World Cup: Team Russia

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I mean Sweden just beat USA and went to OT with Canada, Finland was on par with the U.S. for 40 minutes abd surged against Canada to make it close.

If someone thinks Russia can’t beat these nations in one game that’s a bit weird to say the least

And where did I say they couldn't beat any nation in one game ?

 

[Zine]

I mean Sweden just beat USA and went to OT with Canada, Finland was on par with the U.S. for 40 minutes abd surged against Canada to make it close.

If someone thinks Russia can’t beat these nations in one game that’s a bit weird to say the least

Yea, if Finland can beat Sweden and be competitive with USA/Canada with Jokiharju, Lindell, Matinpalo, Mikkola, Maatta, Vaakanainen, Valimaki on D, and freakin' Saron/Lankinen in G, I'm not worried about Russia's defense.

 

[Czechboy]

I mean Sweden just beat USA and went to OT with Canada, Finland was on par with the U.S. for 40 minutes abd surged against Canada to make it close.

If someone thinks Russia can’t beat these nations in one game that’s a bit weird to say the least

For sure Russia could win a round robin game or 2. Not a tourney though. At least not in the past 30 years and not in the foreseeable future either given they aren't playing. If this were Scrooge.. the ghost of Xmas past is meh and the ghost of Xmas future and present doesn't exist.

 

[ViD]

For sure Russia could win a round robin game or 2. Not a tourney though. At least not in the past 30 years and not in the foreseeable future either given they aren't playing. If this were Scrooge.. the ghost of Xmas past is meh and the ghost of Xmas future and present doesn't exist.

The way I see it

It Russia plays 10 games against each team

Russia beats Finland 7 times out of 10
Russia beats Sweden 6 times out of 10
Russia beats the U.S. 5 times out of 10
Russia beats Canada 4 times out of 10

 

[Summer Rose]

The way I see it

It Russia plays 10 games against each team

Russia beats Finland 7 times out of 10
Russia beats Sweden 6 times out of 10
Russia beats the U.S. 5 times out of 10
Russia beats Canada 4 times out of 10

I think it's more like 4/10 against the USA and 3/10 against Canada, but that's just me, and we're not too far off from each other. Extrapolate it out to out of 100 and it's probably more like 45/100 and 35/100 for me, which is pretty close to your numbers (for one, you'd mathematically round up 4.5 to 5 and 3.5 to 4 since there's no such thing as winning half a game).

 

[Czechboy]

The way I see it

It Russia plays 10 games against each team

Russia beats Finland 7 times out of 10
Russia beats Sweden 6 times out of 10
Russia beats the U.S. 5 times out of 10
Russia beats Canada 4 times out of 10

And how do you feel all those scenarios end in a one game elimination quarter in a best in best?

International hockey isn't played in 10 game series. It's played in round robins, quarters, semis and medal matches.

If you don't want to use past history and feel it's meaningless (not saying you said that but it is an argument being made) then why do you think Russia has improved so much? Because they certainly have a very small history of winning those quarters and medal matches when it counts.

 

[Poro24]

Because they are not going to be invited on this tournament either

When looking at the situation right now, I think there is about 3% change that they will be invited. Very unlikely that it would change in three years. Some things are more important than hockey. And this is not politics, its common sense and human decency.

 

[Czechboy]

about 3% change

You might be a little high.lol

 

[kp61c]

When looking at the situation right now, I think there is about 3% change that they will be invited. Very unlikely that it would change in three years. Some things are more important than hockey. And this is not politics, its common sense and human decency.

Like when nata, usa or their derivatives attacked yugoslavia, iraq, panama, lybia, afghanistan, syria...? you are a victim of your own propaganda and your sanctimoniousness is disgusting.

 

[Kshahdoo]

When looking at the situation right now, I think there is about 3% change that they will be invited. Very unlikely that it would change in three years. Some things are more important than hockey. And this is not politics, its common sense and human decency.

Lol, you're so wrong. NHL even now doesn't care a lot about IIHF (or rather European) anti-Russian agenda, otherwise there wouldn't be Russian players in the league.

But of course NHL does care about political situation that's why the league organised that 4 Nations. They knew World Cup would look stupid without Russia so they called the tournament "experimental" and "testing".

Now looking at what is happening in the world right now it's obvious that in three years NHL will invite Team Russia to World Cup, and not a single national hockey federation opposes it. Mostly because it's absolutely hopeless as everybody knows that NHL doesn't care about what national hockey federations think about anything...

