The 2025 draft lottery Tank Wars - The Final stretch

[pvr]

The idea of Chicago being a “have” franchise only makes sense if you started following the league around 2010. Yes they had a stacked team for a time. What was their big privileged legacy before that?

Actually, the Blackhawks of the last 60 or so years has been a quite successful franchise aside from Cup wins until the recent run. Second longest consecutive playoff appearances in NHL history. Bill Wirtz’s destructive penny pinching historically limited the team up to the sell-off in the late 90’s, when he completely tore it down. The rebuild took a decade, and was only complete when the old curmudgeon died.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Actually, the Blackhawks of the last 60 or so years has been a quite successful franchise aside from Cup wins until the recent run. Second longest consecutive playoff appearances in NHL history. Bill Wirtz’s destructive penny pinching historically limited the team up to the sell-off in the late 90’s, when he completely tore it down. The rebuild took a decade, and was only complete when the old curmudgeon died.

Playoff appearances in an era when 16/21 teams made the playoffs.

Taking the wide lens — in nearly 100 years, Chicago has had two runs of consistent relevance.

- 1960-74, the Hull-Mikita years when they won one Cup and gained a reputation for playoff choking.​

​

- 2009-17, the Kane-Toews years when they were legitimately one of the great teams.​

​

Outside of those two runs, they’ve played around 75 other seasons resulting in 2 Cups, one of which was arguably the biggest fluke of all time by a .385 team. Outside of those runs, they’ve only really had one good team construction, briefly in the early 90s before they were torn apart by Wirtz’s nonsense. And the great majority of the time prior to 1960 they were basically a farm team for the Norris family and place where players could be exiled if they didn’t sign team-friendly contracts in Detroit or New York.

Again, this is where I pin someone’s fandom to around 2010 if they think of the Hawks as a “have” franchise. As of 2010, they were a team that had one Cup since the 1930s and zero since the 1960s, with nearly the entirety of their existence being a tragic waste by bad owners.

 

[Jared Grayden]

Im not saying it is rigged at all. But there has always been have and have-not franchises. And the Pens and Hawks are the haves. The Blue Jackets , Sabres and Canucks are have nots. The next 20 years won't look much different than the last 20 years for all of these teams. It's just the way it is

If you believe that then why do you even follow the league? Also, what draft lotto have the Penguins won by jumping teams with higher percentage chances?

 

[pvr]

Playoff appearances in an era when 16/21 teams made the playoffs.

Taking the wide lens — in nearly 100 years, Chicago has had two runs of consistent relevance.

- 1960-74, the Hull-Mikita years when they won one Cup and gained a reputation for playoff choking.​

​

- 2009-17, the Kane-Toews years when they were legitimately one of the great teams.​

​

Outside of those two runs, they’ve played around 75 other seasons resulting in 2 Cups, one of which was arguably the biggest fluke of all time by a .385 team. Outside of those runs, they’ve only really had one good team construction, briefly in the early 90s before they were torn apart by Wirtz’s nonsense. And the great majority of the time prior to 1960 they were basically a farm team for the Norris family and place where players could be exiled if they didn’t sign team-friendly contracts in Detroit or New York.

Again, this is where I pin someone’s fandom to around 2010 if they think of the Hawks as a “have” franchise. As of 2010, they were a team that had one Cup since the 1930s and zero since the 1960s, with nearly the entirety of their existence being a tragic waste by bad owners.

There’s no doubt that they were poorly run up to the mid-late sixties, capped by trading Phil Esposito, and barely better run afterwards. The early 90s saw very competitive teams, as well as the late 60s to mid 70s, which coincided with my childhood. Wirtz was reviled by the fans for decades after letting Hull go to the WHA, the apex of his penny pinching, though there are other countless examples. Booed at his moment of silence at the UC after his death. A sad legacy.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Playoff appearances in an era when 16/21 teams made the playoffs.

Taking the wide lens — in nearly 100 years, Chicago has had two runs of consistent relevance.

- 1960-74, the Hull-Mikita years when they won one Cup and gained a reputation for playoff choking.​

​

- 2009-17, the Kane-Toews years when they were legitimately one of the great teams.​

​

Outside of those two runs, they’ve played around 75 other seasons resulting in 2 Cups, one of which was arguably the biggest fluke of all time by a .385 team. Outside of those runs, they’ve only really had one good team construction, briefly in the early 90s before they were torn apart by Wirtz’s nonsense. And the great majority of the time prior to 1960 they were basically a farm team for the Norris family and place where players could be exiled if they didn’t sign team-friendly contracts in Detroit or New York.

