Team Europe should be like Team NA but the rest of the world

[KingsFan7824]

Do you really have to ask? Because it is the the best players from the same kind of entity (= nations) competing against each other for the glory of their nations.
Which is the way international competitions at nations level have been + are organized in all sports, all over the world. This is NOT a new concept, it has been around for eons.

I, and many others, derive entertainment by seeing their nation compete against other nations. Hoping to see them win. Hoping to see the flag raised and hear the anthem. If you are in NA, that should mean something, seeing that you play your anthems for absolutely everything. It is to glorify one's NATION, not some made up team.

If your goal is "entertainment" (meaning highest concentration of quality players), by that logic the highlight of the season is the All Star Game, right? Furthermore, you must be severely unhappy with the NHL because every team has their fair share of duds, meaning those guys on 4th lines and your average 6th / 7th defensemen. Wouldn't it be better to make up say 4 teams in the NHL instead of 30? Nice concentration of talent. "The goal is entertainment", right?
No? Why not then?

At the same time, how many people complain that the NHL isn't entertaining enough, and watching teams try to win by whatever means(with things like defense, laying on the ice to block shots, or whatever silly ideas like that) isn't enough? It's not about winning, it's about being entertained first and foremost. We want more goals!

With this tournament, now it's about the little things. You'd rather see Switzerland, and whatever small odds they would have of winning by whatever strategy they would have to devise as a small nation against the big bad countries, than the potentially more entertaining Team NA, with an eclectic collection of talent.

The Panthers or Devils in the mid 90's ruined hockey as a sport. A non-power nation in international tournaments implementing what would probably be some sort of defensive system is the height of hockey.

 

[Elvs]

At the same time, how many people complain that the NHL isn't entertaining enough, and watching teams try to win by whatever means(with things like defense, laying on the ice to block shots, or whatever silly ideas like that) isn't enough? It's not about winning, it's about being entertained first and foremost. We want more goals!

With this tournament, now it's about the little things. You'd rather see Switzerland, and whatever small odds they would have of winning by whatever strategy they would have to devise as a small nation against the big bad countries, than the potentially more entertaining Team NA, with an eclectic collection of talent.

The Panthers or Devils in the mid 90's ruined hockey as a sport. A non-power nation in international tournaments implementing what would probably be some sort of defensive system is the height of hockey.

So, would you be in favour of removing Finland and the Czechs from the World Cup? And replace them with Canada B and Canada C? I mean, on paper they'd be better and thus making the World Cup better.

USA lost 2-5 tonight and was outshot by a pretty wide margin. Maybe give them some of Canada's players to even things out?

I'd me more ok with this format if it was called "North America Cup" or "NHL cup" or whatever. Because among those who are in favour of this format, 99% are from Canada/USA. You shouldn't name a tournament the "World Cup" if the World disagrees with it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

A series of 5-7 between Team Europe vs Team NA like the Ryder Cup would be awesome. Of course the purists will scream to the high heavens about tradition but what can you do, some people are just stuck in their ways. The level of hockey would likely be the best we've ever seen and the games would be very intense.

The Ryder Cup started as a nation vs nation competition and evolved into what it is today precisely because one nation was much stronger than the other and it wasn't competitive. There are some obvious parallels here to Canada in hockey for those with eyes open. If they do decide to try this, I think the result could be so awesome that it becomes clear that this is the way to go. Maybe in 50 years it will be an ingrained tradition like, well like the Ryder Cup is today. The purists will still have the WHC, everybody should be happy.

 

[KingsFan7824]

So, would you be in favour of removing Finland and the Czechs from the World Cup? And replace them with Canada B and Canada C? I mean, on paper they'd be better and thus making the World Cup better.

I can't say I'm specifically in favor of any single format. Perfect world, sure, just go with 6, or 8, or 10, or whatever number of strict national teams. I get why that's aesthetically and philosophically pleasing. It's not that I find anything wrong with that format. An age restricted Team Canada, Team USA, and Team NA is a little odd. More odd than a Team Europe, made up of guys not from any national teams involved.

I get why they did this tournament the way they did too. It's the first Canada/World Cup since the big NHL lockout. The PA has more say in things. This is a joint venture between the NHL and NHLPA. They wanted as many NHL players in the tournament as possible, while also having some of the usual international feel to it.

