Rumor: The All Encompassing Patrik Laine Thread (it’s happening!!)

[David Suzuki]

????

Your post can be summarized as:

"Eric Engels said"

Seems likely to be true from my POV but obviously you never know. IMO the only way we jeopardize our salary structure for Patrick Laine is if they take a bad contract back, IE a sweetener. Otherwise, it just doesn't seem like a Hughes move.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Unless there's a really massive red flag that we don't know about, this just reeks of Bergevin-level inertia.

He's short-term and high money, which Hughes directly said he was comfortable with. Seems stupid not to fill a gaping hole in your top-6.

Oh well, I assume we'll see a lot of shocked Pikachu faces when we're in the basement again.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Engels is definitely on the money there. Laine has never felt like a legitimate option to the MO of this front office. I'm sure if they got paid to take him, they'd be interested but the risks are plenty, and the upside is what? You have to decide to trade him as a rental when you want to be a playoff team next year or extend him at a salary that blows out their cap structure?

 

[Miller Time]

Unless there's a really massive red flag that we don't know about, this just reeks of Bergevin-level inertia.

He's short-term and high money, which Hughes directly said he was comfortable with. Seems stupid not to fill a gaping hole in your top-6.

Oh well, I assume we'll see a lot of shocked Pikachu faces when we're in the basement again.

Why on earth would anyone be "shocked" if the Habs are in the basement again? It's literally were they are predicted to be by most around here and by just about every external observer.

I'm more bullish than most about how high we can finish, and I wouldn't be surprised with another bottom 5 finish, unless we did so despite a very healthy year with most our young players progressing well. But even a skeptic like you must see that a healthy and improved result from this group puts this squad in the playoff hunt, unless the PTSD runs very deep lol

 

[Habs10Habs]

If he averages 60+ pts the next 2 seasons he will be unaffordable to resign, so then what. He made up slightly better for 2 seasons, I don't see how that helps our rebuild.

If he does that well and becomes too unaffordable to sign. You have discussions with him prior to the trade deadline. If you can't come to a reasonable deal, you trade him.

 

[Miller Time]

If he averages 60+ pts the next 2 seasons he will be unaffordable to resign, so then what. He made up slightly better for 2 seasons, I don't see how that helps our rebuild.

If he averages 60+ the next 2 yrs, we have 2 legit top lines and likely make the playoffs at least 1, if not both years...

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Why on earth would anyone be "shocked" if the Habs are in the basement again? It's literally were they are predicted to be by most around here and by just about every external observer.

I'm more bullish than most about how high we can finish, and I wouldn't be surprised with another bottom 5 finish, unless we did so despite a very healthy year with most our young players progressing well. But even a skeptic like you must see that a healthy and improved result from this group puts this squad in the playoff hunt, unless the PTSD runs very deep lol

I think seeing the roster as is as 'being in the playoff hunt' to be a massive case of overexcitement at the rebuild and ignoring the neighbor's yard while gazing dreamily at ours.

I like the rebuild and I like what HuGo have done so far but not doing a single thing in summer 3 of your rebuild in the division we're in just reeks of a bum decision. There's a big hole in your top-6, you've acknowledged that it's there and there's a reclamation project that fits with that you want (short term, high money). Not even attempting the move seems stupid to me but I'm not an NHL employee so maybe there's something I don't know.

Engels is definitely on the money there. Laine has never felt like a legitimate option to the MO of this front office. I'm sure if they got paid to take him, they'd be interested but the risks are plenty, and the upside is what? You have to decide to trade him as a rental when you want to be a playoff team next year or extend him at a salary that blows out their cap structure?

'He plays so good that it becomes a problem' has always struck me as a misguided way of looking at things.

If you can't come to a reasonable agreement for an extension, trade him.

 

[gusfring]

Engels is definitely on the money there. Laine has never felt like a legitimate option to the MO of this front office. I'm sure if they got paid to take him, they'd be interested but the risks are plenty, and the upside is what? You have to decide to trade him as a rental when you want to be a playoff team next year or extend him at a salary that blows out their cap structure?

I bet if the Habs traded for Laine tomorrow, Engels would love the move.

