The 2024-2025 Roster Thread

[TehDoak]

Well I don't agree with that position. He plays with good players around him and I see the same thing, his brain is broken or he just doesn't want to be in Buffalo. I think we can find a good deal and stop overvaluing Cozens high and random shooting % in 22-23, he won't go back to that and his defense sucks, his PP sucks. I don't see the point in keeping him.

All that might be true.

But....the fundamental facts are is that this is a broken organization.

We have seen time and time again players leave here and get better elsewhere.

Until the front office and coaching issues are resolved, there should be absolutely no moves that result in us moving talent out.

Get someone who has built a winning team and organization that says "Yeah Cozens has to go" and I'll be 100% on board.

 

[Chainshot]

No offense to Winnipeg, but it is not only cold (way colder than Buffalo), and they have to pay higher taxes, but it’s in the middle of nowhere. Buffalo is a short plane ride from NYC and a short car ride to Toronto. Many NHL players grew up within 100-150 miles of here.

If Buffalo were a playoff team every year I doubt they would be on many no trade lists.

I'm reminded of Zads on the Spittin' Chicklets podcast talking about how he liked Buffalo, even when the guys were riding him about it. He said he and his wife would take a road trip to Toronto if there was anything luxury to buy and with it being close, it wasn't a big deal to him. It's the winning.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I remember reading in Hockey Prospect that Cozens was an elite talent but that his hockey IQ wasn't to the level of a top 6 playmaking center. That has proven to be true.

However, for a team that has longed for a 3rd line checking center and a big fast winger, Cozens would be a good fit. Simplify his world. Decide if you want him to be Cirelli or Kreider. He'll be good at either. That's why there is interest in the league.

If that means the Sabres are rolling Kulich and McLeod as top 6 centers for a while, so be it.

 

[Chainshot]

I remember reading in Hockey Prospect that Cozens was an elite talent but that his hockey IQ wasn't to the level of a top 6 playmaking center. That has proven to be true.

However, for a team that has longed for a 3rd line checking center and a big fast winger, Cozens would be a good fit. Simplify his world. Decide if you want him to be Cirelli or Kreider. He'll be good at either. That's why there is interest in the league.

If that means the Sabres are rolling Kulich and McLeod as top 6 centers for a while, so be it.

Size and at times a physical application of it as a RW would be welcome. But that means him not being the center any longer. If he's F1 and a volume shooter, so be it - he's shown he can do well in that role internationally - it's just not doing him any favors to still be trying to pound that square peg into the round hole of center. It's time to put him on the wing - passed it actually.

 

[Fjordy]

All that might be true.

But....the fundamental facts are is that this is a broken organization.

We have seen time and time again players leave here and get better elsewhere.

Until the front office and coaching issues are resolved, there should be absolutely no moves that result in us moving talent out.

Get someone who has built a winning team and organization that says "Yeah Cozens has to go" and I'll be 100% on board.

I don't argue that the organization is broken, but Terry doesn't fire Adams, what's the point of standing still? Any other sane owner would have fired this scammer long ago or even not hired him, but not our owner. So we continue on our way with Adams.

These problems are not going to be solved anytime soon, so I'm not against a trade, because doing nothing is even worse.

Terry is unable to do this.

 

[Chainshot]

If we're looking at the roster for players willing to do jobs and such, why is Jack Quinn still here? In terms of on-ice disappointments, he's only second to my dislike of the player Owen Power continues to display himself as. There was a time when I thought he had hints of Kucherov's half-wall game in him, plus his ability to mask his release from near the top of the slot. But now? He gets less shit thrown his way for being one of the biggest disappointments of the season... again. Yes, last year was injury. But this year? A year in which he looks like he did absolutely no physical preparation to supposedly be a key to their 2nd line AGAIN?

f*** this guy.

 

[HOOats]

Is Zary

If we're looking at the roster for players willing to do jobs and such, why is Jack Quinn still here? In terms of on-ice disappointments, he's only second to my dislike of the player Owen Power continues to display himself as. There was a time when I thought he had hints of Kucherov's half-wall game in him, plus his ability to mask his release from near the top of the slot. But now? He gets less shit thrown his way for being one of the biggest disappointments of the season... again. Yes, last year was injury. But this year? A year in which he looks like he did absolutely no physical preparation to supposedly be a key to their 2nd line AGAIN?

f*** this guy.

Totally agree, but what do we do about it? No AHL possibility, trade value truly dented (relative to Cozens' remaining afloat for now).

I have to think some Western team would like a shot at a change of scenery reclamation project. Is there a similarly stalled RHD somewhere to swap? Tricky situation as Quinn was viewed as blue chip 18 months ago.