In these pre-tournament games, the usual national teams seem to care so far. Team NA is at least an interesting anomaly, even if the basic concept is off. Team Europe, I get why that's a weird situation, for players or fans.

They tried something. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. We'll see what they do for sure in the future.

 

[JackSlater]

A series of 5-7 between Team Europe vs Team NA like the Ryder Cup would be awesome. Of course the purists will scream to the high heavens about tradition but what can you do, some people are just stuck in their ways. The level of hockey would likely be the best we've ever seen and the games would be very intense.

The Ryder Cup started as a nation vs nation competition and evolved into what it is today precisely because one nation was much stronger than the other and it wasn't competitive. There are some obvious parallels here to Canada in hockey for those with eyes open. If they do decide to try this, I think the result could be so awesome that it becomes clear that this is the way to go. Maybe in 50 years it will be an ingrained tradition like, well like the Ryder Cup is today. The purists will still have the WHC, everybody should be happy.

You'll notice that most don't have a problem with the Ryder Cup thing.

 

[BruinLVGA]

At the same time, how many people complain that the NHL isn't entertaining enough, and watching teams try to win by whatever means(with things like defense, laying on the ice to block shots, or whatever silly ideas like that) isn't enough? It's not about winning, it's about being entertained first and foremost. We want more goals!

With this tournament, now it's about the little things. You'd rather see Switzerland, and whatever small odds they would have of winning by whatever strategy they would have to devise as a small nation against the big bad countries, than the potentially more entertaining Team NA, with an eclectic collection of talent.

The Panthers or Devils in the mid 90's ruined hockey as a sport. A non-power nation in international tournaments implementing what would probably be some sort of defensive system is the height of hockey.

Sport IS about winning first and foremost. NOT entertainment for its own sake. Why would they even count goals otherwise?
Players seem to be happy about being Olympic champions, Stanley Cup champions, World champions, etc etc and their fans too.
I have never seen or heard anyone be ecstatic about their team being the most entertaining but losing: "hey, we didn't get to the playoffs, but dekes like xyz does or perfect shots like abc does or hits like hjk does are the most entertaining in the whole league! I don't need a Cup, I couldn't be happier!!!"... Said no one ever.

If entertainment irregardless of result is #1 for you personally, then I would say that sports aren't for you, there's plenty of other non-competitive stuff like movies, shows, theater, TV, books etc etc... Or if you itch for something closer to sport, there's stuff like Stars on Ice or the Harlem Globetrotters or the NHL's All Star Game, etc etc.

I care about seeing teams who 1) are of the same type (clubs vs clubs OR nations vs nations), thus ensuring a level playing field... and... 2) EARNED their place on the back of their RESULTS (either directly, as in qualifications, or via results generating a ranking system). I couldn't care less who that team(s) is(are). As long as they got their results, then they fully deserve it.
On the other hand, if a tournament becomes invitational, it instantly loses ALL credibility.

Nobody ruined hockey. Hockey is alive and well world wide, it's one of the major sports. You are on a site dedicated to it, it's not a site devoted to extinct sports.
The "height of hockey" is who wins the most important tournament (as it currently is, that would be the Olympics), irregardless of who that is or if they employ a defensive system or not. That is until someone will introduce style points as modifier to the final score. Something that I bet you would love and something that I think would be a farce. To each his own.

 

[saskganesh]

Once you decide that the "national" aspect of an "international" tournament is of no consequence, there is a logic to the idea of having Canadians and Americans pretend to be Italians/English/whatever.

I'm sure many people would be thrilled with the idea of Team Quebec competing as Team "France".

Horrible optics.

In general, the idea of the NHL employing ethnic screening to make up fantasy rosters is really dumb and tone deaf.

 

[jniklast]

But I mean is that the concept? I guess the entire province of Quebec would theoretically be eligible for France.

That's so gonna grow the game there

 

[Xokkeu]

That's so gonna grow the game there

Growing the game seems to be the last thing on the NHL's mind. At this point it seems their only concern is getting as many NHL players in a tournament as possible.

