The Adam Larsson Project

[VaxjoDevil]

The politics involve giving Merrill the change to play through mistakes while Larsson doesn't. There have been plenty of mistakes from Merrill, especially of late. That is not to say he's played outright poorly, but part of the learning curve. Larsson should be treated the same as well. Even last year, Larsson and even at times Fayne sitting for Peter Harrold!!!

The politics also involve playing Salvador who has been total junk. He brings zero to the table and even at his best, is a good penalty killer and thats it. Why? Because the organization is afraid of pissing off its late 30's captain who wont even be playing in a couple years? So they jeopardize the career progression of their future players. Rightly or wrongly you have to be concerned with Larsson having personal ill will towards the organization god forbid the kid ever blossoms. I think people often overlook that there may be some managerial reasons behind why this team cant keep any of its free agents

There will always be a moment in a young player's NHL career (if he makes it that is) when he puts together a long enough string of games where he plays by the coach's book and solidly so. Until then, a young player is only as good as his last game. Merrill did that, and has earned DeBoer's trust to play through rough patches. Larsson and Gelinas have not.

It's not politics, it's how every coach works.

 

[wellonegm05*]

There will always be a moment in a young player's NHL career (if he makes it that is) when he puts together a long enough string of games where he plays by the coach's book and solidly so. Until then, a young player is only as good as his last game. Merrill did that, and has earned DeBoer's trust to play through rough patches. Larsson and Gelinas have not.

It's not politics, it's how every coach works.

There will always be a moment in a young player's NHL career (if he makes it that is) when he puts together a long enough string of games where he plays by the coach's book and solidly so. Until then, a young player is only as good as his last game. Merrill did that, and has earned DeBoer's trust to play through rough patches. Larsson and Gelinas have not.

It's not politics, it's how every coach works.

What exactly did Merrill do differently than Larsson? Not get injured? From day one Merrill has been given a permanent spot. He has done nothing that has stood out head and shoulders from anything Larsson did while playing. Both have had good stretches and both have had a couple mistakes here and there although not many. The knock on Larsson has been that he is soft. Larsson is more phyiscal then Merrill. Both defensively and offensively they are about the same. Merrill is a better skater, thats it. Acting like Merrill jumped in and did a Severson is ridiculous. Merrill just never had to worry about being punished for rookie mistakes.

 

[MadDevil]

Larsson never really had to worry about being punished for rookie mistakes either. He averaged 20 minutes a night as a 19 year old rookie. Then over 18 minutes a night his second year. It's just the last year or so where the leash has really gotten short. I don't know of it's a lack of progress, or something off the ice, or what that's led to it. But, he had a solid game last night, so hopefully he can start to earn some of that trust back.

 

[tycobb]

I honestly don't remember Lindstrom making a name for himself until his mid to later 20's. I may be wrong.

Lidstrom put up 60 PTS his rookie year as a 21 year old. He got his first top 10 Norris votes his 3rd season as a 23 year old.

 

[AfroThunder396]

The thing that bugs me with Larsson is that his rookie year he was getting lots of two-way even strength time. Then in 2013 he was getting a lot of PK and shutdown ES minutes. And he was actually pretty good at it. I remember most people thought DeBoer was just seasoning him up and trying to develop his defensive game....but then nothing happened. Pete failed to reward him or give him any direction after that.

It's like Pete just gave up on him. Which is pretty crazy considering the leash he seems to give other players. He's quite simply a hypocrite and no one can argue otherwise.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The thing that bugs me with Larsson is that his rookie year he was getting lots of two-way even strength time. Then in 2013 he was getting a lot of PK and shutdown ES minutes. And he was actually pretty good at it. I remember most people thought DeBoer was just seasoning him up and trying to develop his defensive game....but then nothing happened. Pete failed to reward him or give him any direction after that.

It's like Pete just gave up on him. Which is pretty crazy considering the leash he seems to give other players. He's quite simply a hypocrite and no one can argue otherwise.

Well I guess we should close the thread down.

How is Pete a hypocrite in regards to Lars? He played big minutes his rookie year, and was continuously rewarded with more playing time that year because of his play. He was still played the following year, but his play regressed and so did his minutes.

He played 25 games out of I believe a possible 32 (something around there) of rather uninspiring hockey last year. He wasn't bad, but he was no where near his rookie year levels. Barring some stats that say otherwise I think people are misremembering his games with Gely. He wasn't bad, but he wasn't blowing the world up either.

Then he got hurt, Merrill came up, got hurt, came back and played pretty damn well. He earned more time with the big club. Lars was hurt for two months, he got hurt in November and didn't get assigned until January. He was not scratched or not allowed to play hockey. They liked Merrill's game better and kept him up and left Lars in Albany to work on his game. He was playing hockey with an Albany club that made the playoffs, which he also took part in.

