Prospect Info: The 2024 - 2025 Prospect Thread: Part 2: WE ARE SO F***ING BACK

[John Belushi]

I've had to correct this probably a dozen times already, but this never happened. Bowey wasn't traded for a 4th and a 5th, and he wasn't traded for a 4th or really any draft pick at all. He was traded with Vancouver's 4th for Chicago's 5th. The difference in the value of these picks is barely measurable and the trade was made to permit the team to move Jordie Benn and save several hundred thousand dollars.

You might be right - however, NHL trade tracker has us giving up the 4th and 5th.

History of NHL trades by the Vancouver Canucks - NHL Trade Tracker

Excuse the failure to hotlink, I'm not sure how to do that on mobile.

 

[bandwagonesque]

You might be right - however, NHL trade tracker has us giving up the 4th and 5th.

History of NHL trades by the Vancouver Canucks - NHL Trade Tracker

Excuse the failure to hotlink, I'm not sure how to do that on mobile.

Strange, you're right.

https://puckpedia.com/trade/363

 

[Scumbag Frank]

From what i've gathered on the Rangers boards Mancini was considered a tool no toolbox turnover machine. His upside according to their fans looked to be similar to a bigger faster Juulsen. A depth RD

Hard to say how he will acclimate and advance as he matures but he has intriguing tools and has plenty of runway. The dream would be a Kesselring type

"tool no toolbox turnover machine" - that's pretty much exactly what I've seen of him in the AHL so far.

Big, physical, powerful skater who can rush the puck, but can't do much with it like a Sbisa/Bartkowski hybrid. Don't agree with the Juulsen comparison because Juulsen knows how to play good fundamental defense, he just makes a lot of mistakes.
Mancini doesn't seem to possess very good defensive IQ and IMO that's one trait you either have or you don't, not something you suddenly develop at 23 years old.
#6Ds should be reliable to play 15 mins a game like Forbort, not someone who's neither good at defense or offense (like Sbisa).

At this rate, best I see for him is a #7/8D. Would prefer Kudryavtsev over him, but Tocchet's already banished one Brannstrom so who knows what happens down the road

 

[krutovsdonut]

You might be right - however, NHL trade tracker has us giving up the 4th and 5th.

History of NHL trades by the Vancouver Canucks - NHL Trade Tracker

Excuse the failure to hotlink, I'm not sure how to do that on mobile.

that's a website mistake. we swapped 4th and 5th picks to get bowey and ended up with two 5th round picks in the 2021 draft, one of them being chicago's pick, which we used to draft koskenvuo. chicago used our 4th round pick to grab victor stjernberg, a 5' 10" centre with 8 points in the sel this season. specifically, the value of bowey was chicago moving up 29 positions in the draft to 108.

Vancouver Canucks acquire Madison Bowey, trade Jordie Benn to Winnipeg Jets

The Vancouver Canucks made a small pair of defensive moves Tuesday acquiring Madison Bowey from Chicago and trading Jordie Benn...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

 

[krutovsdonut]

mancini made the rangers out of camp this year in his first year as a pro. i'd give him more than 4 ahl games as a rookie before throwing in the towel on his hockey iq.

 

[Scumbag Frank]

mancini made the rangers out of camp this year in his first year as a pro. i'd give him more than 4 ahl games as a rookie before throwing in the towel on his hockey iq.

Your point about small sample size is valid. Not just 4 AHL games though, 15 NHL games where he bled goals in sheltered minutes then got sent down, and 23 games in Hartford where Rangers fans saw the same issues.
But you're right, nothing is definitive in just half a pro season.

All I can do is give my opinion on what I've seen so far - opinions can certainly change over time as we see more of him.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Your point about small sample size is valid. Not just 4 AHL games though, 15 NHL games where he bled goals in sheltered minutes then got sent down, and 23 games in Hartford where Rangers fans saw the same issues.
But you're right, nothing is definitive in just half a pro season.

All I can do is give my opinion on what I've seen so far - opinions can certainly change over time as we see more of him.

fair enough. keep in mind though that mancini got way too much ice time with the rangers for normal rookie sheltering. he was regularly getting 16 and 17 minutes with no pp or pk time and 50/50 ozone starts. that's top 4 unsheltered or even matchup minutes.

i think what happened is that nyr management kept mancini on the ranger's roster after camp against the wishes of the coaching staff and you have a case of a coach trying to get a raw rookie off his struggling roster by force feeding him minutes until he blew up so he can be sent down. if you look at his game logs, exactly that happened twice where he was fed stupid minutes for multiple games until he had a -3 game and then immediately got sat down. it reminds me of when chatfield was in the bubble and green screwed him over the same way playing him over his head until he blew up then sitting the guy down for weeks after that happened.

hopefully we can now do what the canes did with chatfield and rebuild the guy.