 

[RandV]

It's early but so far 'team North America' with under 23 (or is it 23 and under?) players seems to be a hit while 'team Europe' with the left over vets from other nations a flop. If the NHL wants to build off the idea for next time I think this could work well for everyone:

- Expand to a proper international hockey tournament size (12-16 teams)
- Quarter final elimination games
- One team is under 23 North America, another for under 23 Europe
- National teams get first dibs on all players regardless of age

The last point is key. You don't deny Finland key players like Barkov or Laine, but you let other exciting young Finnish players like Rantanen and Puljujarvi into the tournament. And of course you get your full team Switzlerand, Slovakia, Germany, Belarus, etc, for the tournament.

 

[Mattb124]

Proof that Slovakia and Switzerland could have iced almost full rosters consisting of players from the NHL PA.

Marian Hossa (CHI)
Marian Gaborik (LAK)
Tomas Tatar (DET)
Marko Dano (WIN)
Richard Panik (CHI)
Tomas Jurco (DET)
Marek Hrivik (NYR)
Martin Reway (MTL)
Peter Cehlarik (BOS)

Zdeno Chara (BOS)
Andrej Sekera (EDM)
Martin Marincin (TOR)
Erik Cernak (LAK)

Jaroslav Halak (NYI)
Peter Budaj (LAK)

---

Nino Niederreiter (MIN)
Sven Baertschi (VAN)
Sven Andrighetto (MTL)
Kevin Fiala (NSH)
Tanner Richard (TBL)
Joel Vermin (TBL)
Christoph Bertschy (MIN)
Timo Meier (SJS)
Denis Malgin (FLA)

Roman Josi (NSH)
Mark Streit (PHI)
Luca Sbisa (VAN)
Yannick Weber (NSH)
Mirco Muller (SJS)
Dean Kukan (CBJ)
Jonas Siegenthaler (WAS)

Reto Berra (FLA)

---

Fill the holes with European league players, some who are even better than many names listed above. These two nations would be just as good as the Gimmic Euro team, and they'd defenitely put up a fight with the Czechs. And on a good day, they could threat the better nations too.

Members of the NHL Players Association is not equal to NHL players. You list a number of players who did not play an NHL game last season.

How many players on Team Canada or Team USA would fit that description? None.

 

[Elvs]

Members of the NHL Players Association is not equal to NHL players. You list a number of players who did not play an NHL game last season

A common excuse for excluding Slovakia and Switzerland is because they would need too many players from Europe to fill a roster. As the European leagues might not let them go. Being in the NHLPA makes them eligible to play in the tournament. So in reality, Slovakia or Switzerland would barely need more players from Europe than the Czechs.

 

[Elvs]

Actually, let's break it down.

Marian Hossa (CHI)
Marian Gaborik (LAK)
Tomas Tatar (DET)
Marko Dano (WIN)
Richard Panik (CHI)
Tomas Jurco (DET)
Marek Hrivik (NYR)
Martin Reway (MTL)
Peter Cehlarik (BOS)

Zdeno Chara (BOS)
Andrej Sekera (EDM)
Martin Marincin (TOR)
Erik Cernak (LAK)

Jaroslav Halak (NYI)
Peter Budaj (LAK)

---

Nino Niederreiter (MIN)
Sven Baertschi (VAN)
Sven Andrighetto (MTL)
Kevin Fiala (NSH)
Tanner Richard (TBL)
Joel Vermin (TBL)
Christoph Bertschy (MIN)
Timo Meier (SJS)
Denis Malgin (FLA)

Roman Josi (NSH)
Mark Streit (PHI)
Luca Sbisa (VAN)
Yannick Weber (NSH)
Mirco Muller (SJS)
Dean Kukan (CBJ)
Jonas Siegenthaler (WAS)

Reto Berra (FLA)

---

Bolded players have played in the NHL. That's quite many.

Tanner Richard is a 3rd round pick who just scored 54 points in 71 games in the AHL. He could easily have seen a call up last season, and is probably in a good position to see one this upcoming season.

Timo Meier is a #9 overall pick. Could easily see some action in the big league this season too.

Martin Reway might already be a top 6 or top 9 NHL forward. The speed, skill, vision and offensive know-how is there. Sure, it's boom or bust with him. But at the very least he should make his NHL debute this season.

