TV: The All - Encompassing Star Trek Thread. Debate Long + Prosper

[Captain Jellico]

DS9 is the end of Star Trek for me. The franchise has been dead for 27 years.

Voyager has aged well over time. Also at the very least, the New Frontier book series Peter David did is very well written and feels like a genuine spin off. I know talks of cannon etc. You can trust a guy who was doing excellent work on The Incredible Hulk, X-Factor, and the golden era of the Star Trek DC Comic run trimultaneously.

 

[Osprey]

 

[RobBrown4PM]

View attachment 1242698 View attachment 1242699

For a guy who exclaimed 'Honor!' at least once every minute of screen time he had, Worf sure was a shit dad.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

For a guy who exclaimed 'Honor!' at least once every minute of screen time he had, Worf sure was a shit dad.

He's too freaked out by his growth spurts to be a good dad!

 

[Guardian17]

 

[Jumptheshark]

this thread makes me feel old

 

[Jumptheshark]

rewatching Voyager and I wondering if Kim and Torrez were suppose the original couple and not Paris and Torrez

 

[johnjm22]

One of my favorite movie posters.

 

[Osprey]

I'm replying to this here to not get too off-topic in the other thread...

I think Star Trek has similar issues, it's fans are getting older or are really old and not enough to draw ratings for tv shows or for movies. Plus the younger fans have been highjacked by hate grifters, who have no idea or have forgotten what that universe is about and are using it for culture wars.

It doesn't make sense that they would hate modern Trek if they don't know or have forgotten classic Trek. Obviously, they hate it because they do remember how the franchise used to be, and they're popular in the first place because their audience feels the same way. It's Star Trek that's been hijacked, first by JJ Abrams turning it into an action franchise and then Kurtzman turning it into a joke. It's the people who don't mind those new directions who, sadly, don't know or have forgotten what Trek is. Also, younger fans who like modern Trek are not watching 50-year-old YouTubers complain about it and being brainwashed by them. You're not giving young people any credit for deciding for themselves what they like. Even they didn't care to watch something like Starfleet Academy in enough numbers to keep it from getting canceled. That's completely on the folks in charge for failing to capture their interest.

 

[Jussi]

 

[Jumptheshark]

looks good

 

[SJSharksfan39]

Silo is going back to the beginning, Strange New Worlds is one step closer to where it all began, Ted Lasso is having a fresh start, there will be a lot of beginnings this summer. Good trailer, but I was a little confused by the whole back to the beginning thing. Are we actually heading towards Pike's meeting with the Chair and will this season and next season actually be a big long arc to get to that point?

 

[The Nemesis]

Silo is going back to the beginning, Strange New Worlds is one step closer to where it all began, Ted Lasso is having a fresh start, there will be a lot of beginnings this summer. Good trailer, but I was a little confused by the whole back to the beginning thing. Are we actually heading towards Pike's meeting with the Chair and will this season and next season actually be a big long arc to get to that point?

Of course the obvious counter to what I'm going to say is "they'll just massage and change canon to suit them because they've done it before" but I don't know how they can given that canonically the accident doesn't happen to Pike until after he's promoted out of the captain's chair of the Enterprise and it's handed over to Kirk.

The only way they could do that would be potentially to have this season end with Pike's promotion and the transfer of command occurring and then the last season (since it's apparently just 6 episodes" is like a 2-track thing where we get part of the time spent on Kirk commanding the ship (as a sort of soft pitch for the proposed Kirk-led spinoff/sequel that isn't going to happen now) and part of the time on Pike in a new setting with entirely different characters having his own disconnected adventures that have nothing to do with the rest of the cast. But that would be weird and clumsy.

More likely is that they bring the spectre of the chair back by having the winding down of his time commanding the Enterprise give way to a realization that it means the inevitable march towards the accident and teh change in his life circumstances. Like before then he thought "it's all good, as long as I'm on this ship the accident isn't happening and is far off in some indistinct future" but then the promotion comes, and the assignment to the academy or whatever it was that led to the accident, and the realization that the clock has still been ticking the whole time and he can no longer ignore it or pretend it's beyond the horizon and out of his realm of concern. That way he can grapple with the impact of the accident without having to skip us ahead to it happening and deal with all the awkwardness that comes along with that.

 

[Captain Jellico]

I'm replying to this here to not get too off-topic in the other thread...

It doesn't make sense that they would hate modern Trek if they don't know or have forgotten classic Trek. Obviously, they hate it because they do remember how the franchise used to be, and they're popular in the first place because their audience feels the same way. It's Star Trek that's been hijacked, first by JJ Abrams turning it into an action franchise and then Kurtzman turning it into a joke. It's the people who don't mind those new directions who, sadly, don't know or have forgotten what Trek is. Also, younger fans who like modern Trek are not watching 50-year-old YouTubers complain about it and being brainwashed by them. You're not giving young people any credit for deciding for themselves what they like. Even they didn't care to watch something like Starfleet Academy in enough numbers to keep it from getting canceled. That's completely on the folks in charge for failing to capture their interest.

Star Trek is a concept. There's no need to go back and redo things. The lore should stand by itself and be promoted as part of the overall franchise.

 

[StreetHawk]

Star Trek is a concept. There's no need to go back and redo things. The lore should stand by itself and be promoted as part of the overall franchise.

I would agree. I would prefer to see a good series take place after TNG/DS9/Voyager years. Be it 10-25-50 years past Voyager's final episode. Something other than what they gave us with Picard.
Ideally with a new cast.

 

[Captain Jellico]

I would agree. I would prefer to see a good series take place after TNG/DS9/Voyager years. Be it 10-25-50 years past Voyager's final episode. Something other than what they gave us with Picard.
Ideally with a new cast.

