The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[Chainshot]

And while we toss around questing for a 4RD or 2RD, there are plenty of examples of non-elite (perhaps even non-top4) defensemen who when paired with an excellent defenseman are capable of letting that Dman be what they are. Hal Gill when with the Bruins was basically two different players shen he was with or wasn't with Ray Bourque. Jeff Beukeboom was the takeout portion of and blanket for Brian Leetch. (I would say Jeff was a 4D who then performed even better than that when with Leetch.)

Also, there is the aspect of centers being on the right side of the puck regarding winning possession and facilitating breakout. Forwards we know have a bigger impact on the defensive side of the ice than defensemen do - plenty of very smart individuals have spent a f*** load of time proving that over the last 10 years. And it fits with eye test for decades of hockey viewing.

Thompson has made strides in his defensive commitment but is not a guy who should be used in a neutralizing mode like someone like Hischier is (or Suzuki for that matter, or Hintz prior to this season). At least not yet, but there has been a lot more growth there and he's one of the few guys who I have watched that I think there is signs of new skill application. If there was someone to take on that role, Thompson can continue to win the shot share battle but be a guy who leans more toward the offensive deployment or win his matchup against the other team's 2nd line... great.

 

[Chainshot]

I think they can afford to deal one of Power or Byram. I lean toward Power since there has been so little progress with the defensive zone side of his game since watching him with Chicago until now that I wonder if he'll ever get it. Byram makes mistakes but there is a lot more awareness in his own zone as well as qualities in the offensive zone regarding movement off puck and taking ice from the defenders. Power is great at moving the puck up the ice and breaking it out. But he's bad at the acquisition of the puck or ending a rush. Fixing that? That's a big part of what's wrong with their blueline.

I still lean toward moving him over Byram right now, even with his ES point production.

But they tanked to get elite centers, drafted two and then alienated them both off the team so here we are, waiting for Cozens to grow into a job that is too much for him or for Thompson to do what he has not shown capable of doing in terms of winning the ES matchup decisively.

 

[Der Jaeger]

In your scenario, we'd still need TWO top 4 defensemen unless you're pegging Sammy to return to what we've seen.

No, I’ve got Samuelsson on the third pairing in my model.

So, with what I did, now trade Peterka for a D. Let’s just keep it simple and expand the Calgary trade.

Thompson and Peterka for Weegar and Andersson (it’s off on value but just to illustrate).

Take my three proposed trades and here’s where the Sabres stand:

Benson - Petterson - Tuch
Zucker - Zegras - Kulich
Greenway - McTavish- Lafferty
Malenstyn - McLeod - NAK
x Krebs

Weegar - Dahlin
XXX - Andersson
Samuelsson - Clifton
x Bryson, Gilbert

Buffalo still has to fill the second pairing LHD spot but that’s a whole heck of a lot easier to do than find a top 6 center.

And they still have their 1st, Ostlund, and Helenius. So center will be fixed for a while, even if you move some of the centers to wing.

I think they can afford to deal one of Power or Byram. I lean toward Power since there has been so little progress with the defensive zone side of his game since watching him with Chicago until now that I wonder if he'll ever get it. Byram makes mistakes but there is a lot more awareness in his own zone as well as qualities in the offensive zone regarding movement off puck and taking ice from the defenders. Power is great at moving the puck up the ice and breaking it out. But he's bad at the acquisition of the puck or ending a rush. Fixing that? That's a big part of what's wrong with their blueline.

I still lean toward moving him over Byram right now, even with his ES point production.

But they tanked to get elite centers, drafted two and then alienated them both off the team so here we are, waiting for Cozens to grow into a job that is too much for him or for Thompson to do what he has not shown capable of doing in terms of winning the ES matchup decisively.

I traded both because if Vancouver asks for Byram for Petterson, so be it.

 

[TommyDangles]

No, I’ve got Samuelsson on the third pairing in my model.

So, with what I did, now trade Peterka for a D. Let’s just keep it simple and expand the Calgary trade.