Switzerland can fill an entire blueline even without Siegenthaler. And they have Rafael Diaz, who played many NHL games, in Europe. Slovakia also have Andrej Meszaros at home. Ok, not the sexiest names, but neither are guys like Ehrhoff or Seidenberg playing for "Team Europe".

 

[Jablkon]

A series of 5-7 between Team Europe vs Team NA like the Ryder Cup would be awesome. Of course the purists will scream to the high heavens about tradition but what can you do, some people are just stuck in their ways. The level of hockey would likely be the best we've ever seen and the games would be very intense.

The Ryder Cup started as a nation vs nation competition and evolved into what it is today precisely because one nation was much stronger than the other and it wasn't competitive. There are some obvious parallels here to Canada in hockey for those with eyes open. If they do decide to try this, I think the result could be so awesome that it becomes clear that this is the way to go. Maybe in 50 years it will be an ingrained tradition like, well like the Ryder Cup is today. The purists will still have the WHC, everybody should be happy.

Nice how you twist you arguments to the point that people who dont accept any NHL ideas are purist or even old- schoolers should I say? Interesting that these purists didnt oppose cancel of the red line or 3 on 3 OT. How that come?

AS to traditions. I very doubt this happens but for sure I can not deny you might be true. But I better stay on facts and look bit back. It has been already 40 years from first Canada Cup. And look what kind of nice tradition we have here....Regulary held int. tourney which is well accepted by fans across the world? Sure its great to inspire yourself in individual sport like golf....

 

[Hemsky001]

Proof that Slovakia and Switzerland could have iced almost full rosters consisting of players from the NHL PA.

Marian Hossa (CHI)
Marian Gaborik (LAK)
Tomas Tatar (DET)
Marko Dano (WIN)
Richard Panik (CHI)
Tomas Jurco (DET)
Marek Hrivik (NYR)
Martin Reway (MTL)
Peter Cehlarik (BOS)

Zdeno Chara (BOS)
Andrej Sekera (EDM)
Martin Marincin (TOR)
Erik Cernak (LAK)

Jaroslav Halak (NYI)
Peter Budaj (LAK)

Come on, Hrivik, Cehlarik and Cernak? That would get pretty ugly for Slovaks.

 

[Elvs]

Come on, Hrivik, Cehlarik and Cernak? That would get pretty ugly for Slovaks.

That's besides the point. I already explained it in post 63. Of course Cernak wouldn't make the team. As for Hrivik, Rangers fans were quite happy with him last season and the club also re-signed him. He could make their team in a more permanent role this season, even if it's just as a 4th line grinder.

 

[BruinDust]

Proof that Slovakia and Switzerland could have iced almost full rosters consisting of players from the NHL PA.

Marian Hossa (CHI)
Marian Gaborik (LAK)
Tomas Tatar (DET)
Marko Dano (WIN)
Richard Panik (CHI)
Tomas Jurco (DET)
Marek Hrivik (NYR)
Martin Reway (MTL)
Peter Cehlarik (BOS)

Zdeno Chara (BOS)
Andrej Sekera (EDM)
Martin Marincin (TOR)
Erik Cernak (LAK)

Jaroslav Halak (NYI)
Peter Budaj (LAK)

---

Nino Niederreiter (MIN)
Sven Baertschi (VAN)
Sven Andrighetto (MTL)
Kevin Fiala (NSH)
Tanner Richard (TBL)
Joel Vermin (TBL)
Christoph Bertschy (MIN)
Timo Meier (SJS)
Denis Malgin (FLA)

Roman Josi (NSH)
Mark Streit (PHI)
Luca Sbisa (VAN)
Yannick Weber (NSH)
Mirco Muller (SJS)
Dean Kukan (CBJ)
Jonas Siegenthaler (WAS)

Reto Berra (FLA)

---

Fill the holes with European league players, some who are even better than many names listed above. These two nations would be just as good as the Gimmic Euro team, and they'd defenitely put up a fight with the Czechs. And on a good day, they could threat the better nations too.

These two teams are chock-full of prospects and AHL fodder. They would get slaughtered by even the Czechs.

Are even half these guys NHLPA members? Considering they never, you know, played a game in the NHL.

 

[Elvs]

These two teams are chock-full of prospects and AHL fodder. They would get slaughtered by even the Czechs.