 

[Tyson]

In Hughes I trust

 

[Habs10Habs]

Engels is definitely on the money there. Laine has never felt like a legitimate option to the MO of this front office. I'm sure if they got paid to take him, they'd be interested but the risks are plenty, and the upside is what? You have to decide to trade him as a rental when you want to be a playoff team next year or extend him at a salary that blows out their cap structure?

The upside is he becomes a solid top 6 player who we can either re-sign at a reasonable cost. Or trade him for assets that are worth more than we'd pay for him right now. Also you're guessing that extending him would blow out our cap structure. His previous contract was based on what the Jets thought his potential would be. His next contract will be based more on a "what have you done for me lately" basis.

If he comes in and scores at a pace where he'd deserve more than what Suzuki makes. What's the problem?

 

[WeThreeKings]

The upside is he becomes a solid top 6 player who we can either re-sign at a reasonable cost. Or trade him for assets that are more than we'd pay for him right now. Also you're guessing that extending him would blow out our cap structure. His previous contract was based on what the Jets thought his potential would be. His next contract will be based more on a "what have you done for me lately".

If he comes in and scores at a pace where he'd deserve more than what Suzuki makes. What's the problem?

If he's worth resigning, which young players in the league would negotiate a salary lower than their previous salary? Only ones who legitimately had their careers on the line (Aka a Galchenyuk), so you're looking at having to extend him for 9+. That would be instantly problematic, and do we think if Laine is contributing to a playoff team, that next year Hughes would sell him?

It's just not the play they are gonna spend assets on. Laine ain't that guy. If they got paid to take him, or got him for insanely cheap like a pair of 3rds, sure. But they aren't going to really bid much to acquire him. There's too many risks and pitfalls to it, on a personal and hockey level.

 

[Miller Time]

I think seeing the roster as is as 'being in the playoff hunt' to be a massive case of overexcitement at the rebuild and ignoring the neighbor's yard while gazing dreamily at ours.

You seem to ignore the impact of injuries on NHL rosters.

No roster at the start of the season ends up fully healthy. Habs have been one of the most injured teams in the league the past few seasons. The end result isn't a reflection of the roster strength, but rather the end result of how that particular season unfolded.

We've lacked the depth of top 6 & top 4 talent to be a playoff lock, and still do, but the group today is improved in both areas heading into camp... That's what a large U25 core of high end youth provides and the main reason there was no need to make external additions to "keep up with the jones".

I like the rebuild and I like what HuGo have done so far but not doing a single thing in summer 3 of your rebuild in the division we're in just reeks of a bum decision.

I get the impatience. I feel it to.

But look at the context and I think that the emotion is misplaced.

Most of the most active neighbors who made external additions also lost considerably talent (or have vet talent more likely to regress or plateau than progress). Each roster situation is unique, not all rosters need to add to be improved.

"Year 3" is irrelevant. The point is to build towards a contending roster. We are closer to that today than we were at season end... Red Wings are a great example of a rebuild that is stagnating in part because of poor UFA & vet trade additions that added nothing while creating unnecessary road blocks to U25 players who could/should be progressing at NHL level by now. Even though I was in favour of a vet middle 6 addition, or a swing at a Stamkos, I'm glad we didn't force the issue just to add someone for the sake of it.

The right fit (player, personality & contract) was way more important than adding at any cost. Bergevin did that often and we're still paying the price for that poor approach.

There's a big hole in your top-6, you've acknowledged that it's there and there's a reclamation project that fits with that you want (short term, high money). Not even attempting the move seems stupid to me but I'm not an NHL employee so maybe there's something I don't know.

"My" top 6? Are you a Habs fan or not?

What evidence do you have that "no attempt" was made? I've seen commentary that suggests quite the opposite. I think you are conflating not finding the right fit with not trying to make an addition.

KH flat out started as much multiple times. And the offseason isn't over. Won't be surprised if we start the season as is, and, won't be surprised to see a movie before opening day. Either way, we are well on track with a better roster, prospect pool and cap structure than a year ago. That's what a proper rebuild looks like... Takes patience to enjoy it

 

[junyab]

If he averages 60+ the next 2 yrs, we have 2 legit top lines and likely make the playoffs at least 1, if not both years...

I strongly disagree. Two scoring lines doesn't somehow get our team out of the goals against basement. Our 3rd/4th lines are weak, our defense is young, and our goaltending is below average. This is not to mention Laine's defensive mishaps, and we'd have to expect ALL our young scorers to stay healthy and increase their production from last year - which is improbable.

