Post-Game Talk: Team is still broken

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I don't think speed from the D matters all that much since the system is very heavy on pass-outs.

I'm tweaking you abit. Though the platoon d replacements are broadly a big drop off. But the team's early malaise cuts across all areas.

EDIT: Since the topic was team speed, this year's team is clocking in at 62 percentile down from past seasons of 93 percentile; 84 percentile and 90 percentile.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Arvidsson:
View attachment 920647

Podkolzin:
View attachment 920649

There's the player tracking data via NHL Edge for this season.

The loss of speed thing is overstated.

Thank you. Someone had to say it. Loss of speed is just being parroted about by people who read the oilers are thread and are just spouting it. It’s not based in reality.

He looks like he's on the edge of being injured all night. And no results to show for all that effort and grinding.

He's been hard to watch so far.

Oddly enough that’s Holloway looks as well

 

[MoontoScott]

His mom is Aho

I don't get it but I'll take your word for it.

 

[McDNicks17]

I'm tweaking you abit. Though the platoon d replacements are broadly a big drop off. But the team's early malaise cuts across all areas.

EDIT: Since the topic was team speed, this year's team is clocking in at 62 percentile down from past seasons of 93 percentile; 84 percentile and 90 percentile.

That 62% is just one player's top speed though. I wouldn't really say that says much about team speed.

Basically all that says is McDavid hasn't hit the same top speed he has in other years yet.

 

[guymez]

Interesting post and I agree.

I was watching the Pitts/Flamer game a bit and watched Crosby closely. At his advanced age, the legs aren't where they used to be, but the hands and smarts are still there and it's why he continues to produce at a high level even as he approaches 40. But the main thing I decided to watch confirms what I've seen about him from so many prior veiwings. Always on the right side of the puck, smart decisions in potentially dangerous situations that don't put his teammates at risk, and the ability to win most 50/50 battles. At this point in his career, and with the other aging vets going downhill, and not a lot of replacement talent, they likely won't make the playoffs again, but it won't be because of Sid. I sure wish some of that would rub off on McDrai in their own quest to lead the team. But still too many bad habits appearing too often, despite their immense talent, prime youth and ability to outscore a lot of the deficiencies.

100%
I especially agree with the highlighted portion.

If only Draisaitl and McDavid could take a page out of Sids book.

 

[Soundwave]

Three cups matter. A lot. Crosby was never going to be a guy that put up super nova points. He'd always get many more than his share, but his all round game is what sticks out and has made him successful, both individually and team wise. Pretty sure McDavid would trade in all his plus stats for a cup or two. And he might yet. But so far, Crosby is the mountain you try to scale.



No one ever said they didn't. But part of becoming a well rounded player that wins cups is to mitigate the brain farts and defensive miscues.

They were just in game 7 of a Cup Final where the result is a coin flip. McDavid just won the freaking Conn Smythe trophy too. They already proved they can play a style that gets you there.

We're just shooting a ridiculously low shooting percentage and everyone wants to point fingers at 5000 different things.

 

[Spawn]

A day later and honestly I don’t think the team is actually playing all that bad. Much like last years start it’s a combination of bad puck luck, a few instances of guys not baring down when they need to and poor goaltending.

Skinner had his best game of the season last night and ended up with a .909sv%.

In 7 games this season the goalie in the opposite net has put up worse than a .940sv% twice.

We’ve had the second best goalie in net in arguably all but one game this season.

Sooner or later the shooting percentage will normalize and our goalies will start making a few more saves on the PK.

Honestly even the PP started looking better yesterday 1 for 3, and the first PP that they didn’t score on they looked great.

 

[Soundwave]

100%
I especially agree with the highlighted portion.

If only Draisaitl and McDavid could take a page out of Sids book.

Crosby would have lost in round 1 or 2 last year even in his prime (in place of McDavid) with Stuart Skinner in net.

Go look for yourself in years where MAF didn't have good/great numbers in the playoffs or years where they didn't get very good goaltending ... the results are Crosby out in round 1 or round 2.

It's a lot easier to win a Cup when you have the best goalie on the ice almost every round, MAF had a 3-4 year funk in the playoffs where Crosby couldn't get shit done in the playoffs at all.

The difference is goaltending, something the management teams here has never made a priority.