Thompson and Peterka for Weegar and Andersson (it’s off on value but just to illustrate).

Take my three proposed trades and here’s where the Sabres stand:

Benson - Petterson - Tuch
Zucker - Zegras - Kulich
Greenway - McTavish- Lafferty
Malenstyn - McLeod - NAK
x Krebs

Weegar - Dahlin
XXX - Andersson
Samuelsson - Clifton
x Bryson, Gilbert

That lineup has the same exact issues this lineup has. Relying way too much on young guys to play big roles. Benson as a top winger. Kulich as a 2nd line guy. Zegras/McTavish as your 2C/3C.

The only real upgrade is Andersson instead of Jokiharju. This lineup would still miss the playoffs by quite a bit.

You're essentially trading most of our talent away & not getting any better by doing it.

 

[Der Jaeger]

That lineup has the same exact issues this lineup has. Relying way too much on young guys to play big roles. Benson as a top winger. Kulich as a 2nd line guy. Zegras/McTavish as your 2C/3C.

The only real upgrade is Andersson instead of Jokiharju. This lineup would still miss the playoffs by quite a bit.

You're essentially trading most of our talent away & not getting any better by doing it.

You’re missing why I did all that trading. Having low IQ players and center who are bad at puck support are what’s plaguing the team. I fixed both of those. Those a huge upgrades.

Boston’s lineup doesn’t look great but they make the playoffs every year because of hockey IQ and good center puck support.

 

[Beerz]

I don't really think of Zegras when thinking about good puck support.

 

[toddkaz]

No, I’ve got Samuelsson on the third pairing in my model.

So, with what I did, now trade Peterka for a D. Let’s just keep it simple and expand the Calgary trade.

Thompson and Peterka for Weegar and Andersson (it’s off on value but just to illustrate).

Take my three proposed trades and here’s where the Sabres stand:

Benson - Petterson - Tuch
Zucker - Zegras - Kulich
Greenway - McTavish- Lafferty
Malenstyn - McLeod - NAK
x Krebs

Weegar - Dahlin
XXX - Andersson
Samuelsson - Clifton
x Bryson, Gilbert

Buffalo still has to fill the second pairing LHD spot but that’s a whole heck of a lot easier to do than find a top 6 center.

And they still have their 1st, Ostlund, and Helenius. So center will be fixed for a while, even if you move some of the centers to wing.

I traded both because if Vancouver asks for Byram for Petterson, so be it.

Wouldn't it be better to wait for the prospects we have to mature and then when they get sick of losing, demand a trade out we then trade them for more draft picks and then wait until those picks mature and get sick of losing and ask for a trade out and then trade for more draft picks again? And all the while during this process we can maintain the youngest team in the league and not really teach them how to play together. Sounds good to me, I feel like Adams might like that plan too.

 

[TommyDangles]

You’re missing why I did all that trading. Having low IQ players and center who are bad at puck support are what’s plaguing the team. I fixed both of those. Those a huge upgrades.

Boston’s lineup doesn’t look great but they make the playoffs every year because of hockey IQ and good center puck support.

Who is low IQ that you're getting rid of?

Who are these good puck support high IQ guys? Trevor Zegras??

> Boston’s lineup doesn’t look great but they make the playoffs every year because of hockey IQ and good center puck support.

For one Boston does not have a bad lineup. They have very good depth. They don't have a very young lineup. Plenty of vets. It's a very experienced group that plays their system well.

That's just also a terrible argument. You could say the same thing about the current team.

You're just mostly rearranging deck chairs with this lineup. You can believe what you want, but this is a 75-85 point lineup.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

And while we toss around questing for a 4RD or 2RD, there are plenty of examples of non-elite (perhaps even non-top4) defensemen who when paired with an excellent defenseman are capable of letting that Dman be what they are. Hal Gill when with the Bruins was basically two different players shen he was with or wasn't with Ray Bourque. Jeff Beukeboom was the takeout portion of and blanket for Brian Leetch. (I would say Jeff was a 4D who then performed even better than that when with Leetch.)