 

[Fatass]

The way I see it

It Russia plays 10 games against each team

Russia beats Finland 7 times out of 10
Russia beats Sweden 6 times out of 10
Russia beats the U.S. 5 times out of 10
Russia beats Canada 4 times out of 10

Russia beats Finland 5 out of 10
Russia beats Sweden 4 out of 10
Russia beats the USA 2 out of 10
Russia beats Canada 2 out of 10

And I’m being generous to Russia.
Russia was once a great hockey nation, but that was 20 years ago. They have no centres, and no D. They have some wingers but no depth. They have great goaltending who will steal some wins.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Russia beats Finland 5 out of 10
Russia beats Sweden 4 out of 10
Russia beats the USA 2 out of 10
Russia beats Canada 2 out of 10

And I’m being generous to Russia.
Russia was once a great hockey nation, but that was 20 years ago. They have no centres, and no D. They have some wingers but no depth. They have great goaltending who will steal some wins.

Nah, you're being very biased to Russia, and I'm not even going to ask you, why...

 

[ViD]

You might be a little high.lol

looks like you all are for a bit of a surprise then

 

[Fatass]

Nah, you're being very biased to Russia, and I'm not even going to ask you, why...

Nothing against Russian hockey players. Like many fans fist saw them play in the ‘72 Summit Series. Yakushev, Kharlamov, Tretiak and all those great players were fabulous. Lots of great Russian players coming and playing in the nhl. Makarov, Larionov, Bure, Federov and really too many others to mention. Malkin and OV (greatest goal scorer ever) are fantastic.
But …
The depth of great Russian players has fallen off over the last 30 years. While other countries have gotten a lot better. When it’s best on best now, Russia is not a top four nation. Imo they are in a group with Czechia.

 

[Old Man Jags]

It’s just dumb to believe results of 10+ years ago have any meaning or relationship to today’s teams and rosters.

You would only be right if today's Russian team in terms of the quality of the players was radically better relative to the other top nations than it was 10+ years ago (so past performances could in no way be compared to what today's far superior Russian team would be likely to do). But it isn't radically better.

We are told by Russian fans for decades how great the Russian ice hockey team is, yet they have not won any best-on-best tournament since the Russian team came into existence in 1991. That's a bit of a pattern, don't you think? It means that either all this time Russia was not as good as Russian fans have kept telling us, or the Russian team mentality is somehow severely deficient.

Why do they trounce everyone in round robin, but at the knockout stages do much less well, and literally never won gold in a best-on-best tournament? Might it have something to do with Russian teams often looking more like they are a collection of highly skilled individuals, rather than playing as a team (sort of the opposite of many Finnish teams of the past, for example)? Trying to score through glorious individual actions rather than looking like a team where every player would die for the others? Or maybe it is something else, but result-wise it is a pattern which has pretty much applied to all Russian teams in best-on-best competition.

It seems a lot more reasonable to me to expect that the pattern will continue, than to expect on the basis of no evidence whatsoever that suddenly a long term, reliable pattern will change. Of course it might - you never know - but in the absence of other evidence, it's not unreasonable to take past performance into account.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Nothing against Russian hockey players. Like many fans fist saw them play in the ‘72 Summit Series. Yakushev, Kharlamov, Tretiak and all those great players were fabulous. Lots of great Russian players coming and playing in the nhl. Makarov, Larionov, Bure, Federov and really too many others to mention. Malkin and OV (greatest goal scorer ever) are fantastic.
But …
The depth of great Russian players has fallen off over the last 30 years. While other countries have gotten a lot better. When it’s best on best now, Russia is not a top four nation. Imo they are in a group with Czechia.

Ok, let's talk about Finland. Goalies, Finnish goalies wouldn't obviously make even top5 Russian goaltenders let alone top3.

As to "weak Russian defense", the only Finnish defenseman who would make it is Miro Heiskanen, all others are... well, not good enough.

Now forwards. Barkov will be 33 in 3 years, but I think he would still make Team Russia just because of he's a center (oh, and he speaks Russian fluently). Aho probably too, but I didn't like him at 4 Nations. Maybe young Russian kids will look better than him in 3 years. Rantanen... Well, he doesn't look great without MacKinnon, and who would you take him instead? Michkov and Demidov? No f***ing chances. 34 year old Kucherov? Probably still no. And he won't play on the 4th line. And other Finns are just not good enough.

So will you still insist you have nothing against Russia?

 

[ViD]

Ok, let's talk about Finland. Goalies, Finnish goalies wouldn't obviously make even top5 Russian goaltenders let alone top3.

As to "weak Russian defense", the only Finnish defenseman who would make it is Miro Heiskanen, all others are... well, not good enough.

Now forwards. Barkov will be 33 in 3 years, but I think he would still make Team Russia just because of he's a center (oh, and he speaks Russian fluently). Aho probably too, but I didn't like him at 4 Nations. Maybe young Russian kids will look better in 3 years. Rantanen... Well, he doesn't look great without MacKinnon, and who would you take him instead? Michkov and Demidov? No f***ing chances. 34 year old Kucherov? Probably still no. And he won't play on the 4th line. And other Finns are just not good enough.

So will you still insist you have nothing against Russia?

The guy is clearly biased or clueless about Russian hockey. A pointless discussion.