 

[Ace]

If we're looking at the roster for players willing to do jobs and such, why is Jack Quinn still here? In terms of on-ice disappointments, he's only second to my dislike of the player Owen Power continues to display himself as. There was a time when I thought he had hints of Kucherov's half-wall game in him, plus his ability to mask his release from near the top of the slot. But now? He gets less shit thrown his way for being one of the biggest disappointments of the season... again. Yes, last year was injury. But this year? A year in which he looks like he did absolutely no physical preparation to supposedly be a key to their 2nd line AGAIN?

f*** this guy.

Because

A - you won’t get much for him right now
B - his next contract will be cheap enough to see if he turns it around
C - he’s a winger who plays with bad centers

There’s simply more value in giving him time, hopefully with an upgrade at center, than there is to dump him at this point.

He’s a disappointment given previous results and expectations. But we haven’t paid him based off of those things and won’t have to. Meanwhile…

 

[Fjordy]

Is Zary

Totally agree, but what do we do about it? No AHL possibility, trade value truly dented (relative to Cozens' remaining afloat for now).

I have to think some Western team would like a shot at a change of scenery reclamation project. Is there a similarly stalled RHD somewhere to swap? Tricky situation as Quinn was viewed as blue chip 18 months ago.

Whitecloud (Vegas) - Haven't been great lately, they have a cheaper Korczak.

Kesselring (Utah) - it's more difficult here, he was decent for them, but they will have to decide whether they want to develop Lamoreaux in the NHL or not.

Helleson (Ducks) - I'm not sure if he'll be available and I don't know if they'll be interested in Quinn.

Spence (Kings) - maybe he's not exactly what we need, but from the games I watched I liked his game, although he's not a defensive defender, but I would take a flyer on him.

 

[Fjordy]

Because

A - you won’t get much for him right now
B - his next contract will be cheap enough to see if he turns it around
C - he’s a winger who plays with bad centers

There’s simply more value in giving him time, hopefully with an upgrade at center, than there is to dump him at this point.

He’s a disappointment given previous results and expectations. But we haven’t paid him based off of those things and won’t have to. Meanwhile…

He's not playing with Cozens, the other centers are fine, he's very strange, this is not the Quinn that was in the AHL and his rookie season. Maybe some attitude issues or something. My second problem with Quinn is the roster spot. You want to have Thompson, Tuch, Zucker, Kulich, McLeod, Peterka and Benson in the top 9, that leaves two spots. We need Greenway or someone like that in one of those spots, we also want more vets on the roster like Zucker, we need a top 6 C. How do we find place for all that?

 

[TehDoak]

I don't argue that the organization is broken, but Terry doesn't fire Adams, what's the point of standing still? Any other sane owner would have fired this scammer long ago or even not hired him, but not our owner. So we continue on our way with Adams.

These problems are not going to be solved anytime soon, so I'm not against a trade, because doing nothing is even worse.

Terry is unable to do this.

If the ownership is unwilling to address front office incompetence, there are no amount of trades that will ever amount to anything other than through sheer luck.

The best case scenario for Adams achieving everything he has said is alternating between a 5 game elimination in the playoffs and missing the playoffs. With the 1st round bouncing probably only happening every few years.

There's no sustainable success possible when a franchise is this poorly run.

So in the reality the team keeps Adams on beyond this year, Cozens being here or not doesn't matter.

 

[Chainshot]

Waiting for another small framed, small playing forward to figure it out doesn't fill me with hope.

 

[TheBarnIsElectric]

If we're looking at the roster for players willing to do jobs and such, why is Jack Quinn still here? In terms of on-ice disappointments, he's only second to my dislike of the player Owen Power continues to display himself as. There was a time when I thought he had hints of Kucherov's half-wall game in him, plus his ability to mask his release from near the top of the slot. But now? He gets less shit thrown his way for being one of the biggest disappointments of the season... again. Yes, last year was injury. But this year? A year in which he looks like he did absolutely no physical preparation to supposedly be a key to their 2nd line AGAIN?

f*** this guy.

I mean... he's a kid, learning his way in the toughest league in the world. I don't know about saying "f you" because he isn't playing well.

Having said that, I 100% agree he needs to have a big summer and come back much stronger and ready to go if he wants to be part of this team moving forward. It's not just the physicality though. His decision making has been god awful. This year was not simply good enough, which is so weird considering his first couple of years. In any other organization, he would not be in the lineup and would be lucky to even be in the plan for next year.

 

[Fjordy]

If the ownership is unwilling to address front office incompetence, there are no amount of trades that will ever amount to anything other than through sheer luck.

The best case scenario for Adams achieving everything he has said is alternating between a 5 game elimination in the playoffs and missing the playoffs. With the 1st round bouncing probably only happening every few years.

There's no sustainable success possible when a franchise is this poorly run.

So in the reality the team keeps Adams on beyond this year, Cozens being here or not doesn't matter.