Are even half these guys NHLPA members? Considering they never, you know, played a game in the NHL.

Most of tham have played in the NHL. Read post 64.

Both teams have upset the big 6 plenty of times before with equal or worse teams. And they wouldn't be slaughtered by the Czechs. Both Slovakia and Switzerland could even ice a better defence than the Czechs currently has. Switzerland wouldn't even be far behind Finland or Russia on that position.

 

[BruinDust]

Actually, let's break it down.

Marian Hossa (CHI)
Marian Gaborik (LAK)
Tomas Tatar (DET)
Marko Dano (WIN)
Richard Panik (CHI)
Tomas Jurco (DET)
Marek Hrivik (NYR)
Martin Reway (MTL)
Peter Cehlarik (BOS)

Zdeno Chara (BOS)
Andrej Sekera (EDM)
Martin Marincin (TOR)
Erik Cernak (LAK)

Jaroslav Halak (NYI)
Peter Budaj (LAK)

---

Nino Niederreiter (MIN)
Sven Baertschi (VAN)
Sven Andrighetto (MTL)
Kevin Fiala (NSH)
Tanner Richard (TBL)
Joel Vermin (TBL)
Christoph Bertschy (MIN)
Timo Meier (SJS)
Denis Malgin (FLA)

Roman Josi (NSH)
Mark Streit (PHI)
Luca Sbisa (VAN)
Yannick Weber (NSH)
Mirco Muller (SJS)
Dean Kukan (CBJ)
Jonas Siegenthaler (WAS)

Reto Berra (FLA)

---

Bolded players have played in the NHL. That's quite many.

Tanner Richard is a 3rd round pick who just scored 54 points in 71 games in the AHL. He could easily have seen a call up last season, and is probably in a good position to see one this upcoming season.

Timo Meier is a #9 overall pick. Could easily see some action in the big league this season too.

Martin Reway might already be a top 6 or top 9 NHL forward. The speed, skill, vision and offensive know-how is there. Sure, it's boom or bust with him. But at the very least he should make his NHL debute this season.

Switzerland can fill an entire blueline even without Siegenthaler. And they have Rafael Diaz, who played many NHL games, in Europe. Slovakia also have Andrej Meszaros at home. Ok, not the sexiest names, but neither are guys like Ehrhoff or Seidenberg playing for "Team Europe".

From your list, players who actually spent the entire 2015-16 season in the NHL (meaning no AHL time). I tossed Hillier in there for good measure (he fits the no AHL in 2015-16 critieria.

Slovakia - Hossa, Gaborik, Tatar, Chara, Sekara, Marincin, Halak

Swiss - Niedereitter, Baertschi, Josi, Streit, Sbisa, Weber, Hillier

So essentially you can build two teams where 1/3 of your 18 skaters are full-time NHL players, and a back-up level goaltender.

I don't care about the rest of the names you mention because none of them are established NHL players.

Those teams would both get smoked worse than the Combine Euro team. Easily.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nice how you twist you arguments to the point that people who dont accept any NHL ideas are purist or even old- schoolers should I say? Interesting that these purists didnt oppose cancel of the red line or 3 on 3 OT. How that come?

AS to traditions. I very doubt this happens but for sure I can not deny you might be true. But I better stay on facts and look bit back. It has been already 40 years from first Canada Cup. And look what kind of nice tradition we have here....Regulary held int. tourney which is well accepted by fans across the world? Sure its great to inspire yourself in individual sport like golf....

I'm not "twisting" an argument, I'm making a suggestion.

How do you know what purists had to say about the red line or 3 on 3 - are you sure they all felt the same way about these things?

I wouldn't call the Canada Cup a regularly held tradition as there's been quite a large gap since the last one.

BTW - I'm a bit of a purist myself. I like to think I'm not extreme in my views though and have an open mind.

