Team of the Decade: 3rd Pair LD

[Machinehead]

He defended plenty of good players in 2000. Tough nut then. His resume beyond that is debatable.

I could buy that he was effective one upon a time but he stayed in the NHL a decade past his expiration date.

The team was coached by Dan Bylsma and Brian Burke had a huge hand in putting it together. They went to that tournament to hit and grind, it's no secret. We can go around in circles all day debating the effectiveness of that but it's a poor measuring stick by which to judge a player's quality.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I could buy that he was effective one upon a time but he stayed in the NHL a decade past his expiration date.

The team was coached by Dan Bylsma and Brian Burke had a huge hand in putting it together. They went to that tournament to hit and grind, it's no secret. We can go around in circles all day debating the effectiveness of that but it's a poor measuring stick by which to judge a player's quality.

His name is SO close to being an anagram for "abysmal". I really wish his parents had named him Arnold or Alfred instead of Daniel.

 

[kovazub94]

For me, revisiting certain players has been an interesting experience.

For example, I was shocked that Hagelin’s numbers and Miller’s numbers were as close as they were.

Ditto for when I looked at Skjei’s best season vs. Yandle’s best season.

Our brains have a way of remembering things, categorizing information and then processing it. It’s strange when you “double check” things and find it’s not quite as clear cut as you thought. Sometimes you discover you may have a bias or two in the mix as well.

The way I think about it is that you start with a tie matching Skjei one good (his best) season with Yandle’s. Then you look at other factors as the “tie breakers”. To me these factors were Yandle’s use by AV on one hand and the fact that Skjei’s other seasons were mostly underwhelming (unlike Yandle’s). That’s why I think myself and a lot of other voted for Yandle even though he played significantly less in terms of sheer number of games.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Wrong about what? That AV had misused a proven 50-60 point offensive d-man?

Because that did happen

Remember where I said people had AVs imbecility to lean on? Why did you say this as if I hadn't already?

Hes also been a 50-60 point defender...on teams that use him a lot and always seem to lose. Maybe it's a coincidence. Hes had maybe 4 seasons on good-great teams.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

He put up 47 points playing third pair minutes.

If people were wrong about Yandle, what exactly were they saying?

Why would you say this as if I couldn't see his point totals? Why wouldn't you think about how much more there is to playing d?

Besides I already acknowledged AVs imbecility in my last post and this argument about his point totals (and nothing more) relies on AV being an imbecile.

All those points and it rarely ever felt like he did much to impact any game.

People focus way too much on point totals for dmen.. hes a 40-60 point dman not a 50-60. 6 years out of 15 he made it above 50.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I had to go with Yandle. I thought about going with Brady for a second but to be honest, I just couldn't do it. His play over the past few seasons hasn't exactly been inspiring. I think the fact that this poll is as close as it is says more about Brady Skjei than any other discussion we have had surrounding him. This should have easily been his spot vs. a guy that played 100ish games for us.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Hes also been a 50-60 point defender...on teams that use him ax lot and always seem to lose. Maybe it's a coincidence. Hes had maybe 4 seasons on good-great teams.

Yeah, because Yandle is the reason they lose, lol. Hockey is a team effort, this isn't the NBA.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Yeah, because Yandle is the reason they lose, lol. Hockey is a team effort, this isn't the NBA.

Why would you say that as if I was saying yandle is the only reason they'd lose?

Why would you ignore the second and 3rd sentences where I went out of my way to show it's not necessarily all his fault/that he has been on some successful teams?

Folks why are some of you on a discussion forum here if you don't know how to have an honest discussion? IS it a reading comprehension issue instead? Whatever it is, some of you really ought to do some self reflection

 

[JohnC]

Getting left off that disappointing as f*** 2014 US Olympic team should not be a black mark against a player.

Yandle and Bobby Ryan were obvious snubs as soon as the roster was announced and people were immediately lamenting them not being on the roster as soon as they put up that stinker of a Bronze medal game against Finland.

Yandle was a good player that was grossly misused by the corpse of Alain Vigneault.

 

[Edge]

The way I think about it is that you start with a tie matching Skjei one good (his best) season with Yandle’s. Then you look at other factors as the “tie breakers”. To me these factors were Yandle’s use by AV on one hand and the fact that Skjei’s other seasons were mostly underwhelming (unlike Yandle’s). That’s why I think myself and a lot of other voted for Yandle even though he played significantly less in terms of sheer number of games.

I just think if we consider use a tiebreaker, we'd have to factor in Skjei's use as well. I also think it becomes hard to compare underwhelming to non-existent.

Let's say their best season is a virtual tie. Skjei didn't have more good games in the additional 170 he's played than Yandle did in the additional 21 he played? I just don't see that.

So for me, that's where the sample size for Yandle is just too darn small for me to consider the whole "peak" approach.

Essentially, their best was a tie, and the rest goes to Skjei by virtue of playing nearly two additional seasons worth of games.

And interestingly enough, kind of lost in all this, is that Skjei is actually on pace for a 13 goal, 32 point season right now. So while no one really seems to believe he's the long-term future as a first pair defenseman, I think we're kind of blowing past that he hasn't exactly been without value either. It wasn't all concentrated in his rookie season.