He came to camp this year, it was noted day one none of the kids jobs were safe. He had an ok camp. Merrill got hurt, but when he played he had a good camp (dig up the GDTs, not a bad word was said about Merrill's camp). Gely had an ok camp, and Severson had a good camp.

It was allegedly close but they decided to dump Harrold and keep all 4 kids in the NHL. Since then Merrill had a good start to his year and has slowed up a bit the last couple of games, Gely has been better, and Severson has blown the roof off the place. Lars played two games. He had one game that was ok, and one (last night) that was good.

He was rewarded for his good play last night getting shifts while Sal was benched in the third, and playing in OT as well. All accounts he will get rewarded and play again tomorrow.

So what am I missing?

 

[MadDevil]

What you're missing is that it's Pete and some people are so blinded by their hatred for him that everything that goes wrong has to be his fault. Which completely ignores the multitude of factors that have led to Larsson's current situation. It's just easier to say the coach doesn't like him.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Also where is Lou in all of this? Lou watches all the games. Has watched some of the best defenders develop over the years.

He makes the decisions on matters beyond the 23 man roster and he sent and kept Lars in Albany. Does Lou hate him too?

 

[Devils1029]

What you're missing is that it's Pete and some people are so blinded by their hatred for him that everything that goes wrong has to be his fault. Which completely ignores the multitude of factors that have led to Larsson's current situation. It's just easier to say the coach doesn't like him.

i think it seems like it;s more a lack of communication. Deboer said he wanted larsson go play physical, make a good outlet pass, and not be -5 after a few games. When has larsson ever been a physical dman? That's not his game yet that's what Deboer wants.

larsson played a solid, physical game last night and credit to him. I think it's just that Larsson doesn't know what Pete want from him and he's mentioned as much numerous times. Pete is not a great communicator and I think that's obvious. I's really no nurturing at all, no guidance, nothing. Larsson's peers drafted the same year as him (Landeskog and Brodin, 2nd and 10th) both are making many millions more than Larsson right now. Yes, partly his fault, but I also think this coach isn't the great at telling him what he expects from him in order to stay in the lineup and then helping to develop into that type of player.

 

[OmNomNom]

well maybe last night's performance is what PDB wanted out of lars. maybe he thought larsson COULD develop a defensive game, and here we are, with him seemingly playing tmrw night

ugh poor gelly. i wish we were playing 7 d, but that would prob make forwards upset as well, esp considering our need for offense

 

[NJDevs26]

In a few games we're gonna be complaining about Gelly sitting out too lol...so might his wackjob agent for that matter.

 

[Emperoreddy]

In a few games we're gonna be complaining about Gelly sitting out too lol...so might his wackjob agent for that matter.

That or someone will come down with the case of mysterious lower body injuries.

 

[Devils1029]

Zidlicky really should be sitting and Gelly playing. Gelly gets out of position but Zidlicky is a 10+ year verteran who continue s to make mistakes, take bad penalties, get caught behind the play, turn the puck over, etc. etc. etc.

The issue is that if you bench Zidlicky then Merrill needs to move over to the right side, which is off for him...not sure if that makes up the difference between Gelly ad Zidlicky...tough spot to be in. I'm just glad that Larsson is making it tough on him. Hope Larsson scores tomorrow...

 

[RSeen]

Zidlicky really should be sitting and Gelly playing. Gelly gets out of position but Zidlicky is a 10+ year verteran who continue s to make mistakes, take bad penalties, get caught behind the play, turn the puck over, etc. etc. etc.

The issue is that if you bench Zidlicky then Merrill needs to move over to the right side, which is off for him...not sure if that makes up the difference between Gelly ad Zidlicky...tough spot to be in. I'm just glad that Larsson is making it tough on him. Hope Larsson scores tomorrow...

Are you actually suggesting benching Zidlicky? LOL. He has been fine. A few defensive mistakes but he does a lot of things offensively well. There is 0 reason to bench him. He only has 2 minors, so I don't know where you get that he takes bad penalties.

 

[NJDevs26]

If they ever get to a point where they feel compelled to bench Zidlicky they might as well trade him to get value back, play Larsson/Gelinas full time and bring back Harrold as the #7. Problem with benching/trading him (besides the fact he still adds a lot offensively) is you might upset the Czech block in the locker room.

 

[MadDevil]

i think it seems like it;s more a lack of communication. Deboer said he wanted larsson go play physical, make a good outlet pass, and not be -5 after a few games. When has larsson ever been a physical dman? That's not his game yet that's what Deboer wants.

larsson played a solid, physical game last night and credit to him. I think it's just that Larsson doesn't know what Pete want from him and he's mentioned as much numerous times. Pete is not a great communicator and I think that's obvious. I's really no nurturing at all, no guidance, nothing. Larsson's peers drafted the same year as him (Landeskog and Brodin, 2nd and 10th) both are making many millions more than Larsson right now. Yes, partly his fault, but I also think this coach isn't the great at telling him what he expects from him in order to stay in the lineup and then helping to develop into that type of player.

