The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[jc17]

Consistency is the issue. I would expect them to show up on occasion but also disappear other nights or be flat out bad as well. I am high on Benson but he’s definitely been quiet offensively for long stretches this season. Im even higher on Kulich but he’s struggled defensively for extended periods of time.

And those 2 are probably the 2 young guys who consistently bring it. Power, Peterka, Krebs, Cozens when he was here, highs were higher and lows were much lower. And Quinn has fallen off the face of the planet.

Oh I agree there, but we would all take a Benson clone over Quinn and Krebs right now even though he's 3/4 years younger than them. At the end of the day you just need guys that can play.

 

[OkimLom]

Power has more pure skill than Cozens, and Peterka has shown greater offensive ability than cozens at similar ages.

And, I personally still like cozens, and expect him to play 1000 games in this league.

You could also have said this about Thompson, who was almost traded for a 6th round pick before his breakout season. Peterka has probably the highest offensive potential of any forward on the team, and power has the frame and skill to be an all situations #1 D

Any trade of top end skill for role players is a loss. You trade for or sign role players, but you draft and grow skill. If we traded Peterka or powers for a package of role players, I’d be furious. It would be a waste of that talent. Trade prospects and picks for role players or overpay in FA.

I don’t think people realize we are truly pretty bare when it comes to top end talent, and losing Peterka and power makes that situation ever worse

I don't see where Power has more pure skill than Cozens. I'd argue they have equal talent overall, but Power's talent comes in a more robust/intriguing package. Cozens has a better acceleration and top end skating speed than power, I'd say he has slightly better puck/stick skills, but both guys are average in that department. Both players possess very low IQ and processing speeds. I would've said Cozens was the Power of the forward core.

I'd agree Peterka seems to have shown a greater offensive skillset than Cozens so far in their careers.

As for Power being an all situations #1D, sure he might be physically capable of being able to handle the #1D situations, but his processing and mental game to drive himself to play those minutes is lacking, which is the important part of that role.

Buffalo can't afford to trade any top end skill at the moment, because of the status of the roster, and the point of level of play, but there have been cases of top end skill being traded for role players, and teams just humming along smoothly (Seguin to Dallas for example). You draft and grow skill and role players. You sign and trade for players to IMPROVE the level of the roster, not to fill a need/role. When you are doing so to fill a need, you tend to overpay either through assets or money.

 

[jc17]

Both players possess very low IQ and processing speeds. I would've said Cozens was the Power of the forward core.

Hard disagree here. Power sees way more of the ice and can anticipate plays that cozens struggled with. Cozens had some vision in the offensive zone from time to time, in scenarios that it seemed they practiced a lot but I think decision making was typically a lot better from power than it was for cozens.

Aside from net-front defending, Power's biggest gaffes seem to be around the attacking blueline, which is exactly what plagued dahlin a few years ago. I feel like those will get worked out with experience.

 

[BuffaloGooner]

We’re still getting anti Power stances in here?

 

[Zman5778]

I know people love McLeod as a 3C, but I'd love to have him and Benson each on a separate line in the top-6 to help solidify those lines defensively while also bring some goal scoring. I've said it before, but I'd be hell-a-bent on finding a top-6C this offseason:

Just chicken scratching these lines:
Peterka- XXX -Benson
McLeod- Thompson -Tuch
Kulich- Norris -Zucker

If Quinn forces his way into the top-9, then Zucker and Greenway are the flanks of the 4th line, and Zucker is the savvy vet we move around the LU throughout the game to provide stability to a line when it's needed. I also view McLeod as an integral piece that can be moved around the LU depending on in-game scenarios.

I want that top-6C to be a veteran with solid two-way play. You essentially have three lines that can score, good center depth for injuries that will likely impact the center spine, and each line has a good blend of defensive play + grit.

In fantasy land:

There are continual rumors out of Minnesota that Guerin remains unimpressed with Rossi and wouldn't mind moving him (for some incredibly stupid reason). I floated an idea of JJP and Quinn for Rossi and something small.

We could then roll something like this:

Benson-Rossi-Tage
Kulich-Norris-Tuch
Zucker-McLeod-Greenway
Malenstyn-Kozak-Krebs
X: Lafferty

That's a solid center spine with a couple of guys (Tage, Kulich, Krebs, Lafferty) who can rotate into the center position when injuries inevitably hit.