 

[ManVanFan]

he was drafted 80th, he was "LIKELY" to be nothing. if all the stars align he would be a dressable NHL defender. It would be naive to think that without decent development, he would have more than a 20% chance to make it. Analysts definitely were saying that Allvin reached for him in his draft year, until he showed up playing important minutes at the world juniors. Canuck fans were disappointed that he didn't get to play with Lekk in Orebro. What we have in 2025 looks like a #4/#5 type D. I would call that exceeding expectations.

Thanks for your insight

 

[arttk]

he was drafted 80th, he was "LIKELY" to be nothing. if all the stars align he would be a dressable NHL defender. It would be naive to think that without decent development, he would have more than a 20% chance to make it. Analysts definitely were saying that Allvin reached for him in his draft year, until he showed up playing important minutes at the world juniors. Canuck fans were disappointed that he didn't get to play with Lekk in Orebro. What we have in 2025 looks like a #4/#5 type D. I would call that exceeding expectations.

any non 1st rounder playing in the NHL at 21 (not forced fed) should be considered as exceeding expectation.

 

[ManVanFan]

any non 1st rounder playing in the NHL at 21 (not forced fed) should be considered as exceeding expectation.

Very weird stigma about prospects in this forum. He has played 144 games against men since his draft year.

 

[BluesyShoes]

"tool no toolbox turnover machine" - that's pretty much exactly what I've seen of him in the AHL so far.

Big, physical, powerful skater who can rush the puck, but can't do much with it like a Sbisa/Bartkowski hybrid. Don't agree with the Juulsen comparison because Juulsen knows how to play good fundamental defense, he just makes a lot of mistakes.
Mancini doesn't seem to possess very good defensive IQ and IMO that's one trait you either have or you don't, not something you suddenly develop at 23 years old.
#6Ds should be reliable to play 15 mins a game like Forbort, not someone who's neither good at defense or offense (like Sbisa).

At this rate, best I see for him is a #7/8D. Would prefer Kudryavtsev over him, but Tocchet's already banished one Brannstrom so who knows what happens down the road

Sounds like another project for Foote, hopefully he lasts longer than Desharnais. In fairness, they managed to really reign in Myers by giving him a lot of structure to mitigate the bad decision making. If they can work with Mancini's skating and size to really get his man-to-man defense to a high level, (net front, board battles, not getting beat against the rush) he might just be deployable if they keep his minutes limited and his assignment on the ice really simple, maybe pair him with someone that plays a more cerebral game and can anchor his pairing. I say all this without having really watched him, so feel free to cuss me out lol.

 

[VanJack]

mancini made the rangers out of camp this year in his first year as a pro. i'd give him more than 4 ahl games as a rookie before throwing in the towel on his hockey iq.

Mancini is definitely a 'bit of a project'. But he's landed in the right spot. If Foote and Gonchar can't get him to a higher level, nobody can.

There's lot to work with. He skates pretty well; isn't afraid to lug the puck out himself; and is mean piece of business in corners at 229 pounds.

He's definitely more than an 'off the glass or boards and out' kind of defender. He actually made a couple of slick neutral zone passes in the last game.

I'm actually mildly encouraged by what I've seen so far.

 

[ManVanFan]

Mancini is definitely a 'bit of a project'. But he's landed in the right spot. If Foote and Gonchar can't get him to a higher level, nobody can.

There's lot to work with. He skates pretty well; isn't afraid to lug the puck out himself; and is mean piece of business in corners at 229 pounds.

He's definitely more than an 'off the glass or boards and out' kind of defender. He actually made a couple of slick neutral zone passes in the last game.

I'm actually mildly encouraged by what I've seen so far.

What really have these guys done? Soucy is now worse. Myers is always chaos. Juulsen got worse. Forbort hasn't turned it around. OEL had a decent season under Bruce and company and turned into a nightmare with Foote. The only two they have really helped are Hughes and Hronek and those are two players that probably could have helped themselves no matter who is coaching. Hronek probably isn't much different other than he has a Norris winning partner now. Zadorov is playing better in Boston then he did in Van now.

I'm not saying they had to turn water into wine but have they really improved anyone that wasn't hitting their prime and probably going to improve anyways. (Hughes and Hronek)