Rumor: The All Encompassing Patrik Laine Thread (it’s happening!!)

[Miller Time]

I strongly disagree. Two scoring lines doesn't somehow get our team out of the goals against basement. Our 3rd/4th lines are weak, our defense is young, and our goaltending is below average. This is not to mention Laine's defensive mishaps, and we'd have to expect ALL our young scorers to stay healthy and increase their production from last year - which is improbable.

Upgrading the top 6 improves all of those aspects... That's the beauty of a team sport and why depth matters.

And yes, adding 1 player (even if it were McDavid), doesn't magically make our roster a contender... Injuries absolutely could tank our season, much in the way that a fully healthy season pushes us into a playoff spot even without a top 6 addition

 

[Habs10Habs]

But that's kind of what Engels said, they don't have much interest and it makes sense why they wouldn't (it doesn't solve anything long term without being expensive compared to what they've been intentional to do, the player himself has warts on the ice, there's the player assistance program and the fact this is one of the more difficult markets to re-establish yourself especially if you're the top earner on the team).

The fact that you're quoting what Engels said makes me laugh. I have more connections than that idiot. But I'll play along.

If Laine, or any other top 6 player comes in and does well. How does that not help us in the long term? If he comes here and blows away Suzuki, Slafkovsky, Caufield etc? Yes he becomes expensive, and would probably deserve to be paid higher than the players I listed. Suzuki is the standard right now for salaries. I highly doubt that is set in stone.

Yes he has warts, comes with risks. There may be dozens of other issues that we haven't heard or thought about. This is where HuGo comes in and after hearing these issues. Makes a decision on whether or not he'd be a good fit for the team.

If we were bringing in Laine and able to extend him right now. Or if we gave up a valuable piece(s) *Drouin). I think more fans would be upset if things don't go well. If we give up something reasonable. Fans should know that it's about the same as buying a lottery ticket.

There's also a finite number of top 6 spots left now and in the future. I think they're really intentional about who and what that top 6 acquisition looks like and I personally don't think it looks like Laine.

It's possible, but just like Engels. You and I are both guessing. HuGo is becoming known as a tough negotiator. So there may be interest, which I believe. Or they may not feel he's a fit, your believe.

They didn't sign Marchessault because of the term. They aren't desperate to push this thing forward if there's future implications which may impact their ability to be competitive long term. Laine is a similar case, the only way they'd be interested is if they got compensated to take him (Monahan) or if they were able to give up someone in the deal that had a term that was more egregious (Anderson or Gallagher). The value in a Laine deal for Montreal isn't the player, it would be setting themselves up for the future and CBJ doesn't seem interested much in a move like that right now.

True they aren't desperate, but HuGo themselves has stated that adding a top 6 player is on the to do list.

See this is where I see things differently. Marchessault was ONLY a short term solution. Where because of his age. Laine has the potential to be not only a short term, but a long term solution as well.

Maybe that's what they're looking for, hoping for another Monahan situation. Maybe they're trying to make Waddel cave, so that he has to eat salary. I've used the fact that HuGo seems to do things in a certain way. In saying that though, he's not a robot (that we know of lol). Which means he may alter his thinking, if he feels there's a fit by adding Laine.

Personally if I'm CLB. I tell Laine to stfu and just play hockey. We don't know what's happening in CLB. Waddel may be mandated to get rid of Laine, before the season starts. If he is, the price he currently wants for him. Won't be what he gets in the end.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It may come down to Columbus having to pay us to take him. We have the space for it and few other teams do.

And that would make some sense as long as the return remains low, but I think the moment they're retaining then the price probably goes up. Neither options seem palatable to the team right now.

The fact that you're quoting what Engels said makes me laugh. I have more connections than that idiot. But I'll play along.

If Laine, or any other top 6 player comes in and does well. How does that not help us in the long term? If he comes here and blows away Suzuki, Slafkovsky, Caufield etc? Yes he becomes expensive, and would probably deserve to be paid higher than the players I listed. Suzuki is the standard right now for salaries. I highly doubt that is set in stone.

Yes he has warts, comes with risks. There may be dozens of other issues that we haven't heard or thought about. This is where HuGo comes in and after hearing these issues. Makes a decision on whether or not he'd be a good fit for the team.