The issue is/remains -- I'm not sure I love the idea of moving JJP or Quinn for an upgrade in the center position when defense is the critical need.

 

[OkimLom]

We’re still getting anti Power stances in here?

It's not necessarily Anti-Power stances, but more along the lines of seeing Power as a flawed player and pointing them out. While I was never a fan of his game, and I feel he's not as good as a lot of fans may see him as, I'm not actively rooting for his movement off the team or hoping bad things happen to the guy.

 

[CowbellConray]

I don't see where Power has more pure skill than Cozens. I'd argue they have equal talent overall, but Power's talent comes in a more robust/intriguing package. Cozens has a better acceleration and top end skating speed than power, I'd say he has slightly better puck/stick skills, but both guys are average in that department. Both players possess very low IQ and processing speeds. I would've said Cozens was the Power of the forward core.

I'd agree Peterka seems to have shown a greater offensive skillset than Cozens so far in their careers.

As for Power being an all situations #1D, sure he might be physically capable of being able to handle the #1D situations, but his processing and mental game to drive himself to play those minutes is lacking, which is the important part of that role.

Buffalo can't afford to trade any top end skill at the moment, because of the status of the roster, and the point of level of play, but there have been cases of top end skill being traded for role players, and teams just humming along smoothly (Seguin to Dallas for example). You draft and grow skill and role players. You sign and trade for players to IMPROVE the level of the roster, not to fill a need/role. When you are doing so to fill a need, you tend to overpay either through assets or money.

Power carries a clear advantage to Cozens on passing and offensive vision. Cozens is a look and shoot player, he isn't threading passes through traffic or with anticipation. Power does. Power is a very good transition passer who is cerebral enough to make the right pass out of the zone. Cozens cannot do that. He may skate well, but he doesn't have nearly the puck skill as Power.

Power also is fine when it comes to 1 on 1 defending, he isn't great at off puck defense, but his on puck defending really is not bad at all. Meanwhile, not only does Cozens struggle with off puck defending, his on puck defending is not great as he really has struggled with his physicality and leverage over the past few years.

Cozens excelled at transition puck carrying and volume shooting. Power can spring transition play with his passing and puck skills, and is very smooth in the offensive zone as a puck handler and passer. To me, they are in different tiers of players in terms of talent/skill

 

[Der Jaeger]

In fantasy land:

There are continual rumors out of Minnesota that Guerin remains unimpressed with Rossi and wouldn't mind moving him (for some incredibly stupid reason). I floated an idea of JJP and Quinn for Rossi and something small.

We could then roll something like this:

Benson-Rossi-Tage
Kulich-Norris-Tuch
Zucker-McLeod-Greenway
Malenstyn-Kozak-Krebs
X: Lafferty

That's a solid center spine with a couple of guys (Tage, Kulich, Krebs, Lafferty) who can rotate into the center position when injuries inevitably hit.

The issue is/remains -- I'm not sure I love the idea of moving JJP or Quinn for an upgrade in the center position when defense is the critical need.

I like the idea. I get the thoughts on fixing the defense, but if you can fix the center position, and have natural reinforcements on the wing, you've solved the biggest issue. With the way Ruff relies on his centers, it's the critical position.

Fix it, then think about the defense. Free agency could be the place to do it. I'd sign Fabbro, right off the bat, and then work from there.

 

[toddkaz]

 

[Fezzy126]

I've seen this posted before and it completely misses the mark. There is some serious revisionist history at work here by Chad and others...

• O'Reilly: In his last season here, he was -23 and under 50% in CF, GF, and xGF, his next season he was +22, won the Selke and the Conn Smythe
• Reinhart: Was continually panned by the fanbase about being too slow and only good at scoring on tips at the netfront, he was a -28 with a 39.5% GF% in his last season here. Since he's left he's been one of the best forwards in the world.
• Ullmark: Was injury prone and inconsistent here, Vezina level as soon as he left.
• Montour: Are we going to ignore that he was healthy scratched and played as a 4th line forward in his last year here? In Florida he was an elite play driving, puck moving defenseman.
• McCabe: Terrible defensive defenseman here, quality defensive defenseman in Toronto
• Risto: I don't think I need to recap what he did here. He's been a positive xGF% the past two years.
• Evander Kane: The three lowest on ice GF/60 numbers of his career were in Buffalo.
• Bogo: Injury prone out of position head case here, quality depth everywhere else

Eichel was the only one that was awesome on the ice before and after.