 

[Tyson]

I strongly disagree. Two scoring lines doesn't somehow get our team out of the goals against basement. Our 3rd/4th lines are weak, our defense is young, and our goaltending is below average. This is not to mention Laine's defensive mishaps, and we'd have to expect ALL our young scorers to stay healthy and increase their production from last year - which is improbable.

I think at worse our goal tending is average. I expect both goalies to take positive steps this season. Monty has continuously improved from the moment he arrived.

 

[Habs10Habs]

If he's worth resigning, which young players in the league would negotiate a salary lower than their previous salary? Only ones who legitimately had their careers on the line (Aka a Galchenyuk), so you're looking at having to extend him for 9+. That would be instantly problematic, and do we think if Laine is contributing to a playoff team, that next year Hughes would sell him?

It's just not the play they are gonna spend assets on. Laine ain't that guy. If they got paid to take him, or got him for insanely cheap like a pair of 3rds, sure. But they aren't going to really bid much to acquire him. There's too many risks and pitfalls to it, on a personal and hockey level.

Which is why I stated that it would depend on how he plays in the next year and a half. If he does well, you sit down with him and see if his demands fit into your salary structure. If he doesn't you have two choices. You keep him as a 2 year rental, (if we're in a playoff race) then let him walk. Using his cap space for new additions. If we aren't in a playoff race. You eat some salary, and trade him like we did with Monahan. Probably getting back more than what we'd pay for him now.

See, you're guessing just as much as I am that he could or might not be "that guy". I've said from the begining that I'm interested in Laine. But not at any cost, and I'm definitely not interested in getting into any bidding war for him. I'm standing by the fact that I'd be interested if the offer for him is reasonable. Not a lot of teams are able to eat his whole salary. Which is my guess what Waddel is hoping for. Since he's already come out and stated that Laine would have been traded by now. If the offer(s) he received didn't involve CLB eating salary.

I'm not going to deny that there isn't any risks. If there wasn't, the cost for Laine would probably be out of our price range. Since we're still at a stage where we can afford to take some risks. If the ask for Laine is reasonable, why not pull the trigger.

 

[junyab]

I think at worse our goal tending is average. I expect both goalies to take positive steps this season. Monty has continuously improved from the moment he arrived.

My opinion carries no weight, so I did a quick search for goalie rankings and most (actually all of the 12 lists I saw) lists have our goalies in the bottom 10. They're not even in the top 3 of non-playoff teams.

 

[le_sean]

Engels parroting what some of us were saying in here - not only does Montreal have limited interest in Laine, is he in the right headspace to want the spotlight? Does he actually bring anything other than goals, which he’s scoring less of these days? Is he the right person to add to this young dressing room? It’s just not a fit.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Which is why I stated that it would depend on how he plays in the next year and a half. If he does well, you sit down with him and see if his demands fit into your salary structure. If he doesn't you have two choices. You keep him as a 2 year rental, (if we're in a playoff race) then let him walk. Using his cap space for new additions. If we aren't in a playoff race. You eat some salary, and trade him like we did with Monahan. Probably getting back more than what we'd pay for him now.

See, you're guessing just as much as I am that he could or might not be "that guy". I've said from the begining that I'm interested in Laine. But not at any cost, and I'm definitely not interested in getting into any bidding war for him. I'm standing by the fact that I'd be interested if the offer for him is reasonable. Not a lot of teams are able to eat his whole salary. Which is my guess what Waddel is hoping for. Since he's already come out and stated that Laine would have been traded by now. If the offer(s) he received didn't involve CLB eating salary.

I'm not going to deny that there isn't any risks. If there wasn't, the cost for Laine would probably be out of our price range. Since we're still at a stage where we can afford to take some risks. If the ask for Laine is reasonable, why not pull the trigger.

But that's kind of what Engels said, they don't have much interest and it makes sense why they wouldn't (it doesn't solve anything long term without being expensive compared to what they've been intentional to do, the player himself has warts on the ice, there's the player assistance program and the fact this is one of the more difficult markets to re-establish yourself especially if you're the top earner on the team).

There's also a finite number of top 6 spots left now and in the future. I think they're really intentional about who and what that top 6 acquisition looks like and I personally don't think it looks like Laine.

