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The Advanced Stats Thread Episode VI: RIP To Our Databases

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I wonder if there's any way to isolate effective hitting from running into things.

I like hitting. I don't like running into things.

Then again, effective hitters are probably decent at the numbers we already have.

But board battles +/- and turnovers caused by hit would be cool.

Soccer has an aerial battles +/-.
 
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Hopefully Josh Khalfin gets some time to spare so he can revive his microtracking project, was tracking board battles among other things, Fast was our best player in that regard if my memory serves me right.
 
Machinehead said:
I wonder if there's any way to isolate effective hitting from running into things.

I like hitting. I don't like running into things.

Then again, effective hitters are probably decent at the numbers we already have.

But board battles +/- and turnovers caused by hit would be cool.

Soccer has an aerial battles +/-.
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Josh Khalfin was working on a microstats project about this. Got sidetracked by school and stuff.

Would love to see him continue it though.
 
Machinehead said:
I wonder if there's any way to isolate effective hitting from running into things.

I like hitting. I don't like running into things.

Then again, effective hitters are probably decent at the numbers we already have.

But board battles +/- and turnovers caused by hit would be cool.

Soccer has an aerial battles +/-.
Click to expand...

Outside of watching every game and manually tracking it, the only way to do this via the PBP sheets is with a proxy. You could set something up that's like.... count of hits where the next event on the ice is for your team, and it has to be within 10 seconds, or something.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
Think it would have to be manually tracked for it to be reliable.
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I fear for the intern assigned to manually track this and it turns out it has provides no tangible usefulness. We know how to identify pointless hitting vs effective hitting. Does there really need to be the man-hours assigned to tracking that?

Although, all hitting is "effective". I mean, these guys are just depositing hits in their 'checking' account in game 1 of a series to make withdrawals in game 5 because the guys they're hitting are so tired now [andersoncoopereyeroll.gif]
 
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I think having a "board battles won %" stat would be useful. If you are running a microtracking project then you would track more then just that as you go through the games though. It would be one of several things you track.

I doubt the NHL would ever track this, but i'd be happy if someone does to board battles (and other things) what Corey has done to zone stats.
 
silverfish said:
I fear for the intern assigned to manually track this and it turns out it has provides no tangible usefulness. We know how to identify pointless hitting vs effective hitting. Does there really need to be the man-hours assigned to tracking that?

Although, all hitting is "effective". I mean, these guys are just depositing hits in their 'checking' account in game 1 of a series to make withdrawals in game 5 because the guys they're hitting are so tired now [andersoncoopereyeroll.gif]
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Hitting doesn't wear teams down.

Outplaying and out-possessing teams wears them down.
 
Question:

I was looking at Corsica the other day and I'm still trying to understand all of the columns, but the way I read it, all of the top 10 players (Possession-wise) last year were either on L.A. or Bos. Is that possible?
 
chosen said:
Question:

I was looking at Corsica the other day and I'm still trying to understand all of the columns, but the way I read it, all of the top 10 players (Possession-wise) last year were either on L.A. or Bos. Is that possible?
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Yes, that's possible.. That's also why you don't use raw CF% when evaluating players.
 
chosen said:
Question:

I was looking at Corsica the other day and I'm still trying to understand all of the columns, but the way I read it, all of the top 10 players (Possession-wise) last year were either on L.A. or Bos. Is that possible?
Click to expand...
I’d recommend looking at how that player was relative to their team. League-wide corsi still deviated, but the gap between the middle teams has been closing
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
Yes, that's possible.. That's also why you don't use raw CF% when evaluating players.
Click to expand...

What is the best way to evaluate overall with one column, if that's possible?

If not, how does one understand what is worthwhile and what isn't?
 
chosen said:
What is the best way to evaluate overall with one column, if that's possible?

If not, how does one understand what is worthwhile and what isn't?
Click to expand...

There is no one column stat that i trust yet. There are some good WAR like models out there but they all have flaws and none should be used exclusively imo... Best way to evaluate players via stats is to use as many stats as possible, then it comes down to which stat you value higher then others. Personally i mostly look at relative stats and rate stats (/60 for example)
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
There is no one column stat that i trust yet. There are some good WAR like models out there but they all have flaws and none should be used exclusively imo... Best way to evaluate players via stats is to use as many stats as possible, then it comes down to which stat you value higher then others. Personally i mostly look at relative stats and rate stats (/60 for example)
Click to expand...

This whole science sure seems to be in its infancy stage, which is in no way a knock. It's just that the way some toss around opinions about what it all means is less of a scientific fact and more of an opinion, at this point. Like all things, I suspect that as it's refined it will be more objective than it is now.
 
silverfish said:
okay never mind I am hella struggling to get a gif into this post :laugh:
giphy.gif
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I don't totally agree. Duguay, who I always felt was an incredibly overrated player, managed to stink up the +/- category wherever he played.
 
chosen said:
This whole science sure seems to be in its infancy stage, which is in no way a knock. It's just that the way some toss around opinions about what it all means is less of a scientific fact and more of an opinion, at this point. Like all things, I suspect that as it's refined it will be more objective than it is now.
Click to expand...

The stats are good and 100% objective, it's how people use them that might not me good.
The best way to do it is to read up on analytics as a whole and use lots of stats to help form your opinion, don't look for a one column stat, they'll never paint the full picture.

+/- is a useless stat, don't ever use it for anything.

Edit: Also, you seem to be doing it wrong. If you look for stats to support your preconcieved notions (+/- agreeing with your opinion that Duguay was overrated in this case) then you're doing it wrong.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
The stats are good and 100% objective, it's how people use them that might not me good.
The best way to do it is to read up on analytics as a whole and use lots of stats to help form your opinion, don't look for a one column stat, they'll never paint the full picture.

+/- is a useless stat, don't ever use it for anything.
Click to expand...

Of course the stats are objective and of course the interpretation is subjective. That was my point.
 
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