If we were bringing in Laine and able to extend him right now. Or if we gave up a valuable piece(s) *Drouin). I think more fans would be upset if things don't go well. If we give up something reasonable. Fans should know that it's about the same as buying a lottery ticket.


It's possible, but just like Engels. You and I are both guessing. HuGo is becoming known as a tough negotiator. So there may be interest, which I believe. Or they may not feel he's a fit, your believe.


True they aren't desperate, but HuGo themselves has stated that adding a top 6 player is on the to do list.

See this is where I see things differently. Marchessault was ONLY a short term solution. Where because of his age. Laine has the potential to be not only a short term, but a long term solution as well.

Maybe that's what they're looking for, hoping for another Monahan situation. Maybe they're trying to make Waddel cave, so that he has to eat salary. I've used the fact that HuGo seems to do things in a certain way. In saying that though, he's not a robot (that we know of lol). Which means he may alter his thinking, if he feels there's a fit by adding Laine.

Personally if I'm CLB. I tell Laine to stfu and just play hockey. We don't know what's happening in CLB. Waddel may be mandated to get rid of Laine, before the season starts. If he is, the price he currently wants for him. Won't be what he gets in the end.

I'm quoting him because what he says makes total sense if you look at the moves and non moves the team has made under Hughes and Gorton.

As for everything else, I feel like I've covered it all in previous posts. Laine is an opportunity, it's not the right opportunity and I believe they'll continue to be patient and wait to use their assets to pounce on something that isn't a lottery ticket and is a meaningful upgrade, culture and salary fit to the team.

 

[Miller Time]

I get where you're coming from and I'm well aware of our injury issues, but you can play that same game with everyone.

No, you can't... Injuries don't affect each team equally each year. Some teams suffer more than others. The top rosters are contenders in part because they have the depth to absorb key injuries and stay in the playoff conversation. Middle tier teams less so, bottom tier team the least.

But this roster is not the sharks, or Blackhawks (neither of whom make the POs even without injuries, imo). That's I suppose where we differ in our assessment.

What if Ottawa had Pinto/Norris for a lot more games? What about them now that they acquired an excellent goalie, which they haven't had since Anderson? Etc, etc, etc, for other teams. We just don't consider them because we remain focused on ours but we don't exist alone. We're not racers competing against the time in a lap.

Yes. There are other teams that have rosters capable of a big improvement if things go well for them.

If anyone knew definitively how each season will play out for every team, they'd be Vegas royalty lol

Not sure what your point is?

We have way too many teams to leap to even finish 9th for me to proclaim that we're close without doing literally anything besides praying we remain healthy and literally everyone gets a bump. That doesn't seem realistic to me.

Disagree here. We were in the wild card hunt before we lost Newhook & then traded away Monahan. Had we just kept Monahan, we likely finish a few spots higher.

And again, I think you grossly underestimate the likely improvement curve of a largely U25 core group, benefitting from stability few young rosters typically see (coaching & roster-wise). In a team game, these things matter.

But yes, we are still a bottom tier roster. I just think we are near the top of that tier.

As for injuries... sure, we could see yet another season losing key top 6 & top 4 players for big chunks... But After several years of being near the top of the league for injuries, odds are that we won't always be bottom 5 in that... The teams that do typically finish lower than their on paper rosters otherwise predicted.

Personally, I find this off-season a lot more Bergevin-esque than anything prior. He was the kind of idiot who would refuse to make a move when necessary and just watch his team bottom out (early deadlines when the team was good, also when Price went down and we were in 1st place, etc.). I'm not comparing both GMs at all but this offseason strikes me as the first one where HuGo are clearly f***ing up on a decision here.

Here I just don't see it at all. Nothing about this offseason is reminiscent of the Bergevin era. What an odd take.

Bergevin didn't hesitate to make bold decisions... He was just terrible at it, mostly because of his poor assessments and large impatience. If anything, Most of his moves were of the quick fix / short - term thinking variety.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And that would make some sense as long as the return remains low, but I think the moment they're retaining then the price probably goes up. Neither options seem palatable to the team right now.

it’s an interesting situation because Laine could wind up filling in on the top six. He’s not ideal and I don’t think he’s what we’re looking for but if we got solid assets back with him? Then I think it’d be hard to say no.