Also, there is the aspect of centers being on the right side of the puck regarding winning possession and facilitating breakout. Forwards we know have a bigger impact on the defensive side of the ice than defensemen do - plenty of very smart individuals have spent a f*** load of time proving that over the last 10 years. And it fits with eye test for decades of hockey viewing.

Thompson has made strides in his defensive commitment but is not a guy who should be used in a neutralizing mode like someone like Hischier is (or Suzuki for that matter, or Hintz prior to this season). At least not yet, but there has been a lot more growth there and he's one of the few guys who I have watched that I think there is signs of new skill application. If there was someone to take on that role, Thompson can continue to win the shot share battle but be a guy who leans more toward the offensive deployment or win his matchup against the other team's 2nd line... great.

I'm also in the trade Power over Byram camp, BUT that assumes Byram is willing to extend here long term, which I am rather skeptical of. If he's not, you have to keep the guy who is locked in.

 

[Ace]

I am firmly in the trade Byram over Power camp.

I don’t care if Power never makes physical contact with another human being again. They get to play offense a lot more when he’s on the ice for a reason.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I don't really think of Zegras when thinking about good puck support.

He's improved. Here’s got moved to wing and then back to center when he showed he could handle it. He’s not amazing but he’s competent.

Wouldn't it be better to wait for the prospects we have to mature and then when they get sick of losing, demand a trade out we then trade them for more draft picks and then wait until those picks mature and get sick of losing and ask for a trade out and then trade for more draft picks again? And all the while during this process we can maintain the youngest team in the league and not really teach them how to play together. Sounds good to me, I feel like Adams might like that plan too.

Why did you quote me for this? I have the Sabres trading for veterans.

Who is low IQ that you're getting rid of?

Who are these good puck support high IQ guys? Trevor Zegras??

> Boston’s lineup doesn’t look great but they make the playoffs every year because of hockey IQ and good center puck support.

For one Boston does not have a bad lineup. They have very good depth. They don't have a very young lineup. Plenty of vets. It's a very experienced group that plays their system well.

That's just also a terrible argument. You could say the same thing about the current team.

You're just mostly rearranging deck chairs with this lineup. You can believe what you want, but this is a 75-85 point lineup.

Low IQ: Thompson, Peterka, Power, and if the Canucks are asking in a Petterson trade, Cozens.

How is bringing in Petterson, Weegar, and Andersson re-arraigning deck chairs?

Boston’s line up is full of players with high hockey IQ. That’s the part you missed. I know a Bruins scout. That’s their number one prospect trait. Therefore, you rarely see the Bruins beat themselves. Their team has been earmarked by pundits as falling off a cliff for years since Bergeron and Krejci retired. Yet, they still maintained a playoff team.

I am firmly in the trade Byram over Power camp.

I don’t care if Power never makes physical contact with another human being again. They get to play offense a lot more when he’s on the ice for a reason.

I am not in the camp of trading Power because he isn’t physical. That’s a dumb argument.

Teams use a 1-3-1 power play and having two legit 1Ds is a waste of assets. Power hasn’t gotten meaningful first PP minutes with Dahlin running that unit.

Also, he’s been crap as a decision maker. I know he’s your boy, but he’s been terrible in passing decisions and transitioning the puck lately.

 

[TommyDangles]

Low IQ: Thompson, Peterka, Power, and if the Canucks are asking in a Petterson trade, Cozens.

How is bringing in Petterson, Weegar, and Andersson re-arraigning deck chairs?

Boston’s line up is full of players with high hockey IQ. That’s the part you missed. I know a Bruins scout. That’s their number one prospect trait. Therefore, you rarely see the Bruins beat themselves. Their team has been earmarked by pundits as falling off a cliff for years since Bergeron and Krejci retired. Yet, they still maintained a playoff team.

Thompson, Peterka, and Power are not low IQ.

