FinPanda
Barkov Stanley cup champ!
From the start it has felt like this team haven't had what it takes. Too weak defense, bad goaltending.. our forward lines are a mess. Expected. I hope this will be good for Finnish hockey in long-term though.
Team Finland WC 2023
- Thread starter jonlin
- Start date
mattihp
Registered User
The player selection is the problem. Wasting a roster spot on Sallinen and not getting a versatile offensive player to replace Laine. The Suomela gamble was understandable.
This was also due to the fact that Finland, as with previous gold wins, has always set accents in the RR. Whether it was the surprising victory on matchday 1 vs Canada in 2019 or the great 4:2 vs Slovakia afterwards. 2022 Olympia the 4:3 OT vs Sweden or the strong RR at the WC 2022. But this time there was 0 inspiration in the preliminary round.
karhukissa
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2019
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Complete disaster, Finland had more than enough chances to score. Jalonen can't put the puck to the net though. But it's clear that Finland was scouted very well, every team had all of their d-men and centre just stacked in front of their net, because that's where Finns score.
Also Finnish fans were terrible, we've won too much for the fans to care like they used to. We could see that already last year after gold medals, there wasn't party mode like we used to have. This is a good wakeup call.
Our defence was too slow, way too slow. Pokka and Ohtamaa - BYE. Never again on this level.
Also Finnish fans were terrible, we've won too much for the fans to care like they used to. We could see that already last year after gold medals, there wasn't party mode like we used to have. This is a good wakeup call.
Our defence was too slow, way too slow. Pokka and Ohtamaa - BYE. Never again on this level.
mattihp
Registered User
The fans is much because of the ticket prices. Too many corporate seats and to be honest.. The working class has some of the best fans.
ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Only if those brain-dead morons in liitto will took their brains out their assses and re-sign.
But i wouldn't hold my breath to wait that happen.
Harri Nummela and Sami Kauhanen and their kiss my ass sauna country-club friends
are like excrusiating tooth-ache which won't go away no matter what pain-meds you're taking.
Finnish hockey's player development, prospect production
and national team coaching needs total rebuild this mediocrity
embarrassment needs to STOP right here and right now if the goal
is win another Olympic gold 2026 with NHL players.
I dont give a f*** about few skoda cups ( 2024, 2025, 2026 ) without medals.
I only wanna see Leijonat winning gold in 2026 Winter olympics and
younger players ( Halttunen, Kemell, Lambert, Pärssinen, Maccelli etc )
getting chances to play IIHF worlds as soon as next year
So time to start make drastic changes is now
when there's 2,5 years to next Olympics.
Jalonen has done his part now it is time to bring in new head coach
who's gameplan is from 2020 century not 2010 century like Jalonen's was.
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Jukka Jalonen is still the man. I hope he stays as the head coach for next year's tournament as well. If that ends in a QF exit as well, then the discussion may begin to fire our all time coach, who is possibly also the best national team tournament coach in the history of ice hockey, but even with a poor result next year I'd question firing him. The Marjamäki era was not fun times and we could go back to something like that with a different coach.
Let me also say that loosing Pennanen back in the day from the coaching staff was a big deal. If I remember right his last tournament as an assistant coach was in 2019. Maybe he did 1 more tournament after that, not quire sure, but it felt like things didn't get better with Selin in there. Although we did win WHC & OC last year I wish we had never lost Pennanen.
For next year's tournament I want to see a lot of new faces in there. We need Maccellis, Välimäki's and the likes. I hope that we don't get as unlucky with the NHL reinforcements as we got this year. Once again not enough of them came because 3 of 4 NHL semifinalist teams are loaded with Finns. It would've also been fun to see Laine in the tournament and maybe our terrible PP would've been better with him around, but unlucky with the injury again. Big minus to the entire coaching staff for not being able to fix our PP during the entire tournament. This team was also in need of Granny and Heiskanen, but it was bit unlucky with Granny as well that he got traded in the middle of the season and that was probably the biggest reason why he didn't come this year.
One more big factor that affected the tournament result and us getting a harder QF opponent than most other teams was the bizarre tournament schedule. We faced the 3 hardest teams in the 3 first games, which was not ideal. I don't know who decided this. Was it the Finnish tournament oganizers or our team's leadership, I don't know, but it was a very poor selection of tournament schedule. We needed one or two of the tougher teams at the end of the preliminary round and the chance to battle for the group win would've been still there.