Or maybe Larsson isn't very good at listening/understanding what the coaches are trying to teach him? Communication works both ways. If he doesn't understand then he needs to ask questions. You can't just expect everything to come to you. And to make my self clear, I'm not saying he doesn't listen or isn't working hard or anything like that. Just that we don't know what goes on in practices, team meetings, etc. We don't know what the coaches are telling him or how the communication is. Maybe it is an issue from the coaching staff, I don't know. Or maybe Larsson is just a slower learner than some other kids. Only time will tell.

 

[MullerBrotenVerbeek]

Also where is Lou in all of this? Lou watches all the games. Has watched some of the best defenders develop over the years.

He makes the decisions on matters beyond the 23 man roster and he sent and kept Lars in Albany. Does Lou hate him too?

haven't you heard? The entire organization is conspiring to ruin Lars' career because they have a personal vendetta against him.

 

[tycobb]

Also where is Lou in all of this? Lou watches all the games. Has watched some of the best defenders develop over the years.

He makes the decisions on matters beyond the 23 man roster and he sent and kept Lars in Albany. Does Lou hate him too?

Keeping Larsson in the AHL was actually a good move. Pete has no idea how to develop a player.

 

[JimEIV]

Pete has no idea how to develop a player.

Except for Fayne(2nd year under DeBoer and just about all of his progression happened under DeBoer), Henrique, Merrill, Gelinas...Clarkson who became a 30 goal scorer under DeBoer...Gionta who got his start under DeBoer and Josefson who is playing better hockey right now than at any point of his career under DeBoer ... and Andy Greene became a #1 defenseman under DeBoer

Besides that you might have a point? Perhaps?

 

[tycobb]

Fayne was the product of Andy Greene and actually got worse each season under Pete. His best season was his rookie year playing under JL.

Henrique came close to matching his performances his rookie year playing with Parise and Kovy as a winger. Pete then moves him back to C where he doesn't look nearly as good. Pete is screwing with him as we speak this year.

Gelinas and Merrill both have taken a step back from last year.

David Clarkson scored 17 goals and 32 PTS as a 24 year old for Sutter. Oh and he was playing 12 minutes a night. You think Pete developed him as a 27 year old? He simply gave him more minutes and Clarkson had a fluky year where he scored double his average scoring rate for his entire career.


No doubt Pete is going to screw with Severson just like he seemed to have done with every other player. The only player to actually improve playing under Pete was David Clarkson. A no skill power forward who lacks basic skating abilities.

 

[NJD Kula]

Need to start up a thread for Gelinas soon as Larsson seems to be securing his spot in the top 6.

With all of the injuries to forwards now is the time to play Gelinas as 7th d, but when all healthy I don't see how this logjam is going to work out.

 

[Eric Sachs]

Except for Fayne(2nd year under DeBoer and just about all of his progression happened under DeBoer), Henrique, Merrill, Gelinas...Clarkson who became a 30 goal scorer under DeBoer...Gionta who got his start under DeBoer and Josefson who is playing better hockey right now than at any point of his career under DeBoer ... and Andy Greene became a #1 defenseman under DeBoer

Besides that you might have a point? Perhaps?

You're naming all these players that Deboer had nothing to do with.

Merrill is now developed by Deboer? The guy you are so proud of jumping right into the NHL and looking like a veteran? What exactly did Deboer do to help him there?

There's Fayne.. and somewhat Henrique. Otherwise, Deboer has done nothing for any of those players.

Naming Josefson

 

[JimEIV]

Greene's best season was last season and it not even close...when you look at Greene logging 25 minutes as a #1 last season, he has previously never seen anything like that...all of the players I named had their best season under DeBoer except for Josefson who appears to on track to something better than ever before.

 

[Eric Sachs]

Greene's best season was last season and it not even close...when you look at Greene logging 25 minutes as a #1 last season, he has previously never seen anything like that...all of the players I named had their best season under DeBoer except for Josefson who appears to on track to something better than ever before.

Having your best season under Deboer and owing your developing to Deboer are two entirely distinct things.

If we suddenly traded for Crosby and he put up 140 points.. is that all because of Deboer?

 

[JimEIV]

Having your best season under Deboer and owing your developing to Deboer are two entirely distinct things.

If we suddenly traded for Crosby and he put up 140 points.. is that all because of Deboer?

You seem to be under the impression that if a player played in previous league under a previous coach that is who deserves the credit for the development ....nothing can be further from the truth.

If that were true every rookie that has success was developed by their junior team or their AHL team...

The development process is very much a matter of when and how much...when to move that player to the next level and how much of a role that player should get or can handle ...whether you like it or not a player being benched is very much a part of development. Giving Andy Greene 25+ minutes a night in all situations last season is very much development...

You seem to think a coach makes a player better or he doesn't ...that's not how this works, it has never worked that way and it never will.