U18: Team USA at the Hlinka

[William H Bonney]

The team sucks at this tournament once again. Listless and structureless. When will it ever be enough to make meaningful changes? We shouldn't just send the NTDP U18 but the current approach is pitiful. We will never take this tournament as seriously as Canada (nor will the other teams) but we should at least take it seriously. We get the poor results we deserve here with our half-assed approach.

They'll need a miracle to beat the Swedes to give themselves a chance at the semis.

 

[Postulates]

The team sucks at this tournament once again. Listless and structureless. When will it ever be enough to make meaningful changes? We shouldn't just send the NTDP U18 but the current approach is pitiful. We will never take this tournament as seriously as Canada (nor will the other teams) but we should at least take it seriously. We get the poor results we deserve here with our half-assed approach.

They'll need a miracle to beat the Swedes to give themselves a chance at the semis.

its a ushl roster space problem

not enough roster spaces for many 16-year-olds to play so they don't face the same level of competition this past year as their Canadian counterparts and only like 5? players were full-time ushl players iirc

 

[bigdog16]

its a ushl roster space problem

not enough roster spaces for many 16-year-olds to play so they don't face the same level of competition this past year as their Canadian counterparts and only like 5? players were full-time ushl players iirc

Its moreso the fact that Canada brings their top prospects and USA brings their B team

 

[William H Bonney]

its a ushl roster space problem

not enough roster spaces for many 16-year-olds to play so they don't face the same level of competition this past year as their Canadian counterparts and only like 5? players were full-time ushl players iirc

It certainly doesn't help but some of these guys could have played in the USHL last season had they wanted. Another issue is they evaluate players for this in an extremely watered down and largely pointless Select 17 Player Development Camp.

The biggest issue is the intentional choice to field an inferior roster for a premier tournament, especially for the NHL draft. It's one thing if a player isn't here because they're playing in something higher level at the same time (i.e., Kiviharju at the WJSS), but it's another when your top players are largely sitting on their asses because USAH has sidelined them.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for just sending the NTDP U18 team. And I get it's a delicate balance for USAH because they don't want to make NTDP players eligible and then not choose them all for the team and potentially sour the program ahead of the season. And also risk further alienating the non-NTDP guys by limiting their spots with the inclusion of all eligible players. But the reality is not all the NTDP guys should make an U18 tournament team, especially in an off-season tournament where the NTDP chemistry factor has dissipated. At least 6 of the Hlinka guys should probably make the team even if the NTDP guys are available.

There are simple changes that should be pursued. For example, it's stupid that we'll never select an underager even when they would be one of the team's best players because it's USAH policy. No one else does this, why do we? And even if USAH remains hellbent on blocking NTDP players in the Hlinka, this would be the opportunity for the elite incoming NTDP U17 guys to play up in the Hlinka before starting with the NTDP. You didn't need to know much to know guys like Hughes, Eiserman, Hagens, etc. should have played in the Hlinka as underagers before they started with the NTDP.

And if USAH is going to remain committed to sending an inferior team here, they need to overhaul the team selection process. Decouple it from the Select 17 Camp. Have a standalone Hlinka Camp, choose the roster, and then spend more time preparing as a team. They made some tweaks this year (standalone Hlinka Camp) but the players still waste their time at the Select 17 first. Scrap that and reallocate the time to team preparedness.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Brutal game. This defense is a joke and will be our undoing at this tournament without a doubt. How many odd-ran rushes did Czechia have? For a team that can't get out of their own end most of the game, how are we allowing so many odd-man rushes? It makes no sense to me how they defend, defend, defend, and the moment they get the puck in the other end, they lose it and it's an instant odd-man rush.

Kleber put on one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a hockey player. Not even joking. Goals 4-6 were two odd man rushes he caused and then another goal where he doesn't tie up the forward's stick right in front. His bad plays also got us in penalty trouble. Yet, some of the others aren't that much any better. McLaughlin sucks. Not as immobile as Kleber, but he's not good in any part of the game. Felicio is a small defenseman that plays no defense and can't skate. But at least he had 100 meaningless points on a bad USHL team this year! Did not help the cause at all that Bales had a train-wreck showing and Hendricks wasn't much better. Pitner and Keefe might be the only two draftable defensemen from this group, and obviously they can't carry the defense on their own. If Hendricks and Bales can't do better than this, they aren't draftable players.

Didn't help that the goalies couldn't stop a shot. I'm not saying most of them were their fault, but how many shots did they really face? It couldn't have been more than mid 30's. Can't be giving up 7 goals. That's not good enough. Even if most of the saves are difficult, make a save or two to keep your team close.