Let me also say that loosing Pennanen back in the day from the coaching staff was a big deal. If I remember right his last tournament as an assistant coach was in 2019. Maybe he did 1 more tournament after that, not quire sure, but it felt like things didn't get better with Selin in there. Although we did win WHC & OC last year I wish we had never lost Pennanen.
For next year's tournament I want to see a lot of new faces in there. We need Maccellis, Välimäki's and the likes. I hope that we don't get as unlucky with the NHL reinforcements as we got this year. Once again not enough of them came because 3 of 4 NHL semifinalist teams are loaded with Finns. It would've also been fun to see Laine in the tournament and maybe our terrible PP would've been better with him around, but unlucky with the injury again. Big minus to the entire coaching staff for not being able to fix our PP during the entire tournament. This team was also in need of Granny and Heiskanen, but it was bit unlucky with Granny as well that he got traded in the middle of the season and that was probably the biggest reason why he didn't come this year.
One more big factor that affected the tournament result and us getting a harder QF opponent than most other teams was the bizarre tournament schedule. We faced the 3 hardest teams in the 3 first games, which was not ideal. I don't know who decided this. Was it the Finnish tournament oganizers or our team's leadership, I don't know, but it was a very poor selection of tournament schedule. We needed one or two of the tougher teams at the end of the preliminary round and the chance to battle for the group win would've been still there.
ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Kommentti: Leijonien MM-kisoista tuli karmea katastrofi – Jukka Jalonen myönsi virheensä liian myöhään
Puolivälierän paniikkiratkaisu oli täydellisen osuva kirsikka Leijonien MM-turnauksen sukellukselle, kirjoittaa Ville Touru Tampereelta.
www.is.fi
Suomi teki noloa historiaa – mitalisaalis romahti nollaan!
Suomen jääkiekkomaajoukkueet jäivät ilman mitalia tällä kaudella.
www.is.fi
WAKE UP LIITTO and start do something.
Well. That was it then. And I'd say it's mostly on Jalonen. He got a bit too complacent here.
On one hand, it's hard to fault the man. He was simply doing what's worked so well over the last four years. Don't freak out after the first setback, but give it time and see if everything clicks.
Only it's a fine line between giving it time and giving it too much time. And now Jalonen stumbled over that line. He should have reacted sooner, seen how we could get more out of supposed heavy hitters.
Now, we had issues up and down the lineup, both with forwards and defense, so it's not like one should dump it all on the first line not clicking. But, regardless - despite all of his assists, the fact that Rantanen didn't pot a goal in the preliminary round should have been a big warning sign that he's not utilized properly. Jalonen ignored it, partly due to his belief that patience will prevail, partly because he was left with little choice. Our middle-six did start to click towards the tail end of the group stage, so breaking up those 2nd and 3rd lines in favor of the 1st might have led to diminishing rewards.
Perhaps he could also have picked some different names. There's no single individual forward we should call out, but man it was obvious that Anttila is past his due date. Also, he probably should have picked MaG and just use that well-baked unit - as it would have given him more options to try something different with our NHLers. Again, it's hard to wonder if it wasn't due to complacency, as it would have caused a musical chairs effect down the lineup, putting some familiar in jeopardy.
Our defense was not up to speed either. Too slow, not enough puckmovers. This was, however, an issue that was baked in by the time the team was named. Again, could Jalonen have made different choices? About a week before the tournament began, he had Saarijärvi and Kemiläinen in the lineup, and probably a plan to add Vatanen. But then Saarijärvi got injured in camp, Vatanen in the Swiss league finals, and Kemiläinen simply sucked on the final EHT.
Finally, goalies. Again, I think Jalonen might have gotten a bit too complacent by giving his familiar Olkinuora a spot in the playing tandem after the season he had. When Olkinuora looked a bit shaky in the game vs. Germany and Larmi didn't exactly deliver a clinic against USA and Sweden, was there really no time to see what Heljanko might bring to the table? There is no saying that he would have been the savior between the pipes for sure, but now Jalonen never even gave him a chance.
So, to sum up - Jalonen made some pretty egregious mistakes, partly likely due to his own complacency, partly because of having some circumstantial setbacks. If there's a silver lining here, it's that Jalonen is a coach who's shown that he can learn from his mistakes. He will be behind the bench for one more year, so we might see a bit less complacent edition of him in what looks to be his farewell tournament.
One last thing, which is by no means the fault of the coaches or the players, but damn the atmosphere in Nokia Arena sucked hard. I was green with envy watching the Latvian fans rock the house in Riga. Somebody needs to smack the Liitto bigwigs, then play them a side-by-side recording of the audiences in Riga and Tampere. It's the effin' hockey capital of Finland, and the arena resembled a church at times. Un-freaking-acceptable.