Adams is an idiot, but even he seems to be starting to understand what this team needs. It's more a question of whether he can perform or not, not that he's been adding a lot of bad players to the team lately, quite the opposite.

 

[Chainshot]

I mean... he's a kid, learning his way in the toughest league in the world. I don't know about saying "f you" because he isn't playing well.

Having said that, I 100% agree he needs to have a big summer and come back much stronger and ready to go if he wants to be part of this team moving forward. It's not just the physicality though. His decision making has been god awful. This year was not simply good enough, which is so weird considering his first couple of years. In any other organization, he would not be in the lineup and would be lucky to even be in the plan for next year.

I'm so disappointed in what looks like his preparation for this year being sub-standard. He looked better ending last year after coming back from his sprained ankle and torn achilles than he has at any point this season. I guess I'm tired of him not being part of the reasons why this team sucks, when he was looked upon to be a contributor again and is on pace for a 30-ish point season.

 

[Der Jaeger]

If we're looking at the roster for players willing to do jobs and such, why is Jack Quinn still here? In terms of on-ice disappointments, he's only second to my dislike of the player Owen Power continues to display himself as. There was a time when I thought he had hints of Kucherov's half-wall game in him, plus his ability to mask his release from near the top of the slot. But now? He gets less shit thrown his way for being one of the biggest disappointments of the season... again. Yes, last year was injury. But this year? A year in which he looks like he did absolutely no physical preparation to supposedly be a key to their 2nd line AGAIN?

f*** this guy.

In my head, the rough math is:

Power for a center (Pettersson)
Quinn for a defenseman (plenty have been named in this thread)

Those would be my two main moves.

To be clear about Power, I'm not a Power hater. Power needs to be running the #1 power play. Power needs to be the #1 guy in all the offensive situations. Unfortunately, that's Dahlin.

But the days of having the "twin jets" back on defense are long gone. In recent memory, any time teams try the "twin jets," it doesn't really work out. Burns and Karlsson in SJ. Letang and Karlsson in Pittsburgh. And it leads to trading one away fairly quickly to strengthen another portion of the roster.

Teams use a 1-3-1 power play and only need one elite offensive defenseman. Teams have tied to get two elite defenders involved, and it never works out the way teams envision it. A guy like Byram is perfectly fine running the second PP. Or you just keep your #1D out there for the second unit.

But teams are easily able to accommodate having multiple top centers because you can have more than one on the power play. It's actually something akin to the gold standard to have to centers who could each be the #1 C.

Just from a team asset perspective, I think Buffalo is wasting Power and his value. That's why I advocated for Beniers as the pick. But, if Vancouver is willing to try to "twin jets" thing with Quinn, cool. Or Anaheim, who has multiple young centers at the NHL level, but could use a #1D.

That's where I stand with Power. Great talent, which is being wasted as the #2D.

 

[toddkaz]

I'm reminded of Zads on the Spittin' Chicklets podcast talking about how he liked Buffalo, even when the guys were riding him about it. He said he and his wife would take a road trip to Toronto if there was anything luxury to buy and with it being close, it wasn't a big deal to him. It's the winning.

I remember in 05-06 players were saying they would be ok getting traded to Buffalo. I remember before Jason Blake got traded from the Islanders one on of teams he said he wanted to go to is Buffalo. Winning cures all ills.

 

[Ygo88]

He's not playing with Cozens, the other centers are fine, he's very strange, this is not the Quinn that was in the AHL and his rookie season. Maybe some attitude issues or something. My second problem with Quinn is the roster spot. You want to have Thompson, Tuch, Zucker, Kulich, McLeod, Peterka and Benson in the top 9, that leaves two spots. We need Greenway or someone like that in one of those spots, we also want more vets on the roster like Zucker, we need a top 6 C. How do we find place for all that?

Almost half his minutes have been with Cozens and he has another quarter of his minutes with Krebs, and most of his Kulich minutes are from earlier in the year. Playing with Ho-Hum C's is fair. He has not been nearly as bad of late (really since they split him and Cozens up).

I agree not good enough, but as @Ace mentions, he is low value, low risk right now. Keep him and find out what you got, if he sucks and doesn't earn a spot next year, he is basically at a similar value. If he figures it out, you have a controlled asset.

 

[Fjordy]

Almost half his minutes have been with Cozens and he has another quarter of his minutes with Krebs, and most of his Kulich minutes are from earlier in the year. Playing with Ho-Hum C's is fair. He has not been nearly as bad of late (really since they split him and Cozens up).

I agree not good enough, but as @Ace mentions, he is low value, low risk right now. Keep him and find out what you got, if he sucks and doesn't earn a spot next year, he is basically at a similar value. If he figures it out, you have a controlled asset.