I loved the old Canada Cups as much as any hockey I've ever seen but the more I think about it, the more I realize that we are far from those glory days today and I see nothing in the foreseeable future that could match the excitement of those tournaments. The Soviet Union is no more which is obviously a good thing but in hockey terms, the collapse of the Soviet hockey program also means that Canada doesn't have a worthy opponent any more. Instead of Canada/CCCP being roughly co-favorites in any tournament and some others being long shots, we now have Canada having a roughly 50/50 shot at winning tournaments with the rest of the world put together also having a 50/50 shot. That's why I think that NA vs Europe might be a superior format as it might be better hockey, more competitive hockey, more drama and more entertainment for the fans. And all nations who have players taking part have a legit shot at winning. They'd have to share the victory with other nations of course but maybe that's preferable to having little or no chance at all like Slovenia, Switzerland etc. Yes the Ryder Cup is a team sport, that's no reason to dismiss or discredit this idea. Consider that before the Ryder Cup people were probably scoffing at the idea saying - are you nuts, this has never been done before etc., if people had been unwilling to try something new then the Ryder Cup would never have happened.

 

[Elvs]

From your list, players who actually spent the entire 2015-16 season in the NHL (meaning no AHL time). I tossed Hillier in there for good measure (he fits the no AHL in 2015-16 critieria.

Slovakia - Hossa, Gaborik, Tatar, Chara, Sekara, Marincin, Halak

Swiss - Niedereitter, Baertschi, Josi, Streit, Sbisa, Weber, Hillier

So essentially you can build two teams where 1/3 of your 18 skaters are full-time NHL players, and a back-up level goaltender.

I don't care about the rest of the names you mention because none of them are established NHL players.

Those teams would both get smoked worse than the Combine Euro team. Easily.

You and many other North Americans live in a fantasy world where ice hockey is played on paper and not on the ice. And in your pretend world the worst players in the NHL >>>>>> the best players in Europe. Why do even play the game if results don't matter? Just hand the World Cup to Canada. They are the best team on paper easily and they deserve to win, right?

Or, we could look at results. Here's everytime Slovakia and Switzerland have challenged, and sometimes won, against the big six nations:

Slovakia-Russia 0-1 SO (2014 Olympics)
Slovakia-Czech Republic 1-3 (2010 Olympics)
Slovakia-Russia 2-1 SO (2010 Olympics)
Slovakia-Sweden 4-3 (2010 Olympics)
Slovakia-Russia 1-3 (2010 WC)
Slovakia-Russia 3-4 (2011 WC)
Slovakia-Canada 2-3 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Finland 0-1 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-USA 4-2 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Canada 4-3 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Czech Republic 3-1 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Finland 0-2 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-Russia 1-3 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-USA 4-1 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-Finland 3-4 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-Czech Republic 2-3 OT (2014 WC)
Slovakia-Sweden 1-3 (2014 WC)
Slovakia-USA 3-2 OT (2015 WC)

---

Switzerland-Sweden 0-1 (2014 Olympics)
Switzerland-Czech Republic 1-0 (2014 Olympics)
Switzerland-USA 1-3 (2010 Olympics)
Switzerland-Canada 2-3 SO (2010 Olympics)
Switzerland-USA 0-2 (2010 Olympics)
Switzerland-Canada 4-1 (2010 WC)
Switzerland-Canada 3-4 OT (2011 WC)
Switzerland-Canada 2-3 (2012 WC)
Switzerland-Sweden 3-2 (2013 WC)
Switzerland-Canada 3-2 SO (2013 WC)
Switzerland-Czech Republic 5-2 (2013 WC)
Switzerland-USA 2-3 (2014 WC)
Switzerland-Finland 2-3 SO (2014 WC)

---

Red = wins
Blue = OT/SO losses

All that "getting slaughtered" and "getting smoked". I mean, unlike the much superior Team Europe falling behind 1-5 after 20 minutes of an exhibition game.

Yeah they likely couldn't sustain a high level of play through an entire tournament and win World Cup finals in a best of 3. But in any singular game they could defenitely surprise, even if it means being ultra defensive and wait for brekaways and odd man rushes.

 

[MessierII]

From your list, players who actually spent the entire 2015-16 season in the NHL (meaning no AHL time). I tossed Hillier in there for good measure (he fits the no AHL in 2015-16 critieria.

Slovakia - Hossa, Gaborik, Tatar, Chara, Sekara, Marincin, Halak

Swiss - Niedereitter, Baertschi, Josi, Streit, Sbisa, Weber, Hillier

So essentially you can build two teams where 1/3 of your 18 skaters are full-time NHL players, and a back-up level goaltender.