Again, this is where I pin someone’s fandom to around 2010 if they think of the Hawks as a “have” franchise. As of 2010, they were a team that had one Cup since the 1930s and zero since the 1960s, with nearly the entirety of their existence being a tragic waste by bad owners.

You're not wrong but the Hawks play in a great market that has proven to generate excellent viewership numbers when they're in the playoffs. I don't think the lottery is rigged at all but the argument for it is supported by the notion the league would rather have the Blackhawks on national TV competing for Cups than the Blue Jackets. The Hawks are a "have" team in that regard.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You're not wrong but the Hawks play in a great market that has proven to generate excellent viewership numbers when they're in the playoffs. I don't think the lottery is rigged at all but the argument for it is supported by the notion the league would rather have the Blackhawks on national TV competing for Cups than the Blue Jackets. The Hawks are a "have" team in that regard.

I totally get that they’re a big market team. I just don’t see any actual evidence of league favoritism toward them, other than maybe Winter Classic dates.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I just want Misa on the Hawks to play with Bedard.

What Chicago needs after Misa is a checking forward on right-wing who can also jump into plays.

 

[DaveG]

So, if the Sharks win the lottery this year, they can't win next year? Is that the rule? They might wanna hope to skip a year........

IIRC I think that's only a factor for teams that aren't in dead last.

 

[Gnashville]

Not a conspiracy theory, just a law of the universe. Chicago and especially Pittsburgh will get the best lottery luck you've ever seen. It's exactly why Pittsburgh won't win this year and will instead win next year when there's a true #1 talent in McKenna at the top

McKenna should go ahead and look at houses in the Pittsburgh area. Everyone knows he’s going to be a Penguin.

 

[Gliff]

I just want Misa on the Hawks to play with Bedard.

What Chicago needs after Misa is a checking forward on right-wing who can also jump into plays.

It's gonna be great when Misa is the biggest guy in the top 6

 

[sabremike]

The Draft Lottery is the perfect example of an attempt to solve a "problem" that only made the "problem" far worse and created new problems (like rigged draft conspiracies) on top of it. Stage One thinking at it's finest.

 

[RefsIdeas]

As a Sabres fan - it’s a little annoying we’ve decided to wake up just in time to potentially ruin a top 5 pick.

On one hand you’re happy the players are developing, on the other hand you wish they did this in December when there wasn’t 0 pressure on them.

 

[Gliff]

The Draft Lottery is the perfect example of an attempt to solve a "problem" that only made the "problem" far worse and created new problems (like rigged draft conspiracies) on top of it. Stage One thinking at it's finest.

Anyone who thinks the draft is rigged needs to get their head checked.

Of all the things to think are rigged, the draft that is run by a lottery company, audited by one of the largest accounting firms in the world (yearly revenue is almost 10x the NHL), and overseen by 3 reporters and representatives from 2 teams. All of this is done on video, that they release to the public.

Sure. Rigged.

Nothing wrong with having a lottery. The problem is having multiple teams move, and making it so the 10th worst team can get #1. The gap between the 10th worst team and the worst is huge. They should go back to the pre-2015 rules.

 

[ps241]

So a team can’t win the lottery more than twice in 5 years.

Quick questions if San Jose finishes in last place and ends up drafting 1st overall does that mean they won the lottery and does that disqualify them for next year? It’s not like they moved up to 1st overall pick? I assume they would consider this a winning of the lottery spot but I thought I would ask.

Also does a team that wins a lottery pick to move up to 2nd get impacted by this rule or is this a winning the lottery to move up to 1st overall only rule?

I took a quick once over on the rules and it didn’t seem to cover off these points.

 

[Gliff]

So a team can’t win the lottery more than twice in 5 years.

Quick questions if San Jose finishes in last place and ends up drafting 1st overall does that mean they won the lottery and does that disqualify them for next year? It’s not like they moved up to 1st overall pick? I assume they would consider this a winning of the lottery spot but I thought I would ask.

Also does a team that wins a lottery pick to move up to 2nd get impacted by this rule or is this a winning the lottery to move up to 1st overall only rule?

I took a quick once over on the rules and it didn’t seem to cover off these points.

It only counts as a win if you move up.

https://media.nhl.com/public/news/14767

No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club’s ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the Club moving down in Draft Order to the extent other Clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws. For purposes of clarity, the limitation would attach to the team, not the specific pick.