They didn't sign Marchessault because of the term. They aren't desperate to push this thing forward if there's future implications which may impact their ability to be competitive long term. Laine is a similar case, the only way they'd be interested is if they got compensated to take him (Monahan) or if they were able to give up someone in the deal that had a term that was more egregious (Anderson or Gallagher). The value in a Laine deal for Montreal isn't the player, it would be setting themselves up for the future and CBJ doesn't seem interested much in a move like that right now.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I strongly disagree. Two scoring lines doesn't somehow get our team out of the goals against basement. Our 3rd/4th lines are weak, our defense is young, and our goaltending is below average. This is not to mention Laine's defensive mishaps, and we'd have to expect ALL our young scorers to stay healthy and increase their production from last year - which is improbable.

Maybe it doesn't, but it does take a lot of pressure off our first line. Right now if you shut them down, the team goes down with them.

Yes our 3rd/4th lines are weak. But by adding a Laine, or other good top 6 player. We can move players down a notch. Which would improve those lines a little bit. Add in the young forwards we have coming up. I don't think our 3rd/4th lines will be weak for long.

Our goaltending isn't the best. HuGo knows this, which is why we've drafted so many goaltenders recently. I'm not going to try and guess which goalie prospect will jump ahead of the others. But my guess is that it won't be Monty or Primeau leading us when the time comes.

I don't admit to watching Laine a lot. Who the hell watches a ton of Blue Jacket games lol
From what I've read from their fans. Laine's defense has actually improved since he's come to CLB. It's kind of like how Caufield took a lot of flak for his defense. But those of us that watch the games, have noticed that his defense has improved. He'll never be a Selke winner, but his defense isn't an issue.

 

[le_sean]

But that's kind of what Engels said, they don't have much interest and it makes sense why they wouldn't (it doesn't solve anything long term without being expensive compared to what they've been intentional to do, the player himself has warts on the ice, there's the player assistance program and the fact this is one of the more difficult markets to re-establish yourself especially if you're the top earner on the team).

There's also a finite number of top 6 spots left now and in the future. I think they're really intentional about who and what that top 6 acquisition looks like and I personally don't think it looks like Laine.

They didn't sign Marchessault because of the term. They aren't desperate to push this thing forward if there's future implications which may impact their ability to be competitive long term. Laine is a similar case, the only way they'd be interested is if they got compensated to take him (Monahan) or if they were able to give up someone in the deal that had a term that was more egregious (Anderson or Gallagher). The value in a Laine deal for Montreal isn't the player, it would be setting themselves up for the future and CBJ doesn't seem interested much in a move like that right now.

Marchessault is a veteran with Cup winning experience. They likely valued what he could bring as a leader. Savard is the only veteran on the team with similar experience. Laine doesn’t bring any of that. He’s not a young player anymore, he’s not a veteran. He hasn’t won anything. He’s shit defensively. He’s whined out of two teams. His only value is in goal scoring. That’s fine but it’s not the type of culture Hughes seemingly wants to build.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Marchessault is a veteran with Cup winning experience. They likely valued what he could bring as a leader. Savard is the only veteran on the team with similar experience. Laine doesn’t bring any of that. He’s not a young player anymore, he’s not a veteran. He hasn’t won anything. He’s shit defensively. He’s whined out of two teams. His only value is in goal scoring. That’s fine but it’s not the type of culture Hughes seemingly wants to build.

Yeah I'm saying they wouldn't go to longer term with Marchessault because they're being intentional with cap charges etc. For short term boons.

So taking on Laine who if he does hit is a rental or a cap stretching player on a re-sign doesn't fit what they're looking for.

The idea of Laine is tempting but this management staff gets it. Not every opportunity is the right opportunity. Imagine an Eichel like opportunity becomes available during the season but you can't fit that move in due to Laines restrictive cap hit.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

You seem to ignore the impact of injuries on NHL rosters.

No roster at the start of the season ends up fully healthy. Habs have been one of the most injured teams in the league the past few seasons. The end result isn't a reflection of the roster strength, but rather the end result of how that particular season unfolded.

We've lacked the depth of top 6 & top 4 talent to be a playoff lock, and still do, but the group today is improved in both areas heading into camp... That's what a large U25 core of high end youth provides and the main reason there was no need to make external additions to "keep up with the jones".