But if I’m Columbus, I don’t do this. They want to rebuild. Last thing they should be doing is giving pieces away.

Put a ‘take for free’ sign on him. If nobody bites you go back to him and tell him to shut up and play hockey.

 

[SwiftyHab]

The only reason to get him is to flip him retained as an asset

You’ve been watching too many house flippers shows on HGTV

 

[TesseractPrice]

I like the rebuild and I like what HuGo have done so far but not doing a single thing in summer 3 of your rebuild in the division we're in just reeks of a bum decision. There's a big hole in your top-6, you've acknowledged that it's there and there's a reclamation project that fits with that you want (short term, high money). Not even attempting the move seems stupid to me but I'm not an NHL employee so maybe there's something I don't know.

The explanation I have for their inaction this summer (I mean there's still time, but I don't expect anything) is that they must be rating Demidov extremely high. To be apparently satisfied with what they have and standing pat after two straight summers of trading picks for young players has to mean that they think Demidov will be a high impact forward as soon as next season. They'd have done something if they didn't think so right?

That or they love Roy. Or they're in love with the 2025 draft. Or all of the above

Laine would be so exciting however, that's for sure. I expect him to be a Wild this season. Playing with Kaprizov on the PP could ignite his career, I hope for him it does

 

[WeThreeKings]

The explanation I have for their inaction this summer (I mean there's still time, but I don't expect anything) is that they must be rating Demidov extremely high. To be apparently satisfied with what they have and standing pat after two straight summers of trading picks for young players has to mean that they think Demidov will be a high impact forward as soon as next season. They'd have done something if they didn't think so right?

That or they love Roy. Or they're in love with the 2025 draft. Or all of the above

Laine would be so exciting however, that's for sure. I expect him to be a Wild this season. Playing with Kaprizov on the PP could ignite his career, I hope for him it does

They've targeted next year as the year to really push the roster forward. I think they are just being intentional about who they target and at what term and cost. They really don't want to throw road blocks in the way of internal growth and what will make us a sustainably successful team.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

No, you can't... Injuries don't affect each team equally each year. Some teams suffer more than others. The top rosters are contenders in part because they have the depth to absorb key injuries and stay in the playoff conversation. Middle tier teams less so, bottom tier team the least.

But this roster is not the sharks, or Blackhawks (neither of whom make the POs even without injuries, imo). That's I suppose where we differ in our assessment.



Yes. There are other teams that have rosters capable of a big improvement if things go well for them.

If anyone knew definitively how each season will play out for every team, they'd be Vegas royalty lol

Not sure what your point is?




Disagree here. We were in the wild card hunt before we lost Newhook & then traded away Monahan. Had we just kept Monahan, we likely finish a few spots higher.

And again, I think you grossly underestimate the likely improvement curve of a largely U25 core group, benefitting from stability few young rosters typically see (coaching & roster-wise). In a team game, these things matter.

But yes, we are still a bottom tier roster. I just think we are near the top of that tier.

As for injuries... sure, we could see yet another season losing key top 6 & top 4 players for big chunks... But After several years of being near the top of the league for injuries, odds are that we won't always be bottom 5 in that... The teams that do typically finish lower than their on paper rosters otherwise predicted.



Here I just don't see it at all. Nothing about this offseason is reminiscent of the Bergevin era. What an odd take.

Bergevin didn't hesitate to make bold decisions... He was just terrible at it, mostly because of his poor assessments and large impatience. If anything, Most of his moves were of the quick fix / short - term thinking variety.

My point is that your rationale gives off major 'Everything will go great/better for us and remain the same for everyone else' vibes which is pretty much what would require to happen for us to leap up the standings as much as you think. To think Monahan/Newhook alone would have caused that jump last year is nuts. It's great that the Habs were a little more competitive earlier on in the year but Monahan alone isn't changing the standings that much. Not many players would, not Laine either. The point of acquiring Laine - to me at least - is just to improve your chances but more than anything, to give the young players a really good offensive talent to play with.

