Larry Brooks: The 90 Best Rangers

[cwede]

You could make an argument that Messier 1.0 let the franchise fall into disarray when he left for Vancouver.

should never have happened, not sure who's to blame - Checketts?

but leaving after one season of Gretz,
and that decent playoff run (all the games they lost to Flyers were close late)
su@#ed

 

[KingDeathMetal]

Any Rangers all-time list with Lundqvist any less than 3rd behind either/both Messier and Leetch is bogus.

IMO he's going to go down as a Top 5-10 goalie all-time, and in all-time NHL player lists will probably be the highest rated mostly-career Ranger, either him or Leetch (not counting Messier, whose best regular season days were in Edmonton).

If Hank wins a Cup and/or Conn Smythe, game over, he's the best Ranger AINEC.

Some people (Brooks in this case) really don't fully appreciate what we have in him. We're watching one of the best to ever play man the pipes at MSG on the regular. But I think goalies in general don't get as much respect as forwards and defensemen despite their impact on the game being far greater.

 

[Maximus]

Any Rangers all-time list with Lundqvist any less than 3rd behind either/both Messier and Leetch is bogus.

IMO he's going to go down as a Top 5-10 goalie all-time, and in all-time NHL player lists will probably be the highest rated mostly-career Ranger, either him or Leetch (not counting Messier, whose best regular season days were in Edmonton).

If Hank wins a Cup and/or Conn Smythe, game over, he's the best Ranger AINEC.

Some people (Brooks in this case) really don't fully appreciate what we have in him. We're watching one of the best to ev,er play man the pipes at MSG on the regular. But I think goalies in general don't get as much respect as forwards and defensemen despite their impact on the game being far greater.

I'm in my early 50's. I never saw Frank Boucher, Bill Cook, Andy Bathgate play who are in Brooksie's top 10 so I have no idea other than looking at their stats like the rest of us how good they really were...I just don't. i'm sure they were great but I just don't know seeing their stats other than Bathgate's don't really raise any eyebrows at least for me they don't. I know they were very responsible for Cups won but I just don't know seeing I never saw them play and I don't recall many hockey historians saying how great they were like they do about guys like Maurice Richard, Jean Beliveau, Eddie Shore, Toe Blake....etc etc and others of those ilk I never saw play but who are revered in hockey lore. That's why this is so tough to do...these kinds of rankings seeing it really is all subjective.

That said and personally from my observations of Ranger players since I became a fan in 1970-1971 or around there, Lundqvist is the best goalie in Ranger history ahead of even Richter even with his Cup. Hanky from my eyeballs is more talented by a large amount than Richter no question in my mind despite how clutch and how good Richter was. But I'm not sure I can put Hanky ahead of those 3 guys I mentioned I never saw play. I'm not sure I can put Hanky ahead of Park, Ratelle, Gilbert and especially Messier either. So Hanky being ranked 10th is OK with me for now and I'll trust Brooksie seeing he's older than us and likely saw a guy like Bathgate play that he should be in the top 10. I have no clue about Cooke and Boucher as I mentioned. I'll take his word for it. I think when and if we do a another ranking thingie let's say 5 years from now, Hanky will have moved up to possibly in the top 6 or so seeing in my book no one can convince me that Messier, Leetch, Gilbert,Ratelle and Park aren't the top 5 Rangers I ever saw from eyeballs. Now someone who is maybe 70 years old or even 65 years old can maybe convince me that guys like Cook,Bathgate and Boucher belong there but one things for sure....Lundqvist is and and it's not even close that he's a better goalie than Richter was as much as I love Richter....

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Here's my hot take of the day:

Messier's second stint with the Rangers should automatically preclude him from the #1 slot.

I tend to agree.


Brian Leetch is my number 1 easily.

 

[Allan92]

Surprised to see Lundqvist that 'low' although he's still playing

Personally I'd have him third after Leetch and Messier

 

[haohmaru]

Any Rangers all-time list with Lundqvist any less than 3rd behind either/both Messier and Leetch is bogus.

IMO he's going to go down as a Top 5-10 goalie all-time, and in all-time NHL player lists will probably be the highest rated mostly-career Ranger, either him or Leetch (not counting Messier, whose best regular season days were in Edmonton).

