The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[Fezzy126]

I'm not strictly looking at save% as a number. The number of saves that he's making that he really has no business making is shockingly high right now.

Over his last 5 games he has 3 quality starts, and in the 2 "non-quality" starts the team put up 15 goals of support for him.

It's been the opposite of our usual luck from earlier in the season, where our goalie plays lights out but we can't score, or we score 6 but our goalie gives up 7.

Also, @Jim Bob, a .911 save% would be top 13 in the league this year, so I don't quite think it's as sustainable for a goalie like James Reimer to keep it up as your implying.

 

[brian_griffin]

First off I said 2nd and 3rd line so you understand thats middle six with the players mentioned.

Benson, Zucker, Greenway, Quinn, Tuch, Kulich, Are middle six.

Peterka and Norris are 2nd line player playing 1st line roles

Tage 1st line player.

Like I said...2nd and 3rd line players. I said the team meaning NOT just the group of players mentioned are bottom 6.

The team has too much bottom 6 with Greenway, Quinn, Krebs, Melanstyn, Lafferty, Kozak, McLeod.

Most playoff teams guys like Zucker would be 3rd line players. The team is lacking talent.

Krebs would be lucky to have a roster spot on a playoff team or playing 10 minutes a game on the 4th line.

Kulich and Benson playing 1st line because the team is lacking talent.

Compare this team to other teams? Our 1st line players are 2nd line players and our 2nd line players are 3rd line players on good teams and so on.
View attachment 1003909

I disagree with your premise of essentially all the Sabres lines are elevated by 1 line above where they would be on other teams.
I neither need nor want a top line of #72-clone, #72, #72-clone. Thompson is borderline top-end talent. He lacks a 200-foot game and if he's not scoring his value drops off massively because he's not a strong puck possession player.

I agree the Sabres currently lack enough top-end forward talent. (Eichel and Reinhart were top-end / top-line forwards.)
With the right top-end talent - only a couple more - many of the players you malign would be adequate to pair with that top-end man.
You can throw average-to-above-average wingers with a 37-yo Sidney Crosby and he'll still elevate their counting stats by 33-50%.

Alternatively, you can get some of the middling talent to play consistently game in game out and/or play better in all three zones. Both those improvements are necessary, regardless of whether there is an influx of more high-end talent, by whatever means (draft, trade, free agency).

Why are we playing good now when the season is over ? And next season at the start we go back and play bad again

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Rip Simonick Van Winkle has awoken!! This "Indian Summer" of watchable Buffalo hockey has been an annual ritual, dubbed "Sabres Spring".

Part of the reason why I'd trade one of Byram/Power is due to the fact Dahlin can drag a corpse around as his d partner, and still be a net positive. Just give me a solid top-4 LD that plays a defensively sound game, and I'm happy. We don't need Byram at 8M and Power at 8M. Choose one, and they just need to be the driver on the second pair. Bring in two top-4 D men who are good two-way players to mesh with Dahlin and whoever is on the 2nd pairing.

I'd dangle Byram's and Power's names to see who can draw more interest, and use them as a major piece for a top-6C. Im sure Im not the only one thinking this way!

No. Keep Byram, move Power.

 

[brian_griffin]

Part of it is Reimer playing like he's Hasek reincarnated. Part of it is us playing against goalies who have BAD nights.

Once Reimer remembers that he's James Reimer and once goalies play average against us...........we'll be back to our usual meh results.

I continue to believe the hallmark of the Sabres resurgence (whenever that will be, hopefully before I die) is when they no longer draw the opponent's back-up goalie night in and night out.

Over his last 5 games he has 3 quality starts, and in the 2 "non-quality" starts the team put up 15 goals of support for him.

It's been the opposite of our usual luck from earlier in the season, where our goalie plays lights out but we can't score, or we score 6 but our goalie gives up 7.

Also, @Jim Bob, a .911 save% would be top 13 in the league this year, so I don't quite think it's as sustainable for a goalie like James Reimer to keep it up as your implying.

