sprong when two of your top 3 RWers is out was silly.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think it's imperative to have a progression when analyzing coaches/GMs/etc. There are some red flags out there with Sully. That doesn't make him the worst coach ever as some people do. I think your take here is honest and fair. No bus throw yet, but definitely something to write down and remember.

Everyone is always so fascinated with being the first to hate a player, coach, or whatever. It's weird. Let the progression happen.

He's won b2b cups for the first time in 20 years. That buys a lot of leeway with me. That doesn't mean I'll give him a free pass on everything he does though.

Sullivan was all about speed and skill. Things many of us desperately begged for... for years on end.

However, now he's suppressing a young talent for a try hard coal miner and that's a league mindset I didn't think he would fall into.