If Hank wins a Cup and/or Conn Smythe, game over, he's the best Ranger AINEC.

Some people (Brooks in this case) really don't fully appreciate what we have in him. We're watching one of the best to ever play man the pipes at MSG on the regular. But I think goalies in general don't get as much respect as forwards and defensemen despite their impact on the game being far greater.

Leetch won a Conn Smythe, a Calder, -AND- the Cup. Not sure why a Conn Smythe and/or Cup would elevate Lundqvist to a "AINEC" position.

Messier should not be #1 - he spent more of his career elsewhere than as a NYR and I don't care what he "delivered" (which he wouldn't have without Leetch, Kovalev, Richter & Co.)

Right now, Leetch would have to be #1 in my book and Henrik top 5 and climbing.

 

[Larrybiv]

Those teams needed no anchor. They were remarkably poorly constructed. Messier 2.0 was PR move more than a hockey move.


I'm not sure what you blame him for teams that consistently ran out the like of Rem Murray, Joel Bouchard, Michael Grosek, Colin Forbes, Brad Brown, Jeff Ulmer, Alexei Gusarov, Peter Smrek, Eric Lacroix, Rich Pilon, Jeff Toms, Dave Karpa, Ronald Petrovicky, Dan LaCouture, Ted Donato, John Tripp, Richard Lintner, Greg De Vries, Josh Green, Mike Green, Karl Rachunek, Jamie Pusher, Layne Ulmer, Mike Siklenka, Benoit Dusablon, Jason MacDonald, Richard Scott, Lawrence, Nycholat, Bryce Lampman, Chris McAllister.

I'm off for some Pepto.

Who are they? Rangers fan for 40 years, and I literally recollect 3, maybe 4 of that list!

 

[Gardner McKay]

"Demanding" wasn't the best word choice. I have no way of knowing what the Messier/Low and Messier/Trottier dynamic was. I do remember media and fans wondering why Messier was still getting first line and powerplay duty despite his obvious struggles. Theo Fleury mentioned it too in his book. And the team results speak for themselves.

Something changed in him around the time he left for Vancouver. Messier 1.0 would never have let the franchise fall into such disarray.

Couldn't pull up any articles on him "demanding" ice time. You got me there. I did have fun diving into Hockey Rodent's old stuff, though.

Oh man. I miss Hockey Rodent. I was so bummed when he quit.

 

[Ori]

I think it`s odd that zuci didn`t make the list - he is special, but he is still young though with his 29 years. At least if you compare him against Ryan Callahan, but I`m aware he was a captain for Rangers earlier, and that means a lot obviously for sport journalists like L. Brooks.
But I think Zuci is a better quality player in comparison even though it`s hard to compare players due to size, skill set, and different physical attributes, speed, puck control, vision, finishing etc.
And it`s not easy to create such a top 90 list, but I usually enjoy his hockey articles so it`s understandable.

 

[Open Mind]

I'm in my early 50's. I never saw Frank Boucher, Bill Cook, Andy Bathgate play who are in Brooksie's top 10 so I have no idea other than looking at their stats like the rest of us how good they really were...I just don't. i'm sure they were great but I just don't know seeing their stats other than Bathgate's don't really raise any eyebrows at least for me they don't. I know they were very responsible for Cups won but I just don't know seeing I never saw them play and I don't recall many hockey historians saying how great they were like they do about guys like Maurice Richard, Jean Beliveau, Eddie Shore, Toe Blake....etc etc and others of those ilk I never saw play but who are revered in hockey lore. That's why this is so tough to do...these kinds of rankings seeing it really is all subjective.

For sure not seeing guys play makes things incredibly difficult. We did a painstaking ranking here a few years back of all-time NYR's by position and I still have my research on Frank Boucher. Important to keep in mind is that I'd watched footage from back then and, as best my memory serves me, defenseman did not leave the defensive zone and you could not pass in the neutral zone. So you basically had to skate the puck up and 3 forwards had to beat 5 defenders. Also only 1 assist per goal in the early days. Not easy to score points. So when you see a guy like Boucher notch 62 pts in 42 games in 1929-30, it is a huge deal and you grasp why his adjusted numbers for that season are 42-118-160.