I don't care about the rest of the names you mention because none of them are established NHL players.

Those teams would both get smoked worse than the Combine Euro team. Easily.

Yet Switzerland beat the Canadian Olympic team with an even worse team than that. Slovakia also finished 4th in the 2010 Olympics with a similar team.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You and many other North Americans live in a fantasy world where ice hockey is played on paper and not on the ice. And in your pretend world the worst players in the NHL >>>>>> the best players in Europe. Why do even play the game if results don't matter? Just hand the World Cup to Canada. They are the best team on paper easily and they deserve to win, right?

Or, we could look at results. Here's everytime Slovakia and Switzerland have challenged, and sometimes won, against the big six nations:

Slovakia-Russia 0-1 SO (2014 Olympics)
Slovakia-Czech Republic 1-3 (2010 Olympics)
Slovakia-Russia 2-1 SO (2010 Olympics)
Slovakia-Sweden 4-3 (2010 Olympics)
Slovakia-Russia 1-3 (2010 WC)
Slovakia-Russia 3-4 (2011 WC)
Slovakia-Canada 2-3 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Finland 0-1 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-USA 4-2 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Canada 4-3 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Czech Republic 3-1 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Finland 0-2 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-Russia 1-3 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-USA 4-1 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-Finland 3-4 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-Czech Republic 2-3 OT (2014 WC)
Slovakia-Sweden 1-3 (2014 WC)
Slovakia-USA 3-2 OT (2015 WC)

---

Switzerland-Sweden 0-1 (2014 Olympics)
Switzerland-Czech Republic 1-0 (2014 Olympics)
Switzerland-USA 1-3 (2010 Olympics)
Switzerland-Canada 2-3 SO (2010 Olympics)
Switzerland-USA 0-2 (2010 Olympics)
Switzerland-Canada 4-1 (2010 WC)
Switzerland-Canada 3-4 OT (2011 WC)
Switzerland-Canada 2-3 (2012 WC)
Switzerland-Sweden 3-2 (2013 WC)
Switzerland-Canada 3-2 SO (2013 WC)
Switzerland-Czech Republic 5-2 (2013 WC)
Switzerland-USA 2-3 (2014 WC)
Switzerland-Finland 2-3 SO (2014 WC)

---

Red = wins
Blue = OT/SO losses

All that "getting slaughtered" and "getting smoked". I mean, unlike the much superior Team Europe falling behind 1-5 after 20 minutes of an exhibition game.

Yeah they likely couldn't sustain a high level of play through an entire tournament and win World Cup finals in a best of 3. But in any singular game they could defenitely surprise, even if it means being ultra defensive and wait for brekaways and odd man rushes.

This is not an appealing thought. Not saying you're wrong, just that hardly anyone would want to watch those games except citizens of the nation trying desperately to win as an underdog by sucking the life out of the game.

Yes results matter but so does the hockey being played (at least to me). And if the games are incredibly boring then I don't see that much point in playing them and I'd be fine with giving Canada the World Cup and not playing as you suggested or more sensibly, just forget the whole thing.

 

[BruinDust]

You and many other North Americans live in a fantasy world where ice hockey is played on paper and not on the ice. And in your pretend world the worst players in the NHL >>>>>> the best players in Europe. Why do even play the game if results don't matter? Just hand the World Cup to Canada. They are the best team on paper easily and they deserve to win, right?

Or, we could look at results. Here's everytime Slovakia and Switzerland have challenged, and sometimes won, against the big six nations:

Slovakia-Russia 0-1 SO (2014 Olympics)
Slovakia-Czech Republic 1-3 (2010 Olympics)
Slovakia-Russia 2-1 SO (2010 Olympics)
Slovakia-Sweden 4-3 (2010 Olympics)
Slovakia-Russia 1-3 (2010 WC)
Slovakia-Russia 3-4 (2011 WC)
Slovakia-Canada 2-3 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Finland 0-1 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-USA 4-2 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Canada 4-3 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Czech Republic 3-1 (2012 WC)
Slovakia-Finland 0-2 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-Russia 1-3 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-USA 4-1 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-Finland 3-4 (2013 WC)
Slovakia-Czech Republic 2-3 OT (2014 WC)
Slovakia-Sweden 1-3 (2014 WC)
Slovakia-USA 3-2 OT (2015 WC)