> How is bringing in Petterson, Weegar, and Andersson re-arraigning deck chairs?

Because you're not adding to the roster. Swapping Tage for EP40 doesn't do anything. Swapping Cozens for Zegras is the same story.

I like adding Weegar or Andersson, but when Power/Byram are gone it's the same issues.

You're not fixing any issues. It's just new names. It's the same expecting young inexperienced players to take big roles. The same poor depth like Lafferty on the 3rd line.

I didn't miss anything. I said they have an experienced lineup that plays well in their system. There's nothing about your lineup that is similar to the Bruins team.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Thompson, Peterka, and Power are not low IQ.

> How is bringing in Petterson, Weegar, and Andersson re-arraigning deck chairs?

Because you're not adding to the roster. Swapping Tage for EP40 doesn't do anything. Swapping Cozens for Zegras is the same story.

I like adding Weegar or Andersson, but when Power/Byram are gone it's the same issues.

You're not fixing any issues. It's just new names. It's the same expecting young inexperienced players to take big roles. The same poor depth like Lafferty on the 3rd line.

I didn't miss anything. I said they have an experienced lineup that plays well in their system. There's nothing about your lineup that is similar to the Bruins team.

None of the rest of what you wrote matters after your first line.

There are literally dozens of posters on this site who are knowledgeable about hockey who think those three have poor hockey IQ. Go read the GDT from the Bruins game. It outlines the dumb mistakes those three make.

Just Thompson alone makes 3-5 dumb puck decisions every game. Power gift wrapped the puck to the Bruins twice within 30 seconds in the Sabres zone with poor passes.

You can disagree all you want but the game video disagrees.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Power’s value in a trade is going to be huge. Sergachev was second fiddle to Hedman in Tampa. He went to Utah and is proving to be a true 1D.

And Power is younger, and a more talented player. He’d fetch a haul.

 

[Ace]

Power’s value in a trade is going to be huge. Sergachev was second fiddle to Hedman in Tampa. He went to Utah and is proving to be a true 1D.

And Power is younger, and a more talented player. He’d fetch a haul.

Almost like you should keep him.

If Byram is so great that Power is expendable…well..teams will really like being able to negotiate their own contracts instead of paying the expendable one 8+ million dollars per year.

Weird he only cost Mittelstadt when Power, the expendable one, will fetch “a haul”

 

[TommyDangles]

None of the rest of what you wrote matters after your first line.

There are literally dozens of posters on this site who are knowledgeable about hockey who think those three have poor hockey IQ. Go read the GDT from the Bruins game. It outlines the dumb mistakes those three make.

Just Thompson alone makes 3-5 dumb puck decisions every game. Power gift wrapped the puck to the Bruins twice within 30 seconds in the Sabres zone with poor passes.

You can disagree all you want but the game video disagrees.

So making dumb mistakes = bad hockey IQ?

And at the same time are adding EP40, Zegras, and McTavish?

I really can't take you seriously.

Do you think Josh Allen has bad football IQ because he makes dumb mistakes?

Your logic is all over the place.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Power’s value in a trade is going to be huge. Sergachev was second fiddle to Hedman in Tampa. He went to Utah and is proving to be a true 1D.

And Power is younger, and a more talented player. He’d fetch a haul.

Again, though, you'd need to extend Byram first. I doubt he's interested.

 

[Ace]

i couldn’t write a dumber plan than play Owen Power with Joker for three years and trade him despite being more effective than the player you keep in spite of that.

And you know exactly how it’s going to play out.

It’s gonna be Reinhart all over again.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Almost like you should keep him.

If Byram is so great that Power is expendable…well..teams will really like being able to negotiate their own contracts instead of paying the expendable one 8+ million dollars per year.

Weird he only cost Mittelstadt when Power, the expendable one, will fetch “a haul”

You should read the thread. You’ll see how silly this comment is.

So making dumb mistakes = bad hockey IQ?

And at the same time are adding EP40, Zegras, and McTavish?

I really can't take you seriously.