On one hand, it's hard to fault the man. He was simply doing what's worked so well over the last four years. Don't freak out after the first setback, but give it time and see if everything clicks.
Only it's a fine line between giving it time and giving it too much time. And now Jalonen stumbled over that line. He should have reacted sooner, seen how we could get more out of supposed heavy hitters.
Now, we had issues up and down the lineup, both with forwards and defense, so it's not like one should dump it all on the first line not clicking. But, regardless - despite all of his assists, the fact that Rantanen didn't pot a goal in the preliminary round should have been a big warning sign that he's not utilized properly. Jalonen ignored it, partly due to his belief that patience will prevail, partly because he was left with little choice. Our middle-six did start to click towards the tail end of the group stage, so breaking up those 2nd and 3rd lines in favor of the 1st might have led to diminishing rewards.
Perhaps he could also have picked some different names. There's no single individual forward we should call out, but man it was obvious that Anttila is past his due date. Also, he probably should have picked MaG and just use that well-baked unit - as it would have given him more options to try something different with our NHLers. Again, it's hard to wonder if it wasn't due to complacency, as it would have caused a musical chairs effect down the lineup, putting some familiar in jeopardy.
Our defense was not up to speed either. Too slow, not enough puckmovers. This was, however, an issue that was baked in by the time the team was named. Again, could Jalonen have made different choices? About a week before the tournament began, he had Saarijärvi and Kemiläinen in the lineup, and probably a plan to add Vatanen. But then Saarijärvi got injured in camp, Vatanen in the Swiss league finals, and Kemiläinen simply sucked on the final EHT.
Finally, goalies. Again, I think Jalonen might have gotten a bit too complacent by giving his familiar Olkinuora a spot in the playing tandem after the season he had. When Olkinuora looked a bit shaky in the game vs. Germany and Larmi didn't exactly deliver a clinic against USA and Sweden, was there really no time to see what Heljanko might bring to the table? There is no saying that he would have been the savior between the pipes for sure, but now Jalonen never even gave him a chance.
So, to sum up - Jalonen made some pretty egregious mistakes, partly likely due to his own complacency, partly because of having some circumstantial setbacks. If there's a silver lining here, it's that Jalonen is a coach who's shown that he can learn from his mistakes. He will be behind the bench for one more year, so we might see a bit less complacent edition of him in what looks to be his farewell tournament.
One last thing, which is by no means the fault of the coaches or the players, but damn the atmosphere in Nokia Arena sucked hard. I was green with envy watching the Latvian fans rock the house in Riga. Somebody needs to smack the Liitto bigwigs, then play them a side-by-side recording of the audiences in Riga and Tampere. It's the effin' hockey capital of Finland, and the arena resembled a church at times. Un-freaking-acceptable.
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Eye of Ra
Grandmaster General of the International boards
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
In the words of Tomppa Sjöberg: "Some times we win, some times we lose and this time we lost."
This is what i said in last June, and now is the time. Time rebuild the national team core, leave double and the few triple champs home. They done their service for the national team. It's time to get more hungrier players in and i think Jalonen should do that favor for the next coach.
I have the same feeling that if J.Jalonen is our head coach for next year's tournament as well that it will be his last for now regardless of the result, because it just feels like something that he would do. Contract for next year or not, he can leave at any time he wants to and no one will sue him, so I don't think his contract locks him to coach next year's tournament. I see J.Jalonen returning to NT head coaching after some years off though. Maybe he would like to coach in Swiss league soon since NHL doesn't seem to want him. I'd love to see him getting a chance to coach an actual best on best NT tournament. This could motivate him staying for longer.
As you said, J.Jalonen as a smart guy learns from his mistakes and I'm excited to see how he would revamp this current core, because we need some kind of revamp. We also need more luck with the right NHL teams getting eliminated.
What could make an interesting discussion is who are the players to be left out and who should stay? On the top of my head I don't want to see Pokka anymore there. Is Ohtamaa's time also over? BTW, I don't understand Manninen's selection as one of the 3 MVP players of Finland. Rantanen & Kapanen were right, but the third player should've been Lehtonen or Seppälä.
Yes, we definitely need some drastic changes in Liitto, or there's a real risk that the Finnish players most likely to feature in that tournament - assuming the NHL is involved - will be a shadow of their present selves. Barkov, Aho, Rantanen and Heiskanen are sure to decline because Liitto can't get its act together.