As for Bergevin, strong disagree on that one. He was risk-avoidant to a fault, especially with picks (Even Subban-Weber was a risk avoidant move in that he only traded him in a sideways move, expecting a no.1 for his no.1). The only move with any boldness I recall him making is Sergachev-Drouin. Even the Pacioretty trade he just had to do because the guy explicitly wanted out at that point. But he didn't do anything for years when we needed him to.

Again, not getting Laine isn't in that realm, but I see it as a smaller version of that small mentality reticence unless there's really something flagrant we don't know.

 

[le_sean]

The explanation I have for their inaction this summer (I mean there's still time, but I don't expect anything) is that they must be rating Demidov extremely high. To be apparently satisfied with what they have and standing pat after two straight summers of trading picks for young players has to mean that they think Demidov will be a high impact forward as soon as next season. They'd have done something if they didn't think so right?

That or they love Roy. Or they're in love with the 2025 draft. Or all of the above

Laine would be so exciting however, that's for sure. I expect him to be a Wild this season. Playing with Kaprizov on the PP could ignite his career, I hope for him it does

I think they love the 2025 draft and it’s the perfect opportunity to reevaluate what you have in Kirby Dach. He looked like he was on the verge of being as impactful as Suzuki on the ice. If he becomes that player, everything becomes clearer next offseason - you give him Demidov and maybe make a big trade for a veteran. If he isn’t, well then you have a Top 10 pick in what appears to be another excellent early draft.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think they love the 2025 draft and it’s the perfect opportunity to reevaluate what you have in Kirby Dach. He looked like he was on the verge of being as impactful as Suzuki on the ice. If he becomes that player, everything becomes clearer next offseason. If he isn’t, well then you have a Top 10 pick in what appears to be another excellent early draft.

That's the other thing, the chances of a top ten pick being used on a forward is high.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I'm quoting him because what he says makes total sense if you look at the moves and non moves the team has made under Hughes and Gorton.

As for everything else, I feel like I've covered it all in previous posts. Laine is an opportunity, it's not the right opportunity and I believe they'll continue to be patient and wait to use their assets to pounce on something that isn't a lottery ticket and is a meaningful upgrade, culture and salary fit to the team.

Yes, but as I mentioned. Just because they've done something the same 9 times in a row. It doesn't mean they won't alter their thinking. Depending on the situation that's presented to them on the 10th time.

Lol yes, no reason to go on another big debate.

See you and some others don't feel it's the right opportunity. The same way I feel it is a good opportunity. Depending on the cost and if they do their due diligence on Laine.

Ok, HuGo mentioned they want to add a top 6. The question we all have is in what time frame. You feel they're going to be patient, so it could be this season or maybe next. While I feel that HuGo will also be patient. Only making a deal, if it makes sense. I just feel a deal will be made this off season. Or shortly afterwards.

Any trade you make could be considered a lottery ticket. You never know at the time, whether said player is going to fit. Which is why I"m hoping that whomever HuGo decides to add. They take the time to gather as much information as possible. Before pulling the trigger.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

The way I see it, I feel Montreal could gain a bit from having that shark mentality that teams like Vegas (who ran the table on the entire league right off the bat, on a bunch of GMs who made a ton of bad deals because they were scared of losing an asset), New York, Florida, Tampa Bay have and a bit less of that Carolina organic/internal growth/pure numbers efficency at all cost that they went with. They have/had a really good team out of it but it looks like now they may have missed a shot to go for it and they're probably trending down with nothing to show for it.

 

[TesseractPrice]

They've targeted next year as the year to really push the roster forward. I think they are just being intentional about who they target and at what term and cost. They really don't want to throw road blocks in the way of internal growth and what will make us a sustainably successful team.

I get that, but at the same time staggering the new acquisitions over the years allows to preserve the good atmosphere and facilitate their integration

There will be a lot of departures next offseason, but do you think we'll see multiple acquisitions (trades and UFA) at once? Hughes and Gorton strike me more as favouring a carefully planned incremental approach rather than making a big splash at once

 

[WeThreeKings]

I get that, but at the same time staggering the new acquisitions over the years allows to preserve the good atmosphere and facilitate their integration

There will be a lot of departures next offseason, but do you think we'll see multiple acquisitions (trades and UFA) at once? Hughes and Gorton strike me more as favouring a carefully planned incremental approach rather than a big splash at once

I can see a blended approach of a big trade, a big UFA signing, and the introduction of Reinbacher Mailloux Hutson Beck Demidov full time into the roster.

