The 5 tanks are back at it!

[Zegs2sendhelp]

anaheim should be out of the bottom 5 soon. they have been at the rebuild a while.

Anaheims issue seems like coaching and getting free agents to sign here.

Pv basically went after every free agent

 

[westc2]

the league needs to make it a rule that you can't get a top 5 pick two years in a row.

 

[John Mandalorian]

It took the Avs 6 years after drafting MacKinnon to build a contender.

Just checked but the Avs had at least a .500 record in all but one of those seasons. They missed the playoffs three years in a row but their record most of those years doesn’t reallly serve as an example of tanking the way many seem to think.

 

[ohcomeonref]

the league needs to make it a rule that you can't get a top 5 pick two years in a row.

So that rebuilds take 10+ years instead of 5-6?

 

[Chinaski89]

It's because none of those teams have actually, truly, committed to a rebuild and still ice teams of overpaid, overvalued, and underperforming veterans. Those teams all missed the boat on when to start their rebuild.

Sharks finally did last year.

 

[PaulD]

You insinuate that every bad team is tanking. IMO - tanking is making your team worse in the goal of maximizing your chance for an early draft pick. The Hawks & Ducks have added guys to try and help the team be more competitive, it just hasn't worked. The Jackets had unfortunate set of circumstances with Laine deciding he needed a change in scenery and the terrible JG situation. MTL was counting on improvement in the young core, along with Laine who immediately got hurt, to take the next step. I don't think that any of those teams are "tanking" this year.

IMO - it's really hard to turn a losing organization around in the NHL. This isn't just a case where "theoretical talent = wins".
[/QUOTE
not insinuating

You insinuate that every bad team is tanking. IMO - tanking is making your team worse in the goal of maximizing your chance for an early draft pick. The Hawks & Ducks have added guys to try and help the team be more competitive, it just hasn't worked. The Jackets had unfortunate set of circumstances with Laine deciding he needed a change in scenery and the terrible JG situation. MTL was counting on improvement in the young core, along with Laine who immediately got hurt, to take the next step. I don't think that any of those teams are "tanking" this year.

IMO - it's really hard to turn a losing organization around in the NHL. This isn't just a case where "theoretical talent = wins".

Nope. I'm not insuating anything. I am agreeing with the thread poster that the 5 teams are tanking.
You are insuating theyvare just "bad teams"
Which they are.....bad teams tanking.
IMHO
cheers

 

[Devilsfan2326]

Well there were a few weaker drafts from 2018-2022 and there was never that much parity, fewer teams are trying to shoot for mediocrity.
If you can't control and defend the center of the ice it is hard to win, and there weren't many great center prospects for a few years, let alone great 200 foot centers.

That is true, the players from those drafts had a rough go of it too trying to develop during that time. Am I way off by feeling like there are way more blowouts recently where one team kind of just rolls over? Feel like there are more shutouts and lopsided shot totals? Where could I pull up a stat chart about this stuff?

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

These teams may think they know how to tank, but the Pens are on the way back to reclaim the crown, and soon:

Pens know the right time to tank. Going to be bottoming out for the McKenna (2026) and Dupont (2027) drafts.

 

[Esq]

Just leave us alone and let us suck!

 

[Enga Olly]

Oilers traded like last place in the Draft to keep Gretzky. Didn't come free. And we took advantage of the Racers who had issues paying, so we bought and signed that contract. League was sleeping and we took advantage.

Flip the odds to Best non-PO teams? So like destroy the entire purpose of the draft in every League in the world? Makes tons of sense.

I Would like to see someybing like european soccer. 2 lousiest teams drop to the lower teir league. Let's see tanking tben

 

[shaner8989]

I think you are kidding yourself if you don’t think at least one of these teams will be competitive in a few years.

You likely said this same thing the previous 3 years

 

[Crow]

You likely said this same thing the previous 3 years

Obviously not other wise this would already be a 3 year streak.

New Jersey and Philadelphia have been competitive from 3 years ago.

Seattle even made the playoffs.

So none of those fit your “going no where” statement.

 

[shaner8989]

Obviously not other wise this would already be a 3 year streak.

New Jersey and Philadelphia have been competitive from 3 years ago.

Seattle even made the playoffs.

So none of those fit your “going no where” statement.

New Jersey and Philly were not bottom 5 teams for 3 consecutive years. Your argument is out the window

 

[Crow]

New Jersey and Philly were not bottom 5 teams for 3 consecutive years. Your argument is out the window

They were bottom 5 teams 3 years ago. Whatever you are talking about is irrelevant.

 

[LuGBuG]

Anaheim had their best period of the year. Rebuild is over. Don’t contact me the rest of the evening please.

 

[tiburon12]

You failed to discuss the definition of success. Winning the Cup is a terrible measurement. One team wins the Cup every year. Was every decision by every team which did not win a bad one? You're making up stats to support a false premise. You can imagine any while you're at it: "How many times did acquiring the best goalie in the league result in winning the Cup? See???!! It doesn't work most of the time!! We shouldn't try to get a good goalie!"

Tanking and drafting future super stars results in media buzz, ticket and merchandise sales, advertising, making the team more attractive for good coaches and players as a destination, points and wins, the list goes on.