Unrelated to Reimer, that fact/stat highlights the dearth of goaltending in the NHL, and argues that UPL's off-year in '24-25 should not be the sole reason / deciding factor to malign him, move him, or give up on him.

 

[Chainshot]

I again would explore moving both of Power and Byram.

Interestingly in this Reimer stretch is noting how Power is currently their 4th or 5th defenseman in TOI over the last 6 games. I wonder if he's dealing with some physical malady?

 

[Der Jaeger]

I do wonder if it is some sort of blend of the pressure being off of the Sabres and other teams overlooking them a bit and thinking they won't play well because their season is all but over.

I think the mental part of the game (and life) is way overlooked. There's no pressure on the Sabres to win right now. I think that lack of pressure might loosen up some of the play (in terms of playing tight).

We feel entitled to those picks because we've been a bottom 3 team in the standings since December.

The team isn't "learning to win", they're just riding a hot goalie and a high shooting %. Underlying stats say they are still awful.

Since March 10th:
we are 8-4-0
30th in the league in 5v5 xGF%.
1st in the league in all situations shooting percentage with a 15.61%

We're playing the same garbage hockey that we've played all season. We're just shooting unsustainably high and Reimer has made some timely saves.

All of that may be true, but there are other parts of the game.

- The Sabres folded habitually when opponents pushed back on big Sabre leads. That's not happening
- The Sabres were soft as hot baby poo most of this season. Now, they are rushing to each other's defense almost immediately.

Those won't be recorded statistically, but are important parts of the game.

I think that both ideas are lazy.

There isn't evidence that teams "learn how to win" with a run of hot play down the stretch.

22-23 to 23-24 is a perfect example. They didn't learn anything AND Adams didn't have enough urgency in improving the roster in the summer of 2023.

Yet again, I am hoping that Adams has some urgency and can make the right moves to push the team forward. But, given how the first 5 seasons have played out, the good moves he's made have not been impactful enough. So, I am not having high expectations for this summer.

There's no evidence from prior seasons, sure. But Ruff hasn't been the coach in prior seasons.

After the All-Star break under Krueger, they went 8-9-1 (17 points)
Under Granato, first season, after the massive losing streak, 8-12-1 (17 points)
First full season under Granato, after the ASB, they went 18-15-4 (40 points in 37 games)
Second season under Granato, after the ASB, they went 16-12-3 (35 points in 31 games)
Third full season under Granato, after the ASB, they went 17-14-2 (36 points in 33 games)
First season under Ruff, after 4 Nations, they're 10-9-1 with 8 games to play (21 points so far in 20 games, total of 28 games for the sample size)

The record and points haven't changed much, aside from the difference in the COVID year and the 4 Nations year.

I'm looking at how the team is playing, not the record and result. Yes, they are winning a shade more but that's happened before. As I noted above, it's the response to being scored on and the response physically when challenged. Those are huge missing parts of the Sabres.

Just during the losing streak:
Crazy Colorado comeback from down 4-0
Winnipeg takes it to OT and wins
Detroit comes back from down 2 goals in the 3rd period and wins in the SO
Toronto overcomes 3-1 deficit to take 4-3 lead in about 2 minutes and 30 seconds

After the losing streak:
Colorado comes back from down 2 goals in the final 2:30 and wins in OT

After 4 Nations:
Tampa overcomes 2 goal deficit in last 2:30 to tie and wins in OT

Those are all footprints of a mentally weak team. I do think Ruff is making strides in that area. Again, I think the mental part of the game is overlooked, and there is work to do. But the reaction to other team's scoring and how they react to physical play is why I wrote what I wrote about learning to win.

 

[Jim Bob]

Over his last 5 games he has 3 quality starts, and in the 2 "non-quality" starts the team put up 15 goals of support for him.

It's been the opposite of our usual luck from earlier in the season, where our goalie plays lights out but we can't score, or we score 6 but our goalie gives up 7.