 

[sampollock]

On Marinaro last night, Eric Engels said the Habs have minimal interest if any in Laine, and that he’s asked around. A combination of his price tag, his poor play (other than goal scoring), and not wanting to jeopardize the good chemistry they have in the room. Says if Habs take him, they’ll probably be asking for a sweetener rather than offer something back.

So maybe we close this thread?

YET so many here say Engels is full of hot air. no source lol

Engels is definitely on the money there. Laine has never felt like a legitimate option to the MO of this front office. I'm sure if they got paid to take him, they'd be interested but the risks are plenty, and the upside is what? You have to decide to trade him as a rental when you want to be a playoff team next year or extend him at a salary that blows out their cap structure?

now engels is correct. he gets blasted on here so many times. not sure if he is the correct source of all habs

 

[LaP]

I get that, but at the same time staggering the new acquisitions over the years allows to preserve the good atmosphere and facilitate their integration

There will be a lot of departures next offseason, but do you think we'll see multiple acquisitions (trades and UFA) at once? Hughes and Gorton strike me more as favouring a carefully planned incremental approach rather than a big splash at once

Multiple no.

Slaf-Suzuki-Caufield
Newhook-Dach-Demidov
Roy-?-?
Anderson-Beck-Gallagher

Matheson-Guhle
Hutson-Reinbacher
Xhekaj-Mailloux
Engstrom-Barron-Struble

They'll try to find a 3rd line center if Beck is not ready. If Beck is ready they'll try to find a 4th line center. But with Beck and Hage in the pipeline it will likely be a short term (3 years max) contract to an old vet with cup experience.

Depending on how Newhook progress or not and Dach injury status they'll try to find a top 6 winger. How high we will draft next draft might influence their decision too. I thik they'll try to sign a top 6 winger and a 3rd line center (maybe 2nd line if Dach in injured again and Newhook doesn't progress but that's lot of if).

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Regardless of what you think of Eric Engels, I'd say it's pretty clear that at this point that there is minimal interest around Laine across the league. We'd hear a lot more smoke from anywhere if there was much going on.

Montreal and Buffalo got rumored on TSN and apparently Guerin wants to talk to him but he has no cap space. That's not great for Columbus.

 

[sampollock]

Regardless of what you think of Eric Engels, I'd say it's pretty clear that at this point that there is minimal interest around Laine across the league. We'd hear a lot more smoke from anywhere if there was much going on.

Montreal and Buffalo got rumored on TSN and apparently Guerin wants to talk to him but he has no cap space. That's not great for Columbus.

not arguing with you
but when Engels says something that fans agree with he is right
when he says things fans don't like, he is a talking head full of hot air

I guess if Freidman does not say it, then not true

 

[Miller Time]

My point is that your rationale gives off major 'Everything will go great/better for us and remain the same for everyone else' vibes which is pretty much what would require to happen for us to leap up the standings as much as you think.

Except, I've never stated that. Seems you're reading into my words what you want to hear...

And no, it will not require "everything to go right for us and remain the same for the others" for us to stay in the WC chase longer than last year. That's a overly pessimistic outlook on our roster relative to the rosters of the teams that missed the POs last year, for reasons I've already outlined.

To think Monahan/Newhook alone would have caused that jump last year is nuts.

Lol. Did you not follow the team last year?

We were 2 games over .500 at Xmas in case you forgot.

It's great that the Habs were a little more competitive earlier on in the year but Monahan alone isn't changing the standings that much. Not many players would, not Laine either. The point of acquiring Laine - to me at least - is just to improve your chances but more than anything, to give the young players a really good offensive talent to play with.

Individual players affect the results of weaker rosters more than stronger rosters.

What position a player plays also matters.

We lost Dach, Monahan, Newhook & Dvorak for large chunks of the season. All C's.

Evans was 4th in ice time among forwards for us as a result...

Context matters.

