The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[Fjordsen]

I agree too. Clifton is overpaid but thats what it took to get him here.

Dahlin, Power and Byram is not ideal foundation because Power and Byram are still learning and we don't know what we have there. We will see what Benard-Docker brings but I think we need 3 new defensemen depending on Bernard-Docker.

Adams in year 1, 2 and 3 should have been drafting defense in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and instead had no plan. I posted Adams drafting the last 5 years and highlighted the defense he drafted. It was very thin and mostly left handed defensemen.

And now look, the defense is a mess and there is no high end defensive prospects in the pool.

All signs point to Adams not having a plan. If he doesn't fix this in the off season this team will end up in the same direction.

Well get someone cheaper than Clifton and hopefully Docker can be decent #6-#7.

Adams idiot.

 

[jc17]

 

[Steddy33]

We've all been waiting for this day. Its finally here and people are in denial about it. How could it not be true.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Get Lindy tf outta here ASAP

 

[slip]

Can't lose what you haven't had all season.

 

[Fjordsen]

We re-sign Greenway for 4M for role 4C?

 

[zenthusiast]

I wouldn’t blame Dahlin in the least

 

[Ehran]

And so it begins...

 

[jc17]

If healthy I'd want to try something like

Zucker Thompson kulich
Peterka Norris tuch
Benson McLeod Greenway
Malenstyn Krebs quinn

Switch tage and kulich if you want. If playing a team where you really want a defensive line, swap Quinn and Greenway I guess

 

[toddkaz]

Well get someone cheaper than Clifton and hopefully Docker can be decent #6-#7.

Adams idiot.

What was Adams doing drafting Poltapov, Kisakov and Leinonen when we have huge holes on defense? It made no sense. What kind of plan is that.

Mateychuk and Mintuykov looks like they are going to be very good but you draft 3 forwards in the 1st round?

Along with Evans, Zellweger, Hutson and about 15 other promising defensemen they could have drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Sure hindsight is 20/20 but whats the plan here? You draft Leinonen a goalie you don't need when Hutson, Luneau, Warren and others are still on the board.

Adams drafted Leinonen in the 2nd round, he was predicted to go in the 3rd round and was at least 4-5 years away from being in the NHL at the time and you still have very good defensemen on the board. That made no sense.

Poltapov was selected 1st in the 2nd round so you still can get 1st round talent.

There is a very good chance Kisakov, Poltapov and Leinonen will never see the NHL. Adams is garbage.

 

[slip]

We re-sign Greenway for 4M for role 4C?

The outrage is sitting Dunne after being the first Sabre to win a fight in several millennia.

 

[slip]

What was Adams doing drafting Poltapov, Kisakov and Leinonen when we have huge holes on defense? It made no sense. What kind of plan is that.

Mateychuk and Mintuykov looks like they are going to be very good but you draft 3 forwards in the 1st round?

Along with Evans, Zellweger, Hutson and about 15 other promising defensemen they could have drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Sure hindsight is 20/20 but whats the plan here? You draft Leinonen a goalie you don't need when Hutson, Luneau, Warren and others are still on the board.

Adams drafted Leinonen in the 2nd round, he was predicted to go in the 3rd round and was at least 4-5 years away from being in the NHL at the time and you still have very good defensemen on the board. That made no sense.

Poltapov was selected 1st in the 2nd round so you still can get 1st round talent.

There is a very good chance Kisakov, Poltapov and Leinonen will never see the NHL. Adams is garbage.

Adams: "But I got the core of our defense locked down for the next decade in Dahlin, Samuelsson, and Power."

One out three ain't bad -- it's awful.

 

[SundherDome]

What was Adams doing drafting Poltapov, Kisakov and Leinonen when we have huge holes on defense? It made no sense. What kind of plan is that.

Mateychuk and Mintuykov looks like they are going to be very good but you draft 3 forwards in the 1st round?

Along with Evans, Zellweger, Hutson and about 15 other promising defensemen they could have drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Sure hindsight is 20/20 but whats the plan here? You draft Leinonen a goalie you don't need when Hutson, Luneau, Warren and others are still on the board.

Adams drafted Leinonen in the 2nd round, he was predicted to go in the 3rd round and was at least 4-5 years away from being in the NHL at the time and you still have very good defensemen on the board. That made no sense.

Poltapov was selected 1st in the 2nd round so you still can get 1st round talent.

There is a very good chance Kisakov, Poltapov and Leinonen will never see the NHL. Adams is garbage.

You don't draft to fill holes as most of the players are years out.

This place would have burned if they drafted another LHD in the first or an undersized dman.

You should always draft a goalie, Leinonen was the top euro goalie.

Poltapov has developed nicely, would love to get them over here.

Kisakov, sure, sometimes you miss. Imagine how Ottawa and Detroit feel passing on Peterka.