There are lots of other examples of guys that were routinely panned by the fanbase here and were functional depth pieces somewhere else. In fact, I remember creating a post on these boards during the Bylsma years that every player we acquired had a lower GF/60 metric here than any of their previous teams.

So yes, I personally do think the narrative from Marek fits here.

 

[jc17]

I've seen this posted before and it completely misses the mark. There is some serious revisionist history at work here by Chad and others...

• O'Reilly: In his last season here, he was -23 and under 50% in CF, GF, and xGF, his next season he was +22, won the Selke and the Conn Smythe
• Reinhart: Was continually panned by the fanbase about being too slow and only good at scoring on tips at the netfront, he was a -28 with a 39.5% GF% in his last season here. Since he's left he's been one of the best forwards in the world.
• Ullmark: Was injury prone and inconsistent here, Vezina level as soon as he left.
• Montour: Are we going to ignore that he was healthy scratched and played as a 4th line forward in his last year here? In Florida he was an elite play driving, puck moving defenseman.
• McCabe: Terrible defensive defenseman here, quality defensive defenseman in Toronto
• Risto: I don't think I need to recap what he did here. He's been a positive xGF% the past two years.
• Evander Kane: The three lowest on ice GF/60 numbers of his career were in Buffalo.
• Bogo: Injury prone out of position head case here, quality depth everywhere else

Eichel was the only one that was awesome on the ice before and after.

There are lots of other examples of guys that were routinely panned by the fanbase here and were functional depth pieces somewhere else. In fact, I remember creating a post on these boards during the Bylsma years that every player we acquired had a lower GF/60 metric here than any of their previous teams.

So yes, I personally do think the narrative from Marek fits here.

• O'Reilly: 2nd on the team in GAR before being booted. If I remember correctly, housley gave him incredibly heavy defensive assignments
• Reinhart: the slow and tip in narratives were not close to consensus. I think widely gone by the time he left
• Ullmark: idk
• Montour: one good year between Anaheim and Buffalo.
• McCabe: actually played well with risto for a stretch.
• Risto: see above. There were posts about his unreasonable usage as well
• Evander Kane: contributed to bad culture
• Bogo: see above

 

[Chainshot]

I've seen this posted before and it completely misses the mark. There is some serious revisionist history at work here by Chad and others...

• O'Reilly: In his last season here, he was -23 and under 50% in CF, GF, and xGF, his next season he was +22, won the Selke and the Conn Smythe

He had among the worst deployments in the NHL at 5-on-5. Housley absolutely buried him with d-zone starts and then did the same to Larsson in that same role after they gave ROR the heave-ho.

• Reinhart: Was continually panned by the fanbase about being too slow and only good at scoring on tips at the netfront, he was a -28 with a 39.5% GF% in his last season here. Since he's left he's been one of the best forwards in the world.

Some fans of this team wouldn't know a decent player if the guy slapped them. Going on the last of the Krueger years though?

• Ullmark: Was injury prone and inconsistent here, Vezina level as soon as he left.

And they offered him a contract and were surprised by his departure. Would he have gotten the coaching to improve here? I doubt it. Bales is a fraud and should've been fired years ago.

• Montour: Are we going to ignore that he was healthy scratched and played as a 4th line forward in his last year here? In Florida he was an elite play driving, puck moving defenseman.

He's had one very good season since leaving, in part due to Ekblad's injury freeing up space and time for him on the PP that he capitalized on. Montour remains an extremely high event player as he was in Anaheim, in Buffalo and in Florida now that he's in Seattle. He's a great transition short stick midfielder for lacrosse - move the biscuit up and get it into the zone to establish shots, perhaps even drive the net - but as defensive players go, he's still allowing a lot. That hasn't changed. Now criticizing the utilization is certainly a thing -- why did Big Head go out and get a bunch of RHD and yet not move off Risto, instead tanking the value of both Miller and Montour (and f***ing with the development of a guy like Fitz who also didn't have somewhere to play all the way down in Rochester so played wing instead). But people like Botts, or at least they like his sister on TSN. So he gets none of the heat he deserves for the shitty job he did.

• McCabe: Terrible defensive defenseman here, quality defensive defenseman in Toronto

McCabe's last year with Risto had some surprisingly good metrics. Then he was hit-or-miss in Chicago but mostly good.