 

[Oilslick941611]

100%
I especially agree with the highlighted portion.

If only Draisaitl and McDavid could take a page out of Sids book.

They are. They have looked like shit so far this year but are still producing.

 

[Messrules11]

I completely disagree and think the Oilers matched pace well.

I agree, maybe if our guys actually hit someone that would solve some problems.
How many hits have our guys put up this season? Aside from Podkolzin it’s quite disturbing.
Hearing footsteps is a thing.

 

[brentashton]

None of them look slow to me.

It was the same against Dallas. The Oilers for being an alleged “slow” team, were always in the play and carried it for 2 periods.

 

[OilfaninTO]

McDavid is a significantly better +/- player than Crosby, even in the playoffs Crosby had multiple playoff rounds where he was a minus player especially in years where his goaltending behind him wasn't stellar.

Dude, no. Crosby is far and away a better defensive player than McDavid. He’s not as fast so he needs to be smarter with his defensive positioning. You rarely see Sid blow the O-zone early like McDavid does fairly frequently. It’s pretty much the only area where McDavid needs improvement.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Wendo knows desperation is setting in

 

[Soundwave]

Dude, no. Crosby is far and away a better defensive player than McDavid. He’s not as fast so he needs to be smarter with his defensive positioning. You rarely see Sid blow the O-zone early like McDavid does fairly frequently. It’s pretty much the only area where McDavid needs improvement.

Do you want to see Crosby's stats in his 1st Cup Finals 2009? -3, with 3 whopping points (1 goal) in 7 games (Pittsburgh won, Malkin got Conn Smythe, MAF was outstanding in game 6 and 7).

Crosby has had many playoff series' as a minus player, many more times than McDavid.

-1 in 2010 playoffs vs Montreal (loss), -3 in round 1 vs Philly 2012 (1st round exit), 2013 -1 vs NYI (they won), -2 vs Boston 2013 (loss), -2 vs Columbus 2014 (won), -2 vs Rangers 2014 (loss) this is just for 2010-2014.

The Penguins have big disparity because their goaltending has been miles better.

2017 Cup
Round 1 vs Columbus - .933 (MAF)
Round 2 vs Wash - .921 (MAF)
Round 3 vs Ott - .910 (MAF) replaced .946 (Murray)
Round 4 vs Nash - .931 (Murray)

2016 Cup
Round 1 vs NYR - .955 (Murray)
Round 2 vs Wash - .926 (Murray)
Round 3 vs Tampa - .904 (Murray) series went to game 7 (Crosby 0 points in g7)
Round 4 vs SJS - .920 (Murray)

2009 Cup
Round 1 Vs. Phil - .922 (MAF)
Round 2 Vs. Wash - .878 (MAF) vs. .895 (Varlamov/Theodore)
Round 3 Vs. Carolina - .924 (MAF)
Round 4 Vs. Det - .913 (MAF) outstanding in game 6 + 7

Basically in 3 runs, Pittsburgh had 1 whopping round total where their goaltending was "bad" and they got lucky in that round because Washington's goalies were about the same (crap).

That's actually the magic difference.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

That 62% is just one player's top speed though. I wouldn't really say that says much about team speed.

Basically all that says is McDavid hasn't hit the same top speed he has in other years yet.

Fair point. You're right. I'm wrong on the generalization I made. But this is a surprise to see the Oilers top speed clocking in at over twenty five percentile+ drop than their past three years even begging off the Captain's big personal off-season and short one.

 

[CanadasTeam99]

Do you want to see Crosby's stats in his 1st Cup Finals 2009? -3, with 3 whopping points (1 goal) in 7 games (Pittsburgh won, Malkin got Conn Smythe, MAF was outstanding in game 6 and 7).

Crosby has had many playoff series' as a minus player, many more times than McDavid.

-1 in 2010 playoffs vs Montreal (loss), -3 in round 1 vs Philly 2012 (1st round exit), 2013 -1 vs NYI (they won), -2 vs Boston 2013 (loss), -2 vs Columbus 2014 (won), -2 vs Rangers 2014 (loss) this is just for 2010-2014.

The Penguins have big disparity because their goaltending has been miles better.