And I'm not a big complainer about refs, but they were terrible in this one. I have no issue with calling that Spellacy penalty where he tried to take the Czech player's head off, but when they did that to Hughes later in the game they called nothing. That's inconsistent officiating. The Czech's ended up scoring two on those PP's in the second, and the first one was pretty clearly interference by the Czech net front guy on Pitner. If they make the right call, there's no goal there and instead of then getting a 5 on 4, it's 4 on 3 for a small amount of time before it gets evened up, so that's a pretty costly two goals there because they missed an interference call on the second Czech goal. They also were calling it so inconsistent all game. We got called for soft penalties, and then they were taking runs at our players with nothing called. Not the direct reason we lost, but the referees had a shocker.

 

[William H Bonney]

I haven't been able to see much of today's game but nice to see them finally show up. They've looked energized in the little I've been able to see. Is this just a poor Swedish team, a poor performance from them, or a strong US performance?

Connelly has been the standout in what I've seen today.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Much better outcome today.

 

[William H Bonney]

Just beat Germany and hope the Czechs beat the Swedes to avoid the dreaded tiebreaker scenario.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I thought that was a solid performance. All the bad defensive performances from yesterday were minimized. Not saying these players became so much better overnight, but obviously the coaches got through to them in some regard. Although I must say, I didn't think we were so much better than Sweden. Their goaltending wasn't good, and ours was. Regardless, good to beat a good team like Sweden.

Connelly was flying in this game. Wish he could make better decisions, but still had a very good game. The secondary scorers also showed up today, which makes it so stupid in my mind that we are playing them on the bottom lines. Even though we won, I'd definitely make some line changes. I don't think the line formation works through two games.

Connelly-Park-Swanson
Young-Stefanek-Zellers
McNelis-Monteiro-Butella
Frank-Spellacy-Lee

The fourth line basically all suck. They ruin each line they play on, so we have to find a way to minimize their impact.

 

[Joe Zanussi]

Playing a game for a medal. Always the first goal.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

 

[William H Bonney]

Anyone see why Swanson is out today? That's a huge loss. Hughes is out as well, which I imagine is from the dirty hit he received late in the Czechia game.

 

[William H Bonney]

We'll see if it ends up biting them, and you hate that the tiebreaker rules encourage wrecking overmatched teams, but Luke Strand absolutely shit the bed not trying to run up the score more today against Germany. He was running 4th line guys heavily in the 3rd and on the PP. I mean he had Kleber on the PP. And Sweden is already up 2 on Czechia in the first and a tiebreaker scenario is inching uncomfortably close for the team.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Anyone see why Swanson is out today? That's a huge loss. Hughes is out as well, which I imagine is from the dirty hit he received late in the Czechia game.

It wasn't a clear injury that you could see, but he did miss a shift or two late in the third. I thought that the coach was just resting his top line guys and maybe giving some of the lower line guys some extra TOI, but then they put him back out there for a PP at the end of the game, so I figured that settled the question. I guess not.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Maybe I got the tiebreakers wrong, but the app I use says we got 2nd in the group and should be playing Canada.

If so, I don't like our chances. Even worse if Swanson can't play. This team doesn't have a full lineup that can match Canada's lineup. Probably only like 5 or 6 players, and taking one of them out definitely hurts our chances.

Yeah, we did well against Sweden, but they didn't even qualify in the top 2, so how good are they? And then it's hard to take almost anything from a game against Germany. They were severely outclassed. The best thing that can happen in that game is players pad their stats for the draft and everyone stays injury free.

 

[ORRFForever]

Maybe I got the tiebreakers wrong, but the app I use says we got 2nd in the group and should be playing Canada.

 

[Joe Zanussi]

Playing a game for a medal. Always the first goal.

Got home to see that I almost spoke too soon. Glad we’re thru. I think it’s interesting to watch the results of this tourney to see how our depth is coming. I know it’s not best on best but I think it means something.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

From this team, I think the guys from this team that are worthwhile players to be considered for this team are the following

Goalies: All of them to some extent. Better than our goalies last year. Goalies develop later. We’ll see, but all 3 have some promise.

Defensemen: Pitner, Keefe, Hendricks, Bales and Felicio. I’m a little reticent on the last three, but I don’t think any of those 5 are too bad.

Forwards: Swanson, Connelly, Park, Stefanek, Young, Butella, Zellers, Monteiro, McNelis. And really beyond those first four, the next five are kind of lower level depth guys. We probably could do with half of them being replaced by better players.

So of this roster of 23, we probably need to replace between 8-13 of them to feel like we can have a very competitive team that can seriously contend for Gold yearly. I don’t know whether the answer to that is different U18 selections, adding half a team of U17 selections, some combination of both, or adding some of the U18 NTDP players.