Also, @Jim Bob, a .911 save% would be top 13 in the league this year, so I don't quite think it's as sustainable for a goalie like James Reimer to keep it up as your implying.

I didn't say it was sustainable. Just that is more sustainable than the Sabres scoring 5.6 GF/G is.

A goalie with a .900 Save% playing at a .911% level (1.2% above average) is more sustainable than a team averaging 3.3 GF/G over 74 game continuing to score 5.6 GF/G (69.7% above average).

 

[Jim Bob]

I think the mental part of the game (and life) is way overlooked. There's no pressure on the Sabres to win right now. I think that lack of pressure might loosen up some of the play (in terms of playing tight).

All of that may be true, but there are other parts of the game.

- The Sabres folded habitually when opponents pushed back on big Sabre leads. That's not happening
- The Sabres were soft as hot baby poo most of this season. Now, they are rushing to each other's defense almost immediately.

Those won't be recorded statistically, but are important parts of the game.

There's no evidence from prior seasons, sure. But Ruff hasn't been the coach in prior seasons.

After the All-Star break under Krueger, they went 8-9-1 (17 points)
Under Granato, first season, after the massive losing streak, 8-12-1 (17 points)
First full season under Granato, after the ASB, they went 18-15-4 (40 points in 37 games)
Second season under Granato, after the ASB, they went 16-12-3 (35 points in 31 games)
Third full season under Granato, after the ASB, they went 17-14-2 (36 points in 33 games)
First season under Ruff, after 4 Nations, they're 10-9-1 with 8 games to play (21 points so far in 20 games, total of 28 games for the sample size)

The record and points haven't changed much, aside from the difference in the COVID year and the 4 Nations year.

I'm looking at how the team is playing, not the record and result. Yes, they are winning a shade more but that's happened before. As I noted above, it's the response to being scored on and the response physically when challenged. Those are huge missing parts of the Sabres.

Just during the losing streak:
Crazy Colorado comeback from down 4-0
Winnipeg takes it to OT and wins
Detroit comes back from down 2 goals in the 3rd period and wins in the SO
Toronto overcomes 3-1 deficit to take 4-3 lead in about 2 minutes and 30 seconds

After the losing streak:
Colorado comes back from down 2 goals in the final 2:30 and wins in OT

After 4 Nations:
Tampa overcomes 2 goal deficit in last 2:30 to tie and wins in OT

Those are all footprints of a mentally weak team. I do think Ruff is making strides in that area. Again, I think the mental part of the game is overlooked, and there is work to do. But the reaction to other team's scoring and how they react to physical play is why I wrote what I wrote about learning to win.

How did Ruff's teams in NJ and Dallas do in that regard?

 

[Der Jaeger]

How did Ruff's teams in NJ and Dallas do in that regard?

IDK, I can look later.

 

[Dahlicious]

I again would explore moving both of Power and Byram.

Interestingly in this Reimer stretch is noting how Power is currently their 4th or 5th defenseman in TOI over the last 6 games. I wonder if he's dealing with some physical malady?

100%.

 

[sabremike]

100%.

People should look at our organizational depth chart at the position so they can see what a catastrophically awful idea this would be (like Milbury on steroids bad). Moving one of them would be the logical and rational thing.

 

[OkimLom]

People should look at our organizational depth chart at the position so they can see what a catastrophically awful idea this would be (like Milbury on steroids bad). Moving one of them would be the logical and rational thing.

Without knowing what the return would be, sure.

 

[sabremike]

Without knowing what the return would be, sure.

Unfortunately we do...

 

[Chainshot]

People should look at our organizational depth chart at the position so they can see what a catastrophically awful idea this would be (like Milbury on steroids bad). Moving one of them would be the logical and rational thing.

Depends on the return. I've mentioned floating moving Byram to try to shuffle things with Vlasic from the Hawks as the target. Shuffle the composition since right now they have Dahlin and his partner - whoever it is - doing well and then defensively suffering with almost everyone else. Vlasic is a guy who kills plays on his own. MPettersson was the other thought but him going to Vancouver killed that, so now it's about finding people who aren't f***ing clueless in their own zone. And if they can keep their defense from experiencing cap creep, great. But the mix and performance for non-Dahlin folks kind of sucks and in Power's case doesn't justify his salary.