By way of example, if a Club were to win the first Lottery Draw as the 7th Worst-Finishing Club in Year 1 (thereby earning the First Overall Selection in the succeeding Draft), and the second Lottery Draw as the 13th Worst-Finishing Club in Year 3 (thereby earning the Third Overall Selection in the succeeding Draft), that Club would no longer be eligible to benefit by winning a Lottery Draw in either of Year 4 or Year 5, and would not be able to benefit again by winning the Draft Lottery (or either of the Draft Lottery Draws) until Year 6 at the earliest.

 

[Team_Spirit]

6-1, 8-1 weekend the Sharks really have no shame playing 4giev and this VHL goalie instead of Askarov.

 

[sabremike]

Anyone who thinks the draft is rigged needs to get their head checked.

Of all the things to think are rigged, the draft that is run by a lottery company, audited by one of the largest accounting firms in the world (yearly revenue is almost 10x the NHL), and overseen by 3 reporters and representatives from 2 teams. All of this is done on video, that they release to the public.

Sure. Rigged.

Nothing wrong with having a lottery. The problem is having multiple teams move, and making it so the 10th worst team can get #1. The gap between the 10th worst team and the worst is huge. They should go back to the pre-2015 rules.

It's just as ludicrous as thinking paid professionals will deliberately go out and intentionally play bad to get their team a top pick. The 2015 Sabres, who were LITERALLY HISTORY'S GREATEST MONSTERS and who did actively attempt to be bad (trade for Ocho Stinko, trade for injured E Kane, ect) actually improved on their prior season by 4 points. People always forget that fact.

 

[coooldude]

6-1, 8-1 weekend the Sharks really have no shame playing 4giev and this VHL goalie instead of Askarov.

View attachment 1003213

Askarov is hurt.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Askarov is hurt.

But other than that, no reason?

 

[Green]

Hopefully the Islanders can end the season on a 9 game losing streak to get thrown in the bottom 5 despite our incompetent GM and owners having a goal of forever mediocrity, also think it's BS Sharks and Hawks can deliberately tank or just suck and get great picks 2-3 years in a row, both those teams shouldn't be allowed to pick in the top 5

 

[Rebels57]

Hopefully the Islanders can end the season on a 9 game losing streak to get thrown in the bottom 5 despite our incompetent GM and owners having a goal of forever mediocrity, also think it's BS Sharks and Hawks can deliberately tank or just suck and get great picks 2-3 years in a row, both those teams shouldn't be allowed to pick in the top 5

The only restriction is that teams can only win the lottery 2 times in a 5 year period. Since they won the last 2 lotteries, if one of them wins it this season, they won't be able to win it again for a few years (2028 for Chicago and 2029 for San Jose).

 

[coooldude]

The only restriction is that teams can only win the lottery 2 times in a 5 year period. Since they won the last 2 lotteries, if one of them wins it this season, they won't be able to win it again for a few years (2028 for Chicago and 2029 for San Jose).

Teams can't move up. Chicago moved up from Bedard, so you're right that if they move up this year from 2 to 1, they will be ineligible to move up again. But the Sharks were last, and got the first overall pick. A team could theoretically do that indefinitely.

 

[Rebels57]

Teams can't move up. Chicago moved up from Bedard, so you're right that if they move up this year from 2 to 1, they will be ineligible to move up again. But the Sharks were last, and got the first overall pick. A team could theoretically do that indefinitely.

Ahhh I missed that.

 

[Gnashville]

Anyone who thinks the draft is rigged needs to get their head checked.

Of all the things to think are rigged, the draft that is run by a lottery company, audited by one of the largest accounting firms in the world (yearly revenue is almost 10x the NHL), and overseen by 3 reporters and representatives from 2 teams. All of this is done on video, that they release to the public.

Sure. Rigged.

Nothing wrong with having a lottery. The problem is having multiple teams move, and making it so the 10th worst team can get #1. The gap between the 10th worst team and the worst is huge. They should go back to the pre-2015 rules.

I will bet cash money right now that McKenna will be a Pittsburgh Penguin

 

[Brookbank]

If you believe that then why do you even follow the league? Also, what draft lotto have the Penguins won by jumping teams with higher percentage chances?

Because watching hockey in the evening sometimes is a nice way to kill a couple hours. I totally left hockey fandom for 4 years. After the Canucks the first team to get screwed by the new Oilers lottery rule.

I might leave hockey again. It would be fun if someone else had a chance. But the Lightning or Avs will win another cup. And there probably won't be a cup in Vancouver or Toronto for another 40 years. How could there be ?