View attachment 973099

No, I know he played early in the season with Cozens, but I meant lately. As was said above, I think we could try to get him an RD. The problem is that we can't keep all these players and improve the team in attack because we need open spots in the lineup

 

[Fjordy]

In my head, the rough math is:

Power for a center (Pettersson)
Quinn for a defenseman (plenty have been named in this thread)

Those would be my two main moves.

To be clear about Power, I'm not a Power hater. Power needs to be running the #1 power play. Power needs to be the #1 guy in all the offensive situations. Unfortunately, that's Dahlin.

But the days of having the "twin jets" back on defense are long gone. In recent memory, any time teams try the "twin jets," it doesn't really work out. Burns and Karlsson in SJ. Letang and Karlsson in Pittsburgh. And it leads to trading one away fairly quickly to strengthen another portion of the roster.

Teams use a 1-3-1 power play and only need one elite offensive defenseman. Teams have tied to get two elite defenders involved, and it never works out the way teams envision it. A guy like Byram is perfectly fine running the second PP. Or you just keep your #1D out there for the second unit.

But teams are easily able to accommodate having multiple top centers because you can have more than one on the power play. It's actually something akin to the gold standard to have to centers who could each be the #1 C.

Just from a team asset perspective, I think Buffalo is wasting Power and his value. That's why I advocated for Beniers as the pick. But, if Vancouver is willing to try to "twin jets" thing with Quinn, cool. Or Anaheim, who has multiple young centers at the NHL level, but could use a #1D.

That's where I stand with Power. Great talent, which is being wasted as the #2D.

Canucks just traded for M. Pettersson and are in extension talks with him, so I don't see them trading EP40 for Power.

 

[OkimLom]

In my head, the rough math is:

Power for a center (Pettersson)
Quinn for a defenseman (plenty have been named in this thread)

Those would be my two main moves.

To be clear about Power, I'm not a Power hater. Power needs to be running the #1 power play. Power needs to be the #1 guy in all the offensive situations. Unfortunately, that's Dahlin.

But the days of having the "twin jets" back on defense are long gone. In recent memory, any time teams try the "twin jets," it doesn't really work out. Burns and Karlsson in SJ. Letang and Karlsson in Pittsburgh. And it leads to trading one away fairly quickly to strengthen another portion of the roster.

Teams use a 1-3-1 power play and only need one elite offensive defenseman. Teams have tied to get two elite defenders involved, and it never works out the way teams envision it. A guy like Byram is perfectly fine running the second PP. Or you just keep your #1D out there for the second unit.

But teams are easily able to accommodate having multiple top centers because you can have more than one on the power play. It's actually something akin to the gold standard to have to centers who could each be the #1 C.

Just from a team asset perspective, I think Buffalo is wasting Power and his value. That's why I advocated for Beniers as the pick. But, if Vancouver is willing to try to "twin jets" thing with Quinn, cool. Or Anaheim, who has multiple young centers at the NHL level, but could use a #1D.

That's where I stand with Power. Great talent, which is being wasted as the #2D.

If you're going to have two #1 D's or "twin jets" as you say, you need to have the structure and overall intelligence of the forward core, and the skating ability, to be able to implement an active defense corp that utilizes abilities and skills as Dahlin and Power have.

You can't have them being core pieces of your transition team, and then shut down or limit their offensive zone capabilities once over the blueline. Feeding the puck down low, and then passing high to the defense for just an attempt of a shot at the point feels like you're utilizing 5% of their ability and skill and effectiveness. There needs to be constant movement, and the ability to play in space whether small space or utilizing the whole zone at once (not just working the puck from one side to the other).

Of course there needs to be an understanding that you don't just activate your d without being covered on backside. You need the forward core and defense partners to be able to read and react and be solid to read plays quickly to mitigate chances the other way with their support.

Looking at the Sabres, they don't have the player identity/style, nor the coaching staff to be able to utilize the skillsets of Dahlin and Power to their potential, and at the same time have an effective team. If they ever found that key to the puzzle out, they would be a force in the league, with having two guys who could play 66-75% of the game with one of them on the ice being left to unleash what skills they have.

 

[jc17]

Cozens and Quinn being issues, who could have seen that coming...

 

[StrompTroller]

Sounds like Mittelstadt is available. Would you trade Cozens for him? Do you think COL would do it?

Seems absurd, but trading Mitts created a hole at 2C for us and was supposed to fill theirs. Is it so far fetched that they would trade him back to us if they liked the return? Can any other team make an offer of another young player with top 6 potential like Cozens?

It's far-fetched, but it's an interesting thought, at least to me.

no because MItts isn't that good either.

 

[jc17]

no because MItts isn't that good either.

He played well for a while here, even before his points breakout.

And while I get the numbers stuff can get way too simplified, his "goals above replace" is 2nd best on Colorado right now.