 

[toddkaz]

Adams: "But I got the core of our defense locked down for the next decade in Dahlin, Samuelsson, and Power."

One out three ain't bad -- it's awful.

You are the GM, you took over 5 years ago.

Isn't the first thing you do is map out your team, your prospects, then who you will need in the draft and build a foundation? Aside from taking the best player available over need where is Adam's plan? Go look at it over 5 years. Adams is garbage who stole 5 years of our lives as a fan.

Without making this a debate with Tim Murray at least you saw a plan. He traded a 1st for a goalie, he brought in Evander Kane, Ryan O'Reilly and Bogosian and tried to put together a roster to make the playoffs. You can see his plan.

 

[jc17]

What was Adams doing drafting Poltapov, Kisakov and Leinonen when we have huge holes on defense? It made no sense. What kind of plan is that.

Mateychuk and Mintuykov looks like they are going to be very good but you draft 3 forwards in the 1st round?

Along with Evans, Zellweger, Hutson and about 15 other promising defensemen they could have drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Sure hindsight is 20/20 but whats the plan here? You draft Leinonen a goalie you don't need when Hutson, Luneau, Warren and others are still on the board.

Adams drafted Leinonen in the 2nd round, he was predicted to go in the 3rd round and was at least 4-5 years away from being in the NHL at the time and you still have very good defensemen on the board. That made no sense.

Poltapov was selected 1st in the 2nd round so you still can get 1st round talent.

There is a very good chance Kisakov, Poltapov and Leinonen will never see the NHL. Adams is garbage.

It gets dicey here because a lot of people ran with the idea that forton's crew wanted charlie mcavoy and considered it such a blessing that Adams let the scouts do their thing

His draft results are mixed. Some hits some misses, some I hated too. I just find it funny that a few months ago people were suggesting forton as kevyns replacement

 

[toddkaz]

It gets dicey here because a lot of people ran with the idea that forton's crew wanted charlie mcavoy and considered it such a blessing that Adams let the scouts do their thing

His draft results are mixed. Some hits some misses, some I hated too. I just find it funny that a few months ago people were suggesting forton as kevyns replacement

Hindsight is 20/20 so its easy to say the picks didn't work out after the fact but purely from a positional standpoint he drafted 1 RHD 134th overall out of his first 3 years of drafting as a GM.

The hardest position to fill in the NHL and thats how he drafted and now look....The situation played out and here we are. A man with no plan and short on RHD.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Forton and his crew are decent with drafting, definitely not bad. The bigger problem is that regardless of drafting, this organization has forced young players both into the line-up, and up above their ability in the line-up, time after time after time. They take decent prospects and crush them under a load of unfair roles and ice time. Rinse, repeat...keep missing playoffs on a budget.

 

[TehDoak]

I mean, the Dahlin news shouldn't be surprising.

This is roughly the same time Eichel was ready to GTFO.

Eichel: drafted in 2015, when told there was ANOTHER rebuild in 2020, asked out. 2021, got traded. So D+6 years

2024-2025 is D+6 for Dahlin and we are going to finish bottom 2 in the conference.

Ownership needs to get in front of this before another top pick is gone and we are starting rebuild 5 of the Pegula era.

 

[Zman5778]

I mean, the Dahlin news shouldn't be surprising.

It's not news. It's Biz exaggerating bullshit to drive views and clicks.

 

[TehDoak]

It's not news. It's Biz exaggerating bullshit to drive views and clicks.

"I never said I want out of here. I said I'm not happy where we are at. I don't want to lose. We have to get better"

Your best player met with management saying he isn't happy with where the team is at, that he doesn't want to lose, that they have to get better

This is your best player saying he isn't happy. Is it the EXACTLY what Biz said Dahlin said? No. But the spirit, essentially, the same.

If your boss called you into his office and said he wasn't happy with your work and you have to be better.

Is he threatening to fire you? No. He never said "get better or else you will be fired"

The 'or else' is implied.

Dahlin never said "We need to start winning or I'm gone"

He just said "We need to start winning"

The "Or I'm gone" is implied.

 

[Fjordsen]

I hope Rasmus explained to Kevyn that his shit doesn't work and that you can't build a team like that.

 

[Chainshot]

Forton and his crew are decent with drafting, definitely not bad. The bigger problem is that regardless of drafting, this organization has forced young players both into the line-up, and up above their ability in the line-up, time after time after time. They take decent prospects and crush them under a load of unfair roles and ice time. Rinse, repeat...keep missing playoffs on a budget.

Jamming everyone into the development team in Rochester simultaneously is a choice that I have never agreed with. Not only is there direct competition between high draftees, there is no room for any unforeseen growth from anyone else into a contributing player. It limits cycles for practice and game time experience to a few. Yet it seems to be what they want to do though it isn't something anyone else anywhere is trying.