If you actually did analysis and came to the conclusion that multiple very bad seasons actually do more harm to the franchise compared to the eventual upswing made possible by high first and 2nd round picks then you'd got something, but all you said is duh see they don't win the Cup that often. Duh, winning the cup requires hundreds of things to go right, not only getting a star player, despite it surely being a big help.

Is winning the cup not the ultimate measure of success? Do teams not tear down their rosters to the studs in pursuit of a cup? Isn;'t that the entire point of owning and operating a franchise.

The definition of a "successful rebuild" is pretty clearly if the rebuild resulted in a cup. That much is implied by any logical fan. Similarly, if a team did a "reset and refresh", you judge the success of that strategic decision on whether it resulted in a cup.

If you are measuring "success" by something other than winning the cup than you have a loser mentality.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

The vast majority of teams you listed were not tanking in the same way the current bottom 5 are tanking.

There is a massive difference between "being bad" and "purposefully trading everyone over the age of 23 and icing an AHL roster"

Hawks, Pens, Kings and Lightning all had some really bad teams for an extended period of time.

 

[SheldonJPlankton]

Unless you believe that Carey Price is NHL ready, how can you believe that the Habs are intentionally tanking?

 

[shaner8989]

They were bottom 5 teams 3 years ago. Whatever you are talking about is irrelevant.

lol read the thread. It’s teams who have been in the bottom 5 for 3 straight years. Every team you mentioned does not fit the criteria.

 

[WarriorofTime]

New Jersey and Philly were not bottom 5 teams for 3 consecutive years. Your argument is out the window

Teams like Red Wings, Senators, Kings were the tanky teams five years ago. The lotto was the most unforgiving then as well. Ottawa's Stutzle pick wasn't even their own, it was San Jose's from the Karlsson trade. Detroit moved from 1st to 4th and Ottawa from 2nd to 5th.

 

[Crow]

lol read the thread. It’s teams who have been in the bottom 5 for 3 straight years. Every team you mentioned does not fit the criteria.

You said none of these teams would improve or be relevant in many years. I said you are kidding yourself if you don’t think at least one will be competitive in a few years. You argued with me.

If you need me to read something again for you I’m happy to oblige. Seems like you are struggling with it.

 

[x Tame Impala]

It seems like by and large the quality of these top ten picks has been pretty crappy since about 2019 or so.

 

[sabremike]

This entire thread should be placed on a desert island that gets nuked until it glows. The most hilarious thing is that the idiotic solution to the nonexistent problem ended up f***ing over the Red Wings (who LITERALLY decided to ride or die instead of rebuilding until their entire roster was totally washed) more than any team.

 

[shaner8989]

You said none of these teams would improve or be relevant in many years. I said you are kidding yourself if you don’t think at least one will be competitive in a few years. You argued with me.

If you need me to read something again for you I’m happy to oblige. Seems like you are struggling with it.

I don’t think they will be relevant in a couple years. None of them. 7 years? Maybe. So we do understand each other just have different opinions. All good.

 

[tiburon12]

Loaded way of looking at it. Nico Hischier is like 25. So much career to play, and all the number 1 picks after him are naturally younger. If the Devils get a Cup in the next few years with him and Hughes, suddenly the tank strategy is back on the menu?

Look at an 11-year portrait of players that have played long enough to see all or much of their career play out.

2003 - Fleury - Penguins: Cup with drafted team
2004 - Ovechkin - Capitals: Cup with drafted team
2005 - Crosby - Penguins: 3 Cups with drafted team
2006 - E. Johnson - Blues: No Cup with drafted team, but St. Louis wins a Cup 13 years later.
2007 - Kane - Blackhawks: 3 Cups with drafted team
2008 - Stamkos - Lightning: 2 Cups with drafted team
2009 - Tavares - Islanders: No Cup with drafted team
2010 - Hall - Oilers: No Cup with drafted team
2011 - Nugent-Hopkins - Oilers: No Cup with drafted team
2012 - Yakupov - Oilers: No Cup with drafted team
2013 - MacKinnon: Avalanche: Cup with drafted team
2014 - Ekblad - Panthers: Cup with drafted team

Expand it to Number 2 picks, you have Cups on drafted team for E. Staal, Malkin, J. Staal, Doughty, Hedman, Seguin, Landeskog and Barkov.

The only teams that have recent Cups without ever really doing the tanky thing were St. Louis (who is debatable as they picked 1st, 4th and 5th in a four year span from 06-09 drafts... and on paper is the most fluke-ish recent SCF winner in recent times) and Vegas (a not replicable case for how their original 'build' went to begin with which carried over and leveraged into sustained success)

The overall point, without getting into full data analysis, was that the perception that "tanking = future success" is faulty, especially when using the Hawks, Pens, and Kings as examples of it working in just a few years. Those examples are close to 20 years old now, when more recent examples show that it takes MUCH longer and requires way more than just getting a superstar atop the draft.

But to answer your question, if the Devils win this year, it will be 8 years since his draft year that they won, which is still double what it took Crosby or Kane. Tanking is not off the menu, just that the perception about what tanking entails needs to be adjusted.