 

[toddkaz]

I disagree with your premise of essentially all the Sabres lines are elevated by 1 line above where they would be on other teams.
I neither need nor want a top line of #72-clone, #72, #72-clone. Thompson is borderline top-end talent. He lacks a 200-foot game and if he's not scoring his value drops off massively because he's not a strong puck possession player.

I agree the Sabres currently lack enough top-end forward talent. (Eichel and Reinhart were top-end / top-line forwards.)
With the right top-end talent - only a couple more - many of the players you malign would be adequate to pair with that top-end man.
You can throw average-to-above-average wingers with a 37-yo Sidney Crosby and he'll still elevate their counting stats by 33-50%.

Alternatively, you can get some of the middling talent to play consistently game in game out and/or play better in all three zones. Both those improvements are necessary, regardless of whether there is an influx of more high-end talent, by whatever means (draft, trade, free agency).


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Rip Simonick Van Winkle has awoken!! This "Indian Summer" of watchable Buffalo hockey has been an annual ritual, dubbed "Sabres Spring".


No. Keep Byram, move Power.

You can disagree but we have 1 first line player and Kulich and Benson are not first line players. They might be in the future but no they are not right now, they wouldn't even crack the top 6 on a real playoff team. Yet you think players aren't being elevated to roles that are above where they should be right now?

The best way to ruin a prospect is to put them into a position that forces them to either succeed on a top line or be a failure like they did with Power. Not saying that is what will happen to Benson or Kulich but Buffalo does have a habit of doing this.

Also its been musical chairs with the lineup since the beginning of the season. The only person on the roster whose position hasn't changed is Dahlin. Even Tage has been moved from center to wing. Peterka 2nd line, 3rd line, 1st line back to 2nd line. Tuch 1st line to 2nd line to 3rd line and so on, heck even Greenway gets put on the 1st line at times all the way down to the 4th line. I remember last year they even tried Krebs as the 1st line center. If people are in the proper or natural positions this wouldn't be happening. It happens on other teams too but usually when players are struggling or get hot they move up on the roster but not to the level that has happened on this team. Greenway on the 1st line is just throwing mud on the wall.

It happens because Adams plan was just to grab at whatever pieces he could and then everyone is moved around the roster hoping something clicks where other teams actually have a set top line or top two lines.

 

[Jim Bob]

People should look at our organizational depth chart at the position so they can see what a catastrophically awful idea this would be (like Milbury on steroids bad). Moving one of them would be the logical and rational thing.

Exploring moving either, or both, of Byram and Power, along with almost everyone not named Dahlin and Thompson, is a smart move.

The key is to have a solid idea of the type of roster changes they need to make to be more competitive next season and then seeing which path to go down.

But, they need to get a good handle on the potential trade returns they can expect on a variety of guys to make informed decisions with the moves they make.

 

[brian_griffin]

Perhaps I wasn't clearer in earlier reply. I reject the notion of Line 1,2,3,4 as the only way to construct a team, or top-line, middle-six, bottom-line. Too many injuries, scoring funks, shooting-handedness preferences, opponent match-up preferences move players through the lineup. I agree BUF needs a couple more top-tier players. They need more 3-zone 200 foot play from several forwards. They need better puck possession from nearly all their forwards. BUF would be just fine with a half-dozen 2025 Zucker or Greenway clones in the lineup.

You can disagree but we have 1 first line player and Kulich and Benson are not first line players. I would not expect a 19yo and 20yo to be 1st line players. They might be in the future but no they are not right now, they wouldn't even crack the top 6 on a real playoff team. agree with both statements Yet you think players aren't being elevated to roles that are above where they should be right now? I'm saying you can elevate players without disaster if your top-end talent on the line is a complete player and/or a consistent player, like Ryan O'Reilly or even an aging Crosby.