I get the impatience. I feel it to.

But look at the context and I think that the emotion is misplaced.

Most of the most active neighbors who made external additions also lost considerably talent (or have vet talent more likely to regress or plateau than progress). Each roster situation is unique, not all rosters need to add to be improved.

"Year 3" is irrelevant. The point is to build towards a contending roster. We are closer to that today than we were at season end... Red Wings are a great example of a rebuild that is stagnating in part because of poor UFA & vet trade additions that added nothing while creating unnecessary road blocks to U25 players who could/should be progressing at NHL level by now. Even though I was in favour of a vet middle 6 addition, or a swing at a Stamkos, I'm glad we didn't force the issue just to add someone for the sake of it.

The right fit (player, personality & contract) was way more important than adding at any cost. Bergevin did that often and we're still paying the price for that poor approach.



"My" top 6? Are you a Habs fan or not?

What evidence do you have that "no attempt" was made? I've seen commentary that suggests quite the opposite. I think you are conflating not finding the right fit with not trying to make an addition.

KH flat out started as much multiple times. And the offseason isn't over. Won't be surprised if we start the season as is, and, won't be surprised to see a movie before opening day. Either way, we are well on track with a better roster, prospect pool and cap structure than a year ago. That's what a proper rebuild looks like... Takes patience to enjoy it

I get where you're coming from and I'm well aware of our injury issues, but you can play that same game with everyone. What if Ottawa had Pinto/Norris for a lot more games? What about them now that they acquired an excellent goalie, which they haven't had since Anderson? Etc, etc, etc, for other teams. We just don't consider them because we remain focused on ours but we don't exist alone. We're not racers competing against the time in a lap.

We have way too many teams to leap to even finish 9th for me to proclaim that we're close without doing literally anything besides praying we remain healthy and literally everyone gets a bump. That doesn't seem realistic to me.

Personally, I find this off-season a lot more Bergevin-esque than anything prior. He was the kind of idiot who would refuse to make a move when necessary and just watch his team bottom out (early deadlines when the team was good, also when Price went down and we were in 1st place, etc.). I'm not comparing both GMs at all but this offseason strikes me as the first one where HuGo are clearly f***ing up on a decision here.

Yeah I'm saying they wouldn't go to longer term with Marchessault because they're being intentional with cap charges etc. For short term boons.

So taking on Laine who if he does hit is a rental or a cap stretching player on a re-sign doesn't fit what they're looking for.

The idea of Laine is tempting but this management staff gets it. Not every opportunity is the right opportunity. Imagine an Eichel like opportunity becomes available during the season but you can't fit that move in due to Laines restrictive cap hit.

Funny how times change.

When Eichel was available, he was called a problem child, an asshole and a quitter.

Regardless, remaining idle because 'what if this hypothetical 1st line center becomes available that we don't even know about at all' doesn't make any sense.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Engels parroting what some of us were saying in here - not only does Montreal have limited interest in Laine, is he in the right headspace to want the spotlight? Does he actually bring anything other than goals, which he’s scoring less of these days? Is he the right person to add to this young dressing room? It’s just not a fit.

He probably just read our posts and made things up from there.

(Just kidding Eric. But I know you’re reading. )

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

The only reason to get him is to flip him retained as an asset

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

But that's kind of what Engels said, they don't have much interest and it makes sense why they wouldn't (it doesn't solve anything long term without being expensive compared to what they've been intentional to do, the player himself has warts on the ice, there's the player assistance program and the fact this is one of the more difficult markets to re-establish yourself especially if you're the top earner on the team).

There's also a finite number of top 6 spots left now and in the future. I think they're really intentional about who and what that top 6 acquisition looks like and I personally don't think it looks like Laine.

They didn't sign Marchessault because of the term. They aren't desperate to push this thing forward if there's future implications which may impact their ability to be competitive long term. Laine is a similar case, the only way they'd be interested is if they got compensated to take him (Monahan) or if they were able to give up someone in the deal that had a term that was more egregious (Anderson or Gallagher). The value in a Laine deal for Montreal isn't the player, it would be setting themselves up for the future and CBJ doesn't seem interested much in a move like that right now.

It may come down to Columbus having to pay us to take him. We have the space for it and few other teams do.