• Risto: I don't think I need to recap what he did here. He's been a positive xGF% the past two years.

In a greatly reduced role, just like Bogosian. Cut down on the opportunities to make a mistake and put them on a team that isn't making as many mistakes... the numbers go up.

• Evander Kane: The three lowest on ice GF/60 numbers of his career were in Buffalo.

Yet his off-ice stuff has dogged him in both SJ and Edmonton...

• Bogo: Injury prone out of position head case here, quality depth everywhere else

Playing at the bottom of the lineup instead of the top where he and his clique with Jack and EKane thought he was deserving of playing despite being active ass on the ice. Same with Colin Miller - put him back in a role he can fill and he does. Also, Bogo has had a couple of really shit years mixed with some decent third pairing performances. Two years ago in Tampa he was a pit IIRC from looking at his numbers because I will never not take an opportunity to shit in his beard.

Eichel was the only one that was awesome on the ice before and after.

There are lots of other examples of guys that were routinely panned by the fanbase here and were functional depth pieces somewhere else. In fact, I remember creating a post on these boards during the Bylsma years that every player we acquired had a lower GF/60 metric here than any of their previous teams.

So yes, I personally do think the narrative from Marek fits here.

And yet there are plenty of guys who left who didn't. Sheary flamed out as a Cap and a Bolt to the point he's in the AHL. Hinostroza is only in the NHL because Minny had so many injuries. Girgensons this year is barely the player he was in Buffalo.

I'll have to go back and poke around but there are definitely some points that guys were doing well on a bad team and moved to teams that weren't and still continued to do well. I will stand by that it's a lazy assumption but easy in the face of trying to work out what is the root cause.

 

[Fezzy126]

He had among the worst deployments in the NHL at 5-on-5. Housley absolutely buried him with d-zone starts and then did the same to Larsson in that same role after they gave ROR the heave-ho.



Some fans of this team wouldn't know a decent player if the guy slapped them. Going on the last of the Krueger years though?



And they offered him a contract and were surprised by his departure. Would he have gotten the coaching to improve here? I doubt it. Bales is a fraud and should've been fired years ago.



He's had one very good season since leaving, in part due to Ekblad's injury freeing up space and time for him on the PP that he capitalized on. Montour remains an extremely high event player as he was in Anaheim, in Buffalo and in Florida now that he's in Seattle. He's a great transition short stick midfielder for lacrosse - move the biscuit up and get it into the zone to establish shots, perhaps even drive the net - but as defensive players go, he's still allowing a lot. That hasn't changed. Now criticizing the utilization is certainly a thing -- why did Big Head go out and get a bunch of RHD and yet not move off Risto, instead tanking the value of both Miller and Montour (and f***ing with the development of a guy like Fitz who also didn't have somewhere to play all the way down in Rochester so played wing instead). But people like Botts, or at least they like his sister on TSN. So he gets none of the heat he deserves for the shitty job he did.


McCabe's last year with Risto had some surprisingly good metrics. Then he was hit-or-miss in Chicago but mostly good.



In a greatly reduced role, just like Bogosian. Cut down on the opportunities to make a mistake and put them on a team that isn't making as many mistakes... the numbers go up.


Yet his off-ice stuff has dogged him in both SJ and Edmonton...



Playing at the bottom of the lineup instead of the top where he and his clique with Jack and EKane thought he was deserving of playing despite being active ass on the ice. Same with Colin Miller - put him back in a role he can fill and he does. Also, Bogo has had a couple of really shit years mixed with some decent third pairing performances. Two years ago in Tampa he was a pit IIRC from looking at his numbers because I will never not take an opportunity to shit in his beard.



And yet there are plenty of guys who left who didn't. Sheary flamed out as a Cap and a Bolt to the point he's in the AHL. Hinostroza is only in the NHL because Minny had so many injuries. Girgensons this year is barely the player he was in Buffalo.

I'll have to go back and poke around but there are definitely some points that guys were doing well on a bad team and moved to teams that weren't and still continued to do well. I will stand by that it's a lazy assumption but easy in the face of trying to work out what is the root cause.

All fair points, and points that I'm well aware of as I've argued for building around many of these guys that have left.

Oh, and FYI you may want to check the metrics on Montour, the underlying stuff has been pretty good for four years now.