The best way to ruin a prospect is to put them into a position that forces them to either succeed on a top line or be a failure like they did with Power. Power's issue is that he has absolutely no evidence of defensive positional play. I don't see the dichotomy for the forwards. They are not being forced to succeed. They are being given the opportunity to succeed, and failing to various degrees, But they aren't losing the jobs / careers (???) Not saying that is what will happen to Benson or Kulich but Buffalo does have a habit of doing this.

Also its been musical chairs with the lineup since the beginning of the season. The only person on the roster whose position hasn't changed is Dahlin. Even Tage has been moved from center to wing. Can't play 3-zones of center responsibility, so moved to wing where his lack of 2-way play isn't crippling and he can focus on scoring. Peterka 2nd line, 3rd line, 1st line back to 2nd line. Tuch 1st line to 2nd line to 3rd line because Tuch can help elevate linemates more so than Tuch's other teammates. and so on, heck even Greenway gets put on the 1st line at times all the way down to the 4th line. I remember last year they even tried Krebs as the 1st line center. If people are in the proper or natural positions this wouldn't be happening. Ehh, with Lindy, he's always juggled. It happens on other teams too but usually when players are struggling or get hot they move up on the roster but not to the level that has happened on this team. Greenway on the 1st line is just throwing mud on the wall.

It happens because Adams plan was just to grab at whatever pieces he could and then everyone is moved around the roster hoping something clicks where other teams actually have a set top line or top two lines.

Maybe you're seeing a forest and calling it a group of trees, and I'm seeing a group of trees and calling it a forest.

I don't think having a set line or top two lines fixes the individual deficiencies of the particular players on those lines. And I don't think acquiring a couple top-end talents new to BUF and slotting the remaining Sabres still around after that acquisition into "lower lines" fixes or hides the deficiencies of the remaining individual players.

 

[OkimLom]

Unfortunately we do...
View attachment 1004680

So with that logic, it would be a catastrophic awful idea to move even one of them.

 

[toddkaz]

Perhaps I wasn't clearer in earlier reply. I reject the notion of Line 1,2,3,4 as the only way to construct a team, or top-line, middle-six, bottom-line. Too many injuries, scoring funks, shooting-handedness preferences, opponent match-up preferences move players through the lineup. I agree BUF needs a couple more top-tier players. They need more 3-zone 200 foot play from several forwards. They need better puck possession from nearly all their forwards. BUF would be just fine with a half-dozen 2025 Zucker or Greenway clones in the lineup.

Maybe you're seeing a forest and calling it a group of trees, and I'm seeing a group of trees and calling it a forest.

I don't think having a set line or top two lines fixes the individual deficiencies of the particular players on those lines. And I don't think acquiring a couple top-end talents new to BUF and slotting the remaining Sabres still around after that acquisition into "lower lines" fixes or hides the deficiencies of the remaining individual players.

The issue isn't "set" lines...its not about having a set roster. I never used the word set.

Its about the talent.

 

[HaNotsri]

Unfortunately we do...
View attachment 1004680

Something feels different about this photo but I can't tell what it is.

 

[DJN21]

People should look at our organizational depth chart at the position so they can see what a catastrophically awful idea this would be (like Milbury on steroids bad). Moving one of them would be the logical and rational thing.

Im fine with Johnson finally being given a fair look. Metsa should already be our Bryson. Komarov and novikov have looked fine on arguably the best ahl team. Strbk is coming. We have draft capital....

 

[sabremike]

Im fine with Johnson finally being given a fair look. Metsa should already be our Bryson. Komarov and novikov have looked fine on arguably the best ahl team. Strbk is coming. We have draft capital....

We really aren't in a position to wait a few years for guys to develop while continuing to be eliminated by Christmas.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'm not strictly looking at save% as a number. The number of saves that he's making that he really has no business making is shockingly high right now.

Per Moneypuck, his Goals Saved Above Expected per 60 is 0.459 this season and 0.531 over the last 10 games.