I think though that if we expect to seriously contend for Gold we only have about half the team for that or a little more than half. We need more good players, and I don’t think we really need to see 5’6 “skill” forwards that play on the fourth line because they are less skilled than other skilled forwards or 6’5 defensemen that can’t skate, play defense, or play offense showcased simply to “give more kids a chance.” If you don’t have NHL potential, you don’t deserve a chance. This is high stakes junior hockey.

Edit: I’ve been thinking about this some more, if we decided to hold out like 5-6 U18 NTDP players that don’t really need the exposure (hypothetically Eiserman, Hagens, Bednarik, Hutson, Skahan, Hensler), and then fielded the rest along with the best non-NTDP players, I think this group (and the yearly group) could rival the non-Canada countries on talent.

Connelly-Park-Swanson
Plante-Van Vliet-Ziemer
Humphreys-Stefanek-Epperson
McMorrow-Baker-Pardue
Vansaghi

Lapointe-Emery
Keefe-Pitner
DRM-Whipple
Bales

Any
Combo of
3 goalies (Parsons, Kempf, Heil, Bernstein, Hendrickson)

Maybe I’m wrong, but I think this team has close to the same talent level of the typical Sweden or Finland team and certainly the talent level of Czechia.

 

[WarriorofTime]

What they should really do is bring along the best incoming U17 standouts based on camp/pedigree etc. It gives those guys that are more or less 'locks' to make USNDTP a little something else to be fighting for to get extra consideration.

For whatever reason, they don't want to bring any underage players.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Shaping up to be a back-n-forth barn burner.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Outscored 4-0 since the 2-1 lead. That's allota Swiss cheese defense.

 

[William H Bonney]

Outscored 4-0 since the 2-1 lead. That's allota Swiss cheese defense.

Yep. None of the defensemen have stood out in a positive way in the tournament. And the PP has been atrocious even if it scored twice. PP has been the big difference in today's game. An oddly this is a poor skating US team, as USAH usually focuses on skating when choosing rosters.

 

[Joe Zanussi]

Just watched the game (recorded). You could see us wearing down. Just run over by a better team

 

[William H Bonney]

Just watched the game (recorded). You could see us wearing down. Just run over by a better team

Yeah, the 5-on-3 was the end of the game. After that they looked mentally and physically out of the game.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This team simply wasn't very good. Expecting to beat Canada wasn't realistic.

One thing I really didn't like was the lines. They made no sense to me. They basically put 1 good player on every line, and then expected them to carry a bunch of scrubs. Stefanek and Park should've been the top two line centers with Swanson/Connelly as two of the wingers, and then two others. That should've been the top 6. Instead, the coach vastly underused Stefanek and Park. I'm sorry, but we gotta end the Swanson at center experiment. Some of these Canada dudes are like 10 inches taller than him. He's a terrific playmaker, but play him at winger. Don't get me started on how Kleber, Hendricks, and McLaughlin are getting PP time in this tournament, yet somehow our only two good defensemen Pitner and Keefe can get none.

In both games that we lost, the onrush of goals that had us start to concede a lot of them was led by Kleber and the fact that it ends up a shooting gallery for the other team with him out on the ice. Eventually, the dam is going to burst. It ends up being a 5 on 4 for the other team because he's so slow to arrive where he should be. That sequence in the second period started with him being unable to clear the zone, and then that caused his teammate to take a penalty in front of the net after he was late to the net(I thought it was honestly his penalty that they called on his teammate). Felicio still can't defend. Attack him with size and speed, and he's done. McLaughlin was thoroughly mediocre throughout. Bales has been a lot worse than I expected, and I don't think he's going to be drafted. This defense wasn't capable of hanging with Canada. And the forwards aren't a ton better, especially if you isolate them on individual lines to carry scrubs.

As for the goaltending, I see the narrative was already set by the announcers that Heil did everything he can, but I'm going to disagree. I can't find the shot totals, but I'd estimate it was about 35. Unless they are literal tap-ins, you shouldn't be giving up 6 on so few shots. I wouldn't say any of the goals were terrible, but they were stoppable shots and we didn't get the saves. Just because he made a few nice saves doesn't mean he shouldn't be stopping the majority of shots. That's why you expect a SV% in the 9's from your goalie. They should stop the majority of the shots, not have a few nice saves that salvage their reputation from a game. Heil in both games we lost did this where he gave up way too many goals. I'm not saying he should've been putting up a shutout or 1 goal, but don't give up 6 goals. You give your team no chance to win when you do that. And quite frankly, the coaching staff probably made a mistake not turning to the other goalies after he struggled against Czechia. Canada switched their goaltending after losing the first game, and has gotten better goaltending since.