I stick with my idea, go 50-100 years in the future and keep it like the first few seasons of TNG, no memberberries or throwback.

 

[Ducks in a row]

A post Dominion war series that involves rebuilding. diplomacy and handling the return to exploration after the trauma's of war is what I have wanted after DS9 and Voyager ended.

 

[StreetHawk]

A post Dominion war series that involves rebuilding. diplomacy and handling the return to exploration after the trauma's of war is what I have wanted after DS9 and Voyager ended.

I stick with my idea, go 50-100 years in the future and keep it like the first few seasons of TNG, no memberberries or throwback.

We needed something.

Post Dominion war would be interesting in terms of how Federation and Alpha Quadrant operate post war. They lost what % of ships and officers during the war? 40%?

Would then make sense (like they did on Picard) for ships to mostly look similar in that they have 1 model per each class. Not making a Rav4, 4Runner, Highlander as an SUV as an example.

But, so does jumping 50-70 years when all of the officers from all of the last 3 series would be fully retired and deceased.

 

[Captain Jellico]

We needed something.

Post Dominion war would be interesting in terms of how Federation and Alpha Quadrant operate post war. They lost what % of ships and officers during the war? 40%?

Would then make sense (like they did on Picard) for ships to mostly look similar in that they have 1 model per each class. Not making a Rav4, 4Runner, Highlander as an SUV as an example.

But, so does jumping 50-70 years when all of the officers from all of the last 3 series would be fully retired and deceased.

I strongly disagree. Part of the lore of Star Trek since the original movies was new ships with cool designs. The stuff they pulled in the Picard Season One final with the Inquiry class was one of the most bogus and lame things ever. Total hack job.

It was so bad that in Season Two (probably the only good part) they introduced all of those new ship designs in the first and last episodes.

With that, I still say bringing back 1701-D was a lame unoriginal stunt by Matalas. They already had the Ross Class from Picard Season Two which was a slicker less vulnerable version of the Galaxy Class. What they should have done was had the crew find a Ross Class that was unfinished/not yet in service, and when they "activated it", given it the 1701-G registry number, which Starfleet decides to honor. But you know, that involves creativity and writing, not nostalgia.

 

[johnjm22]

The Star Trek lit verse covers the post dominion war fallout quite well.

But they were forced to stop because they didn't match Alex Kurztman's terrible streaming shows.

20 years worth of detailed continuity-compatible universe building and story telling composed by talented and passionate Star Trek writers thrown away.

 

[Captain Jellico]

The Star Trek lit verse covers the post dominion war fallout quite well.

But they were forced to stop because they didn't match Alex Kurztman's terrible streaming shows.

20 years worth of detailed continuity-compatible universe building and story telling composed by talented and passionate Star Trek writers thrown away.

We can concentrate on the good elements and ignore the rest. Worf becoming captain of the Enterprise-E and Picard a fleet Admiral is good. Janeway's promotion and Riker being a captain for a decade plus works. I like what they did with Tuvok and Seven of Nine. Ezri and Nog are hopefully out there somewhere.

The overall "we tried to go back to exploration now that the war is over" as a general theme is fine. Even the uniforms going back to the colors works.

 

[StreetHawk]

I strongly disagree. Part of the lore of Star Trek since the original movies was new ships with cool designs. The stuff they pulled in the Picard Season One final with the Inquiry class was one of the most bogus and lame things ever. Total hack job.

I think for a "post war" series, it would have made sense for the first decade to focus on mass production to get the fleet numbers back up. I don't recall how far post war "Picard" series was, but after getting production back up, then I would agree that they should return to having more variety of ships in each class. It is part of the Trek lore. I get they cheaped out on F/X and just replicated multiple of the same ship design.

 

[Captain Jellico]

I think for a "post war" series, it would have made sense for the first decade to focus on mass production to get the fleet numbers back up. I don't recall how far post war "Picard" series was, but after getting production back up, then I would agree that they should return to having more variety of ships in each class. It is part of the Trek lore. I get they cheaped out on F/X and just replicated multiple of the same ship design.

Picard Season One was in 2399 so that's 24 years after the Dominion War ended. He was head of the Romulan Relocation project until 2385.

Enough time had passed. They had plenty of designs from TNG Movie Era and Voyager whether Sovereign, Akira, Luna, Sabre, Equinox, Steamrunner, and not to mention all the Star Trek Online stuff that adding even 1-2 more classes was plenty to work with. We only saw the Enterprise-E and Equinox.

They cheaped out and half assed Season One because they're not Star Trek people. Screw them.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

We needed something.

Post Dominion war would be interesting in terms of how Federation and Alpha Quadrant operate post war. They lost what % of ships and officers during the war? 40%?

Would then make sense (like they did on Picard) for ships to mostly look similar in that they have 1 model per each class. Not making a Rav4, 4Runner, Highlander as an SUV as an example.

But, so does jumping 50-70 years when all of the officers from all of the last 3 series would be fully retired and deceased.

In some of the fleet engagements during the war, it's presumed Star Fleet lost upwards of 100,000 personnel.

During the engagement at Tyra, the 7th fleet lost 98 of it's 112 ships.

Operation return saw 600 Federation ships engage over 1200 Dominion vessels. During the battle we saw dozens and dozens of Star Fleet ships blown to bits. One can presume that Star Fleet lost hundreds of ships and countless personnel.

311 Federation vessels were destroyed or damaged beyond repair during the 2nd Battle of the Chin'Toka system. That's probably well over 200,000 casualties, many of those being KIA.

We can estimate that the UFP lost millions of crewmen and women in fleet engagements alone during the war. It would be nice to see how Star Fleet personnel dealt with this trauma. We get snippets of this in Lower Decks. Mariner is shown to be heavily traumatized by her experiences during the war.