 

[Czechboy]

looks like you all are for a bit of a surprise then

Yes, we are very far apart on when we think the return to international hockey announcement will be. 2026 is still in play for Olympics. 2025 and 2026 World Championships are already cancelled.

My guess is 2030 Olymipcs and it might be a 'athletes from Russia' type situation (like the last 2 Olympics).

 

[Czechboy]

Ok, let's talk about Finland. Goalies, Finnish goalies wouldn't obviously make even top5 Russian goaltenders let alone top3.

As to "weak Russian defense", the only Finnish defenseman who would make it is Miro Heiskanen, all others are... well, not good enough.

Now forwards. Barkov will be 33 in 3 years, but I think he would still make Team Russia just because of he's a center (oh, and he speaks Russian fluently). Aho probably too, but I didn't like him at 4 Nations. Maybe young Russian kids will look better than him in 3 years. Rantanen... Well, he doesn't look great without MacKinnon, and who would you take him instead? Michkov and Demidov? No f***ing chances. 34 year old Kucherov? Probably still no. And he won't play on the 4th line. And other Finns are just not good enough.

So will you still insist you have nothing against Russia?

Last meaningful best on best win against Finland was 1998 in Semi's? Maybe I'm missing a best on best elimination/advancement? Feel like the Finn's usually come out on top in the important games. At least in the last quarter century? Talking best on best here...

 

[Czechboy]

But it isn't radically better.

I'd say worse.. those early Russian teams had ridiculous forward talent. I don't see that today. Most recent forward to really do well is Svechnikov from 2018. I think he has more points than the 2019 to 2024 draft classes combined. Obviously too early to tell for Michkov and Demidov.

than to expect on the basis of no evidence whatsoever

This... the reason Russia will be better after losing every tournament they entered and then not playing is because?? Roster isn't stronger. Currently banned. Haven't played any meaningful international hockey since Covid. Some very good Russians like Ovi, Kuzy and Malkin may have played their last games for Russia without even knowing it. Are Kaprizov and Kucherov considered to be much better than Bure, Mogilny and Fedorov or Ovi/Malkin? I also hear the coach is a goof.lol

 

[Kshahdoo]

I'd say worse.. those early Russian teams had ridiculous forward talent. I don't see that today. Most recent forward to really do well is Svechnikov from 2018. I think he has more points than the 2019 to 2024 draft classes combined. Obviously too early to tell for Michkov and Demidov.

This... the reason Russia will be better after losing every tournament they entered and then not playing is because?? Roster isn't stronger. Currently banned. Haven't played any meaningful international hockey since Covid. Some very good Russians like Ovi, Kuzy and Malkin may have played their last games for Russia without even knowing it. Are Kaprizov and Kucherov considered to be much better than Bure, Mogilny and Fedorov or Ovi/Malkin? I also hear the coach is a goof.lol

Didn't Michkov destroy your Oilers with McDrai just 2 days ago?

The last best vs best tournament happened in 2016. USA and Finns finished it dead last in their groups, Russia got out of the group with defensemen like Kulikov, Emelin, Marchenko, Nesterov, Zaitsev and 37 year old Markov. Finns still couldn't score a single goal vs them. Out of that D group nobody would make Team Russia 2028. Yeah, forwards were great, but I'm pretty sure our forwards will be pretty close to that group in 2028. We won't have prime Ovi and Malkin, but we won't have guys like Telegin and Kulemin either.

 

[Fatass]

Ok, let's talk about Finland. Goalies, Finnish goalies wouldn't obviously make even top5 Russian goaltenders let alone top3.

As to "weak Russian defense", the only Finnish defenseman who would make it is Miro Heiskanen, all others are... well, not good enough.

Now forwards. Barkov will be 33 in 3 years, but I think he would still make Team Russia just because of he's a center (oh, and he speaks Russian fluently). Aho probably too, but I didn't like him at 4 Nations. Maybe young Russian kids will look better than him in 3 years. Rantanen... Well, he doesn't look great without MacKinnon, and who would you take him instead? Michkov and Demidov? No f***ing chances. 34 year old Kucherov? Probably still no. And he won't play on the 4th line. And other Finns are just not good enough.

So will you still insist you have nothing against Russia?

I have nothing against Russian hockey players. Imo their domestic league is dropping in its status and they aren’t producing elite players at the rate they once did. As a result they are below the top four hockey nations.

 

[Czechboy]

Didn't Michkov destroy your Oilers with McDrai just 2 days ago?

Please tell me you are not trying to compare the 3 in 2025?

That is a very are and appropriate use of my least fav HF expression - AINEC

Also, everyone has kicked the shit out of the Oilers in the last 2 games.lol

 

[Zine]

I have nothing against Russian hockey players. Imo their domestic league is dropping in its status and they aren’t producing elite players at the rate they once did. As a result they are below the top four hockey nations.

Liiga is much worse than the KHL, and Finland's player development is in a crisis. They have produced only 5 first round picks the past 5 years.

Russia is, at worst, #4 of the top hockey nations.