Keeping point scoring difficulties of that era in mind, let's look at Boucher's killer performance for the Rangers first Cup win. Best of 5 series, NYR vs Mtl Maroons. Circus at MSG, all games in Mtl at the Forum (no bueno). Clint Benedict shutout in game 1, Mtl wins 2-0. Game 2 tied 1-1 end of regulation, Boucher delivers the winner in OT. Game 3, Benedict with another 2-0 shutout, Rangers have to win the next two. Game 4, Rangers win 1-0, Boucher with the lone goal. Rangers win game 5, 2-1, Boucher with both goals, NYR are Stanley Cup champions. Boucher delivered hard core, scoring all but one of the NYR goals in the series... against an excellent opponent who iced 5 Hall of Famers.

I'd also found a good article on Gretzky back then, on why he was the Great One, which did a nice job attempting to compare him to players across different eras. It said: "When counting adjusted goals, Gretzky falls to third all-time behind Gordie Howe and Jaromir Jagr. When looking at adjusted points, his four 200-point seasons adjust down to 170, 166, 163, 156 — still great but no longer singular totals. When looking at these advanced numbers, Gretzky finds himself on the same stage as Howie Morenz and Mario Lemieux and Frank Boucher." Adjusted stats are far from gospel, obviously, but this still speaks to what a great player Boucher was in historical context.

Boucher joined the Rangers at age 25, and here are his first five NYR seasons of adjusted scoring from Hockey Reference:

23-94-117
46-81-127
26-119-145
42-118-160
24-81-127

His career adjusted numbers at Hockey Reference are 1155 pts in 557 games, over 2 pts per game. Again, adjusted numbers are adjusted numbers, but they're perhaps the best we've got to compare different eras. There's obviously no viable way to compare eras. Especially that far back. But when you start to dig, you find a lot of things that indicate what a phenomenal player Frank Boucher was in the annals of hockey history.

Announcer Foster Hewitt, who I believe was calling Leafs' games when Boucher played and for 40 years did play-by-play for HNIC, made these comments while he was calling the '72 Summit Series: "The way the Russians play reminds me of the old Rangers, especially the line of Boucher and the Cooks. They were even better than the Russians. When Frank, Bill and Bunny were on the ice, it always seemed to me they had the puck on the string." An opinion, but an opinion from someone who actually saw Boucher play.

Lastly, from the Hockey Hall of Fame: "Boucher was inserted between the Cook brothers during the Rangers' inaugural NHL season in 1926-27. The unit jelled and exhibited an advanced level of play that surpassed all expectations. The Bread Line developed into one of the most formidable combinations in NHL history. They were such a perfect fit that New York coach Lester Patrick allowed them to devise plays at one end of the rink while the remainder of the team practiced down at the other." Crazy concept, but it seemed to work: they are commonly regarded as one of the best lines in NHL history.

 

[Tawnos]

Totally fine with Messier being #1. My dad and I were talking about this list and he said it perfectly. Leetch might have the best Rangers career, but Messier is the most important Ranger.

 

[eco's bones]

Lundqvist should be higher. I loved Richter but Henrik is hands down the best goalie in Rangers history.

To me--Leetch and Messier 1 and 2 is fine. The next 4 spots should be between Boucher, Bathgate, Bill Cook and Lundqvist in whatever order. Gilbert at No. 7.

 

[Maximus]

I forget and too lazy to look but was Kovalev part of this Brooksie Top 90? If not, he absolutely should be.

 

[TheGuarantee]

It is a shame Zubov was only here for parts of 3 seasons but I think he is being under rated on this list. He was almost a point per game defensive player for us.

That stuck out immediately to me. Also the fact that Staal is ranked higher than Stepan.

 

[Roo Returns]

There's definitely a games played impact on this list for guys like Staal and Girardi. Do this list over in ten years and who knows, maybe Vesey is like #20 with a few clutch postseason performances.

It was really funny I was thinking where's Eddie Johnstone on this list and then the guy shows up during the intermission report the other night