2017 Cup
Round 1 vs Columbus - .933 (MAF)
Round 2 vs Wash - .921 (MAF)
Round 3 vs Ott - .910 (MAF) replaced .946 (Murray)
Round 4 vs Nash - .931 (Murray)

2016 Cup
Round 1 vs NYR - .955 (Murray)
Round 2 vs Wash - .926 (Murray)
Round 3 vs Tampa - .904 (Murray) series went to game 7 (Crosby 0 points in g7)
Round 4 vs SJS - .920 (Murray)

2009 Cup
Round 1 Vs. Phil - .922 (MAF)
Round 2 Vs. Wash - .878 (MAF) vs. .895 (Varlamov/Theodore)
Round 3 Vs. Carolina - .924 (MAF)
Round 4 Vs. Det - .913 (MAF) outstanding in game 6 + 7

Basically in 3 runs, Pittsburgh had 1 whopping round total where their goaltending was "bad" and they got lucky in that round because Washington's goalies were about the same (crap).

That's actually the magic difference.

Great post. Meanwhile we act like we won the jackpot 6/49 when Skinner puts up a 0.900 lol

 

[Spawn]

Dude, no. Crosby is far and away a better defensive player than McDavid. He’s not as fast so he needs to be smarter with his defensive positioning. You rarely see Sid blow the O-zone early like McDavid does fairly frequently. It’s pretty much the only area where McDavid needs improvement.

This opinion of Crosby being better than McDavid defensively is both outdated and a perpetual figment of people’s imagination. Crosby wasn’t considered a strong defensive player until he no longer was threatening to win the scoring race. It was a narrative to add to his legacy. Crosby has always been a mid tier defensive player. Never anything more.

McDavid meanwhile was legitimately one of the best defensive forwards in the league last season.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

A day later and honestly I don’t think the team is actually playing all that bad. Much like last years start it’s a combination of bad puck luck, a few instances of guys not baring down when they need to and poor goaltending.

Skinner had his best game of the season last night and ended up with a .909sv%.

In 7 games this season the goalie in the opposite net has put up worse than a .940sv% twice.

We’ve had the second best goalie in net in arguably all but one game this season.

Sooner or later the shooting percentage will normalize and our goalies will start making a few more saves on the PK.

Honestly even the PP started looking better yesterday 1 for 3, and the first PP that they didn’t score on they looked great.

You'd think they would accidentally blow a team out but they aren't even capable of that. They were probably lucky to get a point in this game. It really doesn't seem like they care as much as they should.

Also teams are gunning for them and they're just not prepared for it.

 

[guymez]

They are. They have looked like shit so far this year but are still producing.

I dont think you are following along here.
Have another look at @Stoneman89 's post.

 

[OilfaninTO]

This opinion of Crosby being better than McDavid defensively is both outdated and a perpetual figment of people’s imagination. Crosby wasn’t considered a strong defensive player until he no longer was threatening to win the scoring race. It was a narrative to add to his legacy. Crosby has always been a mid tier defensive player. Never anything more.

McDavid meanwhile was legitimately one of the best defensive forwards in the league last season.

Hockey world disagrees.

 

[Spawn]

Hockey world disagrees.

Thanks for proving my point?

There’s no metric anywhere to suggest Sidney Crosby is one of the best defensive players in the league and yet two writers gave him first place in Selke votes.

Its narrative driven.

 

[Hemsky4pm2]

View attachment 920661

Ryan Spooner was not a good or fast skater, was he?

 

[McDNicks17]

Ryan Spooner was not a good or fast skater, was he?

He was pretty quick.

At least Chia thought he was. That was the year that Chia repeated "we've got to get faster" a few times in every presser after building a big, slow team.

 

[OilfaninTO]

Thanks for proving my point?

There’s no metric anywhere to suggest Sidney Crosby is one of the best defensive players in the league and yet two writers gave him first place in Selke votes.

Its narrative driven.

Proving your point? No, you just live in delusion where you think you know more than the professionals covering hockey.

 

[Spawn]

Proving your point? No, you just live in delusion where you think you know more than the professionals covering hockey.

Just because someone writes some junk article in a newspaper that no one reads anymore or hosts an internet podcast doesn’t give them some sort of otherworldly knowledge on hockey.

Most writers are only watching games the team they cover plays.