Sarcasm aside - yes, there's a lot of rot in Liitto's structures that should be aired out. But the only thing that will affect the olympics is the name of Jalonen's successor. So unless they hire a total sauna buddy instead of the most competent person available, whatever those dusty suits at Liitto do or don't do will have little effect on the olympic performance 2,5 years from now.
Various junior classes and women's hockey need more attention - but even if that attention is provided today, we won't see any returns until 4-5 years from now, at the earliest.
Jalonen has a year left of his contract and he's already gone on the record that he's not looking for an extension. So we should be speculating on the name of his successor rather than whether he deserves to be fired.
We can't win every year guys, and at least we didn't lose to Latvia lol! We will come again.
Pennanen would be my #1 choice. Törmänen second or possibly Olli Jokinen. I'm probably forgetting someone. I think that Manner would be a mistake. He should stay as an assistant coach max.
Törmänen looks like a longshot due to his ongoing cancer treatments - he hasn't seen a full season behind the bench for the last three years. Jokinen's surpassed the expectations so far, but his CV as a coach might still be a bit too thin.
Pennanen is a high profile name with decent merits, and he should be included in the speculations. "The name you forgot" is probably the most accomplished Finnish coach of the last few years - Jussi Tapola.
Of course, being an accomplished club team coach doesn't always translate to NT success. They're two rather different environments.
He would've been one of my top choices a season or two back, but it feels like his stock has gone down a bit since his incredible U20 tournament results. He could be a good tournament coach at men's as well. We could have him start as an assistant coach and drive him in that way, while Pennanen or Törmänen would be the head coach. Of course a lot of it has to do with person chemistry. Which head coach works with which assistant coach so we don't get two alfas clash heads so to speak.
karhukissa
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2019
- 1,904
- 2,671
Finland didn't actually play bad at any point, but every team scouted how Finland plays in the o-zone. Jalonen should've reacted after group stage, but then again he trusted (and had every right to do so) the system.
Finland controlled every game like always, but d-men were way too slow and fast team like Canada will use it brutally for their advantage. What can you do if we can't score? Is it really Jalonen's fault?
Brutal fact is that usually team with better goalie wins, and Larmi was bad. This should never happen with "Meidän Peli" because goalie is in very vital role.
Finland controlled every game like always, but d-men were way too slow and fast team like Canada will use it brutally for their advantage. What can you do if we can't score? Is it really Jalonen's fault?
Brutal fact is that usually team with better goalie wins, and Larmi was bad. This should never happen with "Meidän Peli" because goalie is in very vital role.
FinPanda
Barkov Stanley cup champ!
Thanks to all the people discussing here this year. Wasn't our year but we will be better and stronger next year. I'm pretty sure we all are satisfied with our three finals in a row with two gold medals + Olympic gold.
Just 1 remark:
- if Mikael Granlund would of accepted this year as well, I think this would of made a huge difference, in fact it was the deciding factor. With MiG onboard, Rantanen would have been right on track since the beginning etc. etc.
But hockey gods don't like too much domination and congrats to CAN !
- if Mikael Granlund would of accepted this year as well, I think this would of made a huge difference, in fact it was the deciding factor. With MiG onboard, Rantanen would have been right on track since the beginning etc. etc.
But hockey gods don't like too much domination and congrats to CAN !
Tapola gets a no from me. As a tournament coach I get Marjamäki/Rautakorpi vibes of him. My feeling is that he would be one of those cases. I give a lot of respect for Marjamäki, Rautakorpi and Tapola for what they have done with club teams though.
The thing with Tapola is that he's always coached the same team. If he had got Liiga championship with some underdog team or with Tappara + another team, then I'd give him a lot more credit. Also the fact that Tappara has always been a high budget team, but especially now with the new arena. Tappara now is like the 90's and early 2000's Jokerit with it's budget when we compare it to their competition. I assume just Ilves is quite close to that budget.
Tapola's route to NT head coach would have to come via being assistant coach of NT first or being U20 tournament head coach and prove himself, but I doubt that the latter will ever happen.
Toni Söderholm is another name, but his merits probably aren't enough. He'd have to be assistant coach of Finland first and we'd have to success while he would be in the staff.
Another interesting name could be Tommi Niemelä. He did just coach an underdog team to Liiga finals and he has that junior gold medal as a head coach, so he has proven something in a tournament setting and with a club team. He could be some kind of wild card option in the mix of potential head coaches. Maybe that's still in the future though. Pennanen has better resume though. He should be the one.