He is playing better. But, not moreso than the bump you usually see when a goalie has a mildly hot streak.

Also, of note, his xSave% on Unblocked Shots has seen a bump over his last 10 games, as well.

 

[Zman5778]

Per Moneypuck, his Goals Saved Above Expected per 60 is 0.459 this season and 0.531 over the last 10 games.

This is exactly why I absolutely despise this stat. There's ZERO way you can watch Reimer's last 10 games and say that he's only saved HALF of a goal above expected. Dude has made 2 or 3 saves PER GAME that should have been goals that weren't.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I again would explore moving both of Power and Byram.

Interestingly in this Reimer stretch is noting how Power is currently their 4th or 5th defenseman in TOI over the last 6 games. I wonder if he's dealing with some physical malady?

Byram might’ve struggled at first when separated from Dahlin but I think you’d be crazy to trade him now. He’s been very good - at least as good as any potential replacement.

I’d prefer to commit to him long term, knowing how hard it is to draft and develop Dmen…even harder to trade for them.

Power, on the other hand, has been basically a third pairing offensive specialist lately…the type that really makes your coach have do a lot of work to make sure you’re minutes are helping the team instead of hurting. He’s still young but I’d prefer to move on from a player like that - even knowing he’ll keep developing.

In other words, Power is our Cozens on defense. Trade Power, Sammy, and Quinn, and find another top 6 winger and RHD. Shouldn’t actually be that hard!

 

[Der Jaeger]

I again would explore moving both of Power and Byram.

Interestingly in this Reimer stretch is noting how Power is currently their 4th or 5th defenseman in TOI over the last 6 games. I wonder if he's dealing with some physical malady?

I'd explore both but for different reasons.

Depends on the return. I've mentioned floating moving Byram to try to shuffle things with Vlasic from the Hawks as the target. Shuffle the composition since right now they have Dahlin and his partner - whoever it is - doing well and then defensively suffering with almost everyone else. Vlasic is a guy who kills plays on his own. MPettersson was the other thought but him going to Vancouver killed that, so now it's about finding people who aren't f***ing clueless in their own zone. And if they can keep their defense from experiencing cap creep, great. But the mix and performance for non-Dahlin folks kind of sucks and in Power's case doesn't justify his salary.

I'd look at moving Byram in a deal to change the dynamic of the defensive corps. Dahlin could feasibly run PP1 and PP2 if Byram and Power are moved, so I don't see an issue. So, agree with the idea.

Byram might’ve struggled at first when separated from Dahlin but I think you’d be crazy to trade him now. He’s been very good - at least as good as any potential replacement.

I’d prefer to commit to him long term, knowing how hard it is to draft and develop Dmen…even harder to trade for them.

Power, on the other hand, has been basically a third pairing offensive specialist lately…the type that really makes your coach have do a lot of work to make sure you’re minutes are helping the team instead of hurting. He’s still young but I’d prefer to move on from a player like that - even knowing he’ll keep developing.

In other words, Power is our Cozens on defense. Trade Power, Sammy, and Quinn, and find another top 6 winger and RHD. Shouldn’t actually be that hard!

I'd like to move Power but for a different reason. I think he's a huge asset for the team but is being wasted. With his talent, you really want to build a defensive corps around him. Basically go get Marcus Pettersson's, Vlasic's, Weegar's, etc and have Power as the defensive cornerstone. Feed him PP1 and PP2 minutes. Run the offense through him.

With Dahlin on the team, he's not getting PP1 minutes, and there's not enough around him to support him. So Ruff moves him to the 3rd pairing and that shelters him. But if Power is basically the team's Jason Woolley, that's a huge asset mismanagement.

I'd explore moving him because the Sabres are misusing him, because of Dahlin's role as 1D. No issues with the player right now, as he's 22 years old and can fix some of his issues. But I think the Sabres could move him to a Western Conference team which doesn't have a true 1D (Anaheim, Calgary, San Jose, Seattle, St. Louis) and address other areas on the team.