As for Bergevin, strong disagree on that one. He was risk-avoidant to a fault, especially with picks (Even Subban-Weber was a risk avoidant move in that he only traded him in a sideways move, expecting a no.1 for his no.1). The only move with any boldness I recall him making is Sergachev-Drouin. Even the Pacioretty trade he just had to do because the guy explicitly wanted out at that point. But he didn't do anything for years when we needed him to.

Agree to disagree.

Risk avoidance certainly can lead to poor decisions, but his poor assessment of risk was the issue.

He spent to the cap regularly, paid premiums on ufas & extensions, traded away & crapped on fan favorites... These are not "play it safe" decisions.

Again, not getting Laine isn't in that realm, but I see it as a smaller version of that small mentality reticence unless there's really something flagrant we don't know.

I don't see the reticence being a matter of risk avoidance.

If anything, given KHs own comments at the end of last season, not adding any pieces to bolster the roster despite the cap, draft capital & prospects on hand to make a move, is a riskier proposition than doing what so many GMs do on July 1st...

KH could've gone the Bergevin route and thrown cap space at a Hoffman, or traded assets for a Drouin or Anderson... They didn't because they have a plan in place, confidence in their assessments of the assets in house, and the patience to be opportunistic rather than premature.

Far cry from what we've seen here, but very familiar approach if you look at pro sports organizations that have built sustained runs of excellence.

Future is bright

 

[WeThreeKings]

YET so many here say Engels is full of hot air. no source lol


now engels is correct. he gets blasted on here so many times. not sure if he is the correct source of all habs

These guys get used for different things. Basu just got played on the Buium interest. But generally when none of the sources close to the Habs talk Laine and when they shut it down pretty firmly usually that means something.

I try to put two and two together. Is what he is saying likely with how they move? Engels conclusion is logical based on how Hugo have operated and what this group has valued.

 

[sampollock]

These guys get used for different things. Basu just got played on the Buium interest. But generally when none of the sources close to the Habs talk Laine and when they shut it down pretty firmly usually that means something.

I try to put two and two together. Is what he is saying likely with how they move? Engels conclusion is logical based on how Hugo have operated and what this group has valued.

ya true

I just laugh how many times Engels gets roasted on here.

 

[Mikah]

And again, I think you grossly underestimate the likely improvement curve of a largely U25 core group, benefitting from stability few young rosters typically see (coaching & roster-wise). In a team game, these things matter.

And I think people grossly underestimate the likely regression of some of the ageing players that will be stuck in the lineup. Gallagher, Anderson, Dvorak, Armia, Pezzeta, Savard.

That's the thing. The team is essentially the same as last year up to the trade deadline (replace Monahan with Dach), and they were nowhere close to a playoff spot. And on top of that, they need to start giving time to young players who will make mistakes learning, particularly in D.

Problem with Laine, is that if he doesn't do well, its a bust. But if he does well, then you end up in 2 years having to pay him 8-9 mills a year at 28 years old and injury prone.

I think that's why they are passing on him. They would rather get someone young on a good contract then a risky ageing player who will not peak at the same time of the rest of the group.

 

[Sorinth]

If he's worth resigning, which young players in the league would negotiate a salary lower than their previous salary? Only ones who legitimately had their careers on the line (Aka a Galchenyuk), so you're looking at having to extend him for 9+. That would be instantly problematic, and do we think if Laine is contributing to a playoff team, that next year Hughes would sell him?

It's just not the play they are gonna spend assets on. Laine ain't that guy. If they got paid to take him, or got him for insanely cheap like a pair of 3rds, sure. But they aren't going to really bid much to acquire him. There's too many risks and pitfalls to it, on a personal and hockey level.

Ok let's say he comes in scores 80 goals over the final 2 years and is looking to get paid 9m. Why is that an instant problem? Because surely it's not actually a problem cap-wise.

 

[calder candidate]

If he averages 60+ pts the next 2 seasons he will be unaffordable to resign, so then what. He made up slightly better for 2 seasons, I don't see how that helps our rebuild.

If he produce 60+pts why would he be unaffordable it is not like the will be better UFA that will be more affordable… If he produce 60+ he will be a valuable asset a the TDL, if he doesn’t resign, we get more that what we paid for him… If he 60+pts he will have help is line mate breakout. Also if we get Laine are rebuild is almost done we just have to hope that important prospect (Reinbacher, Demidov, etc) pan out.