 

[Machinehead]

Why would you say this as if I couldn't see his point totals? Why wouldn't you think about how much more there is to playing d?

Besides I already acknowledged AVs imbecility in my last post and this argument about his point totals (and nothing more) relies on AV being an imbecile.

All those points and it rarely ever felt like he did much to impact any game.

People focus way too much on point totals for dmen.. hes a 40-60 point dman not a 50-60. 6 years out of 15 he made it above 50.

You said people were wrong. I want to know what they said that was wrong.

Very few people expected Yandle to provide defensively.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

You said people were wrong. I want to know what they said that was wrong.

Very few people expected Yandle to provide defensively.

Then you'll have to go back and read the Yandle thread. The "encyclopedic knowledge of HF" part of my brain is shut down unfortunately...people had very high expectations and were thrilled to have Yandle aboard. They were wrong.He barely had any impact here. I can't think of even a handful of games where I sat up and thought "Holy crap look how great Yandle is!" Considering the way he was hyped up by this place, he was a massive let down when he was on the ice. But this place isn't able to appropriately analyze dmen bc all it knows how to do on the whole is look at points scored

 

[aufheben]

As far as I see it, Yandle and Skjei both had one good season here, and Yandle's was better. He was also great after the TDL and during the playoffs when they won the PT and made it to the ECF Game 7. He is/was also one of my favorite players to watch, whereas Brady Skjei has largely been infuriating (albeit good so far this season).

 

[kovazub94]

3 (or 4) more votes for Yandle and we won't need a tiebreak round.

 

[Machinehead]

Then you'll have to go back and read the Yandle thread. The "encyclopedic knowledge of HF" part of my brain is shut down unfortunately...people had very high expectations and were thrilled to have Yandle aboard. They were wrong.He barely had any impact here. I can't think of even a handful of games where I sat up and thought "Holy crap look how great Yandle is!" Considering the way he was hyped up by this place, he was a massive let down when he was on the ice. But this place isn't able to appropriately analyze dmen bc all it knows how to do on the whole is look at points scored

That's just not true at all.

Offensive defensemen are unfairly criticized on this site for the most part.

 

[Edge]

That's just not true at all.

Offensive defensemen are unfairly criticized on this site for the most part.

I think Leetch spoiled people and it's incredibly difficult to use him as the measuring stick.

Likewise, I suspect there's a good possibility we see a similar dilemma in the post-Lundqvist years.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I will understand the love that Yandle has received on this board.

The Garden ice caused AV to over use the Russian bias when he tried to ruin Yandle's development, or something like that.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

That's just not true at all.

Offensive defensemen are unfairly criticized on this site for the most part.

 

[kovazub94]

3 (or 4) more votes for Yandle and we won't need a tiebreak round.

Almost there.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

It has to be Skeji. None of the of the others played long enough in a Ranger uniform anyways other than maybe Del Zotto and he pretty much washed out and stunk with us other than one year.

So yeah Skeji pretty easily tho not exactly the greatest of choices.

This vote is the toughest call. I wish there were a "none of the above" option.

 

[Sayba]

His "bad defense" is way overblown. And sure, he's been successfully running a PP everywhere he's been, and then he comes here and can't do it all of a sudden? Yeah, AV had nothing to do with that...

The fact is, AV completely misused a 50-60 point proven offensive d-man. No two ways around that. That's when I started realizing that AV, as good as he is/was, got completely clueless at times.

He may have been misused, that's not the point. It's team of the decade based on what they did here.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

His "bad defense" is way overblown. And sure, he's been successfully running a PP everywhere he's been, and then he comes here and can't do it all of a sudden? Yeah, AV had nothing to do with that...

The fact is, AV completely misused a 50-60 point proven offensive d-man. No two ways around that. That's when I started realizing that AV, as good as he is/was, got completely clueless at times.

Lundqvist is Kovalev in stickhadling compared to Yandle's play in the south end of the rink

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

He defended plenty of good players in 2000. Tough nut then. His resume beyond that is debatable.

He had a short, yet super effective violent period.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Why would you say that as if I was saying yandle is the only reason they'd lose?

Why would you ignore the second and 3rd sentences where I went out of my way to show it's not necessarily all his fault/that he has been on some successful teams?

Folks why are some of you on a discussion forum here if you don't know how to have an honest discussion? IS it a reading comprehension issue instead? Whatever it is, some of you really ought to do some self reflection

I have to give you credit. I took a knee on having a discussion after the draft.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I think Leetch spoiled people and it's incredibly difficult to use him as the measuring stick.

Likewise, I suspect there's a good possibility we see a similar dilemma in the post-Lundqvist years.

The blueshirt faithful were weird with defensemen before Leetch was even drafted.

"Shoot the puck Barry!" and poor Harry Howell...f***ing top 30 player all time [to this day] is booed out of the garden, and they didn't even retire his number until they wanted to retire Graves, and the vast majority of fans that night went for a snack during the ceremony while that old bastard waved into the darkness.