I have long echoed this statement at work, and it's the same in sports: It's not just about finding the "right" person, that's only part of the equation. You have to find the right person, get them doing the right things the right way. i.e. roles and responsibilities are as important to success as the talent.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I specifically remember Granato putting Reinhart at center and leaning on him heavily as a leader of the team at the end of 2020(?), and Reinhart responded really well. I was psyched because I thought it meant we had a coach who would actually play him at center, then he was traded.

It hurts my soul imagining if we kept him to hold the top-C spot down while the younger Cs played down a line. Hes such a savvy player. Can play anywhere and be effective.

 

[GellMann]

I think ROR actually broke usage records that year. Like most raw defensive zone starts for a player in NHL history or something like that. We grinded him into a pulp. He was obviously an awesome player, even that year. I went on an absolute bender of posting when that trade went down because of how mad i was that we artificially tanked his value as low as possible and then blamed him for losing because he was 'sad' and ran him off the team.

 

[nickdawg95]

JJP Byram for Spurgeon + Rossi
Sign Fabbro
Samuelsson + Rosen for crouse

Benson-Noris-TT
Zucker-Rossi-Tuch
Greenway-Mcleod-Quinn
Beck-X-Crouse

Dahlin-JBD
Power-Spurgeon
Johnson-Fabbro

 

[jc17]

AFP projecting Pius Suter at 4 x 3.925M.

He could be a sneaky center pickup. I think vancouver did some nice things last offseason, but fumbled with other stuff. still jealous of their sherwood signing at 1.5M.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Sone Wild fans would make this trade:

Peterka and Quinn

- for -

Rossi and Stramel

 

[sabremike]

I think ROR actually broke usage records that year. Like most raw defensive zone starts for a player in NHL history or something like that. We grinded him into a pulp. He was obviously an awesome player, even that year. I went on an absolute bender of posting when that trade went down because of how mad i was that we artificially tanked his value as low as possible and then blamed him for losing because he was 'sad' and ran him off the team.

Botts on 7/1/18:

 

[Chainshot]

Changing gears - would floating a trade with say Byram as the principle from Buffalo for Vlasic from Chicago be something they could talk Davidson into?

 

[dickiedunnwrotethis]

Changing gears - would floating a trade with say Byram as the principle from Buffalo for Vlasic from Chicago be something they could talk Davidson into?

They may like his contract too much. I'd be willing to throw in a sweetener.

 

[Krieger Bot]

I specifically remember Granato putting Reinhart at center and leaning on him heavily as a leader of the team at the end of 2020(?), and Reinhart responded really well. I was psyched because I thought it meant we had a coach who would actually play him at center, then he was traded.

It hurts my soul imagining if we kept him to hold the top-C spot down while the younger Cs played down a line. Hes such a savvy player. Can play anywhere and be effective.

From the time we traded ROR, to the time Granato finally put Reinhart at center, almost 3 full seasons passed. Just an astonishing level of stupidity.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Sone Wild fans would make this trade:

Peterka and Quinn

- for -

Rossi and Stramel

Along with a Fabbro UFA signing and nothing else:

Benson - Norris - Thompson
Kulich - Rossi - Tuch
Zucker - McLeod - Krebs
Malenstyn - Kozak - Greenway

Byram - Dahlin
Power - Fabbro
Samuelsson - Clifton
JBD

 

[blingo22]

Changing gears - would floating a trade with say Byram as the principle from Buffalo for Vlasic from Chicago be something they could talk Davidson into?

Do you think Vlasic would even be available at a non-ridiculous ask?

I’m a huge Vlasic fan and have mentioned him before, and i don’t think Byram plus something else would be enough, unless that something else was as enticing as Byram.

Vlasic is built like Power, less offense but high defensive IQ and great positioning, as you probably know. And a Chicago suburb kid to boot. I just can’t see the Hawks trading him unless it’s like Byram and Benson or something equally appealing.

 

[TageGod]

What year is this?

Do you think Vlasic would even be available at a non-ridiculous ask?

I’m a huge Vlasic fan and have mentioned him before, and i don’t think Byram plus something else would be enough, unless that something else was as enticing as Byram.

Vlasic is built like Power, less offense but high defensive IQ and great positioning, as you probably know. And a Chicago suburb kid to boot. I just can’t see the Hawks trading him unless it’s like Byram and Benson or something equally appealing.

First full season in the NHL and you want him for the Sophomore season when we need to make the NHL? hard pass. Find a D swap for Byram that makes sense, or use Byram for the forward help and something else for D.