 

[Djp]

Honestly, I don't see any point in paying Clifton 3 million either, there are a lot of mistakes, although it is physical. One of Power/Byram should also leave, these are potentially three defensemen who earn almost 20 million between them.

Baseline for a vet 3D you sign as a UFA will be $3.5M at least unless (1) vet discount wanting to win a cap, or (2) some ho still want to play in the nhl and they sign under $2M but you get what you pay for.

I agree too. Clifton is overpaid but thats what it took to get him here.

Dahlin, Power and Byram is not ideal foundation because Power and Byram are still learning and we don't know what we have there. We will see what Benard-Docker brings but I think we need 3 new defensemen depending on Bernard-Docker.

Adams in year 1, 2 and 3 should have been drafting defense in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and instead had no plan. I posted Adams drafting the last 5 years and highlighted the defense he drafted. It was very thin and mostly left handed defensemen.

And now look, the defense is a mess and there is no high end defensive prospects in the pool.

All signs point to Adams not having a plan. If he doesn't fix this in the off season this team will end up in the same direction.

Non 1st round D taken usually dony fo anything at nhl level for 4-6 yrs after drafted or 3rd yr sfter signing

Well get someone cheaper than Clifton and hopefully Docker can be decent #6-#7.

Adams idiot.

New place might help JBD. See what happens

If healthy I'd want to try something like

Zucker Thompson kulich
Peterka Norris tuch
Benson McLeod Greenway
Malenstyn Krebs quinn

Switch tage and kulich if you want. If playing a team where you really want a defensive line, swap Quinn and Greenway I guess

I agree with the framework. Benson and zquinn could be exchanged or greenway on left, benson on right

Similarly you cou li d ffg clip peterllja and zucker

What was Adams doing drafting Poltapov, Kisakov and Leinonen when we have huge holes on defense? It made no sense. What kind of plan is that.

Depends on your player rating and who is best

Mateychuk and Mintuykov looks like they are going to be very good but you draft 3 forwards in the 1st round?

Along with Evans, Zellweger, Hutson and about 15 other promising defensemen they could have drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Sure hindsight is 20/20 but whats the plan here? You draft Leinonen a goalie you don't need when Hutson, Luneau, Warren and others are still on the board.

You should br drafting every year at least when you arent certain on goalie

Adams drafted Leinonen in the 2nd round, he was predicted to go in the 3rd round and was at least 4-5 years away from being in the NHL at the time and you still have very good defensemen on the board. That made no sense.

Poltapov was selected 1st in the 2nd round so you still can get 1st round talent.

There is a very good chance Kisakov, Poltapov and Leinonen will never see the NHL. Adams is garbage.

Subjective valuing of prospects.

You are the GM, you took over 5 years ago.

Isn't the first thing you do is map out your team, your prospects, then who you will need in the draft and build a foundation? Aside from taking the best player available over need where is Adam's plan? Go look at it over 5 years. Adams is garbage who stole 5 years of our lives as a fan.

His first draft was 2020. He didnt have many picks to begin with and didn't see up his scouting. Hes been drafting D

Without making this a debate with Tim Murray at least you saw a plan. He traded a 1st for a goalie, he brought in Evander Kane, Ryan O'Reilly and Bogosian and tried to put together a roster to make the playoffs. You can see his plan.

I see a plan in Adams

Unlike Murray/Botts, he inherited more talent in the system.

He d pi es a rebuild for4 draft years 21'34 to build up prospect pool.

He starts to making moves last summer.

iirc they have had 38 reg or IT L, in 28 if them they had lead, tied. Or down 1 in the 3rd.

They are 4-8-3 in games entering tied.

You take those 8 games they lost when tied, add another 8 if them down 1 in the 3rd. Add 4 more they lost late in game ot in OT when they had plead.

Thsts 20 games. You win half in OT...tjey would be in the hunt for s WC spot

 

[RefsIdeas]

A lot of this going on

 

[Der Jaeger]

"I never said I want out of here. I said I'm not happy where we are at. I don't want to lose. We have to get better"

Your best player met with management saying he isn't happy with where the team is at, that he doesn't want to lose, that they have to get better

This is your best player saying he isn't happy. Is it the EXACTLY what Biz said Dahlin said? No. But the spirit, essentially, the same.

If your boss called you into his office and said he wasn't happy with your work and you have to be better.

Is he threatening to fire you? No. He never said "get better or else you will be fired"

The 'or else' is implied.

Dahlin never said "We need to start winning or I'm gone"

He just said "We need to start winning"

The "Or I'm gone" is implied.

The implied part is people who want to create news (which isn't), or create drama (which doesn't exist).

I can imply that Dahlin said "get better or trade everyone around me." Or "get better or I'm going to the owner saying you needs to go." Or "get better or I'm breaking my contract and going back to Sweden to play in the SHL."

None of that is true.