Do you think Josh Allen has bad football IQ because he makes dumb mistakes?

Your logic is all over the place.

Isolated dumb mistakes, sure.

Repetitive dumb mistakes plus crap puck support and understanding where the puck should go? Yes, they have poor hockey IQ.

This is like the posters who argued for Kane, Bogosian, and Ristolainen.

Again, though, you'd need to extend Byram first. I doubt he's interested.

I made my trade ideas around the media reported offer of Cozens and Byram for Pettersson.

I went over to the Canucks board and they think their GM is all about acquiring Byram as the 2 to Quinn.

 

[jc17]

I know mystery box numbers aren't for everyone, but historically us dumping guys with consistently high WAR has not worked out well

 

[TommyDangles]

Isolated dumb mistakes, sure.

Repetitive dumb mistakes plus crap puck support and understanding where the puck should go? Yes, they have poor hockey IQ.

This is like the posters who argued for Kane, Bogosian, and Ristolainen.

This is so goofy. Just because young players make mistakes does not mean they have poor hockey IQ.

Have you seriously ever watched EP40, Zegras, or McTavish play? It's the same stuff. EP40 has had a ton of blunders recently. That doesn't mean he has poor hockey IQ.

Now we're comparing Tage/Peterka/Power to Ristolainen? There's not much to say. Can't really take you seriously.

 

[Faceboner]

If he’s actually desperate to acquire cozens, let him overpay for the pleasure

1st and surin as a base

 

[ValJamesDuex]

The players have quit on Ruff because he tried to teach them how to play in a system and started deservedly benching (embarrassing) guys. This group should never raise their sticks again at the arena, but I know where they can shove them.

 

[toddkaz]

Congrats Buffalo you did it!

 

[Fjordy]

I agree with Der Jager in some ways, but not in everything. I wouldn't take such radical measures as he did. I like Zegras but he is not a proven guy either, especially since he has been dealing with a lot of injuries lately. Kulich? Same here, he is just a young player who needs vet cover like the rest of the young guys. Keep 3-4 young guys on offense and spread them out on different lines. Should we trade Thompson? Not sure. One of Power and Byram should go, I am leaning towards Byram because he wants to be a 1D and see a lot of PP because he needs a new contract and has a history of concussions. Power was bad defensively but he still has a ton of potential. But I don't think he is untouchable, he could be available in the right deal, but I don't see the point in trading both players.

I'm really just not sure Zegras would be better than Thompson, why would we want that? I think Pettersson and Thompson as your top 6 C gives us the best option. But we'll have to find a good winger in the top 6. I'm starting one young player with each of them, plus Tuch and a new winger.

Attack:

Peterka - Pettersson - xxxx/Tuch
Benson - Thompson - xxxx/Tuch
Zucker - McLeod - xxxx
Malenstyn - Kozak - xxxx

Add another top 6 forward. Find a replacement for Greenway, someone physical and defensively capable who can put up 30-40 points on the third line, there are plenty of options. Zucker or some other vet like that.

Defense:

Dahlin - Weegar
Power/Byram - Kovacevic/Carlo/Whitecloud/Murphy/Kesselring/Chatfield/TVR/Spence/etc
Johnson - Clifton (or someone better)

If we could get Weegar it would be huge for us. Finding a top 4 RD on the second pair is much easier, it could be a proven guy or someone not as noticeable as it was with the same Kovacevic in the offseason. On the third pairing, I'd give Johnson a chance and trade Sammy. I don't want to see Sammy and Clifton together anymore, it's terrible, and in general I don't like two players who are bad with the puck on the same pairing (look at the Caps, Canes, and Devils defense). If you keep Sammy on the third pairing, there may be some cap issues in my plan, but overall, then you're trading Clifton and getting a better puck handler to pair with Sammy. In a pinch, it would be Johnson to RD or the Metsa, but I'd still look for a more proven player. Although I like the option of Johnson to LD and trading Sammy (who is hard to count on due to his constant injuries) more.