---

Switzerland-Sweden 0-1 (2014 Olympics)
Switzerland-Czech Republic 1-0 (2014 Olympics)
Switzerland-USA 1-3 (2010 Olympics)
Switzerland-Canada 2-3 SO (2010 Olympics)
Switzerland-USA 0-2 (2010 Olympics)
Switzerland-Canada 4-1 (2010 WC)
Switzerland-Canada 3-4 OT (2011 WC)
Switzerland-Canada 2-3 (2012 WC)
Switzerland-Sweden 3-2 (2013 WC)
Switzerland-Canada 3-2 SO (2013 WC)
Switzerland-Czech Republic 5-2 (2013 WC)
Switzerland-USA 2-3 (2014 WC)
Switzerland-Finland 2-3 SO (2014 WC)

---

Red = wins
Blue = OT/SO losses

All that "getting slaughtered" and "getting smoked". I mean, unlike the much superior Team Europe falling behind 1-5 after 20 minutes of an exhibition game.

Yeah they likely couldn't sustain a high level of play through an entire tournament and win World Cup finals in a best of 3. But in any singular game they could defenitely surprise, even if it means being ultra defensive and wait for brekaways and odd man rushes.

Sure, they could win a game, maybe two. And I shouldn't of said "smoked". They could keep a game here or there close.

And I don't believe hockey is played on paper, but let's be honest, there is a fairly big separation between full-time regular established NHL guys and the AHL talent you have listed. Don't just list out partial teams with 2/3 of the guys not full-time NHLers and imply they could win the whole thing.

But they have zero chance of winning this tournament, or even a tournament where you have a single-elimination quarters/semis/finals. Maybe they can get hot and get to the semis, but that's about it.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Sport IS about winning first and foremost. NOT entertainment for its own sake. Why would they even count goals otherwise?
Players seem to be happy about being Olympic champions, Stanley Cup champions, World champions, etc etc and their fans too.
I have never seen or heard anyone be ecstatic about their team being the most entertaining but losing: "hey, we didn't get to the playoffs, but dekes like xyz does or perfect shots like abc does or hits like hjk does are the most entertaining in the whole league! I don't need a Cup, I couldn't be happier!!!"... Said no one ever.

If entertainment irregardless of result is #1 for you personally, then I would say that sports aren't for you, there's plenty of other non-competitive stuff like movies, shows, theater, TV, books etc etc... Or if you itch for something closer to sport, there's stuff like Stars on Ice or the Harlem Globetrotters or the NHL's All Star Game, etc etc.

I care about seeing teams who 1) are of the same type (clubs vs clubs OR nations vs nations), thus ensuring a level playing field... and... 2) EARNED their place on the back of their RESULTS (either directly, as in qualifications, or via results generating a ranking system). I couldn't care less who that team(s) is(are). As long as they got their results, then they fully deserve it.
On the other hand, if a tournament becomes invitational, it instantly loses ALL credibility.

Nobody ruined hockey. Hockey is alive and well world wide, it's one of the major sports. You are on a site dedicated to it, it's not a site devoted to extinct sports.
The "height of hockey" is who wins the most important tournament (as it currently is, that would be the Olympics), irregardless of who that is or if they employ a defensive system or not. That is until someone will introduce style points as modifier to the final score. Something that I bet you would love and something that I think would be a farce. To each his own.

Good rant. I agree with you though. Winning is the whole point, but there are plenty of people that complain that the NHL is boring because it's not entertaining enough. The mid 90's aren't called the start of the Dead Puck era for nothing. Too many teams, watered down product, too many coaches, too many players playing like robots, etc, etc.

Personally, I guess I haven't really been emotionally attached to the international tournaments. I'll watch, because it's a great stage, but I'm not "USA!, USA!" or anything. They're not handing out a gold medal for this tournament, so it's not the same as the usual international tournament. It is what it is. Maybe that's a sham to some people, and maybe it's just a simple pre-season tournament to others. They tried to get as many NHL players as possible, and still have an international feel to it. People accept it for that, or they don't. Either way is ok.