WC: Team CZE - 2019

[Czechboy]

I have been usually standing up for the Euro goalies. You see the stats and you are usually impressed - Francouz, Salak, Stepanek, Kovar, they all at least at some points of their carrer had amazing stats in KHL.
However, I'm starting to be more convinced about your point. The euro goalies were almost never our strenght on the tourney. Maybe you could make some case for Furch who was pretty stellar thorugh the WHC in 2016 but that's it from last decade. They were never awful (Salak maybe was) but never were the ones to steal games, not to mention play-off games. I know we always say that we don't have a problem with goaltenders, that we have a lot of solid ones. Yes, we do but the problem is they are just solid ones. Hasek was whole different level but none of them is even Vokoun-like.
The reality is though that today we don't have any clear number 1 goalie in the NHL (I think Mrazek and Rittich are still not established) and we usually must rely on the Euro guys. The problem also is that we fans and our coaches and people from association making it sometimes seem like they are superstars. They're not, they are just good.
No Vasilevski, no Rinne, no Rask, no Bobrovski, no Holtby, no Price etc.. no long-established top goalie for us... and it's been a while, Vokoun was the last one. We have always needed a top class goaltending for big wins and with this worse era of our hockey you need it twice as much...

I had a theory last year... it was something like this:

10 out of 10 goalies - proven to be elite for long stretches of time: Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, Lundqvist, Rinne
9 out of 10 goalies - All Star NHL goalies - Price, Rask, Holtby, Bobrovsky
8 our of 10 goalies - Solid NHL goalies - Grubauer, Vokoun, Murray
7 out of 10 goalies - NHL regular or up and coming backup - Saros, Halak,
6 our of 10 goalies - NHL backup or Euro Star: Koskinen, Francouz, Mrazek, Neuvirth, Bartosak

I typed this up quick so I apologize if my rankings are a bit off... my point being that we have a lot of 6 out of 10 goalies right now. Canada can win with guys like this, we can't. The difference between a Rittich-Francouz-Bartosak-Mrazek is pretty marginal in the end. None of them are an 8 or 9 and now the Germans have an 8, the Danes have an 8, Swiss had several 8's but currently don't.

I do think Mrazek will sign a nice contract and be the starter. Just don't know where and if he'll keep it. I hope Carolina (who have great D). I think Rittich will also be starter in Calgary as Smith as UFA but I have no idea what will happen. I think Francouz gets 30 NHL games to establish himself and I think he will. I've also got Korenar, Vlader and Vanecek in the AHL pipeline inching very close to backup spots. Then their is Dostal and Skarek in Finland. It's a great pipeline but, currently, no one better than a 6.

I remember a lot of those Euro Goalies starting over Pavelec back in the day and they'd get decimated! I think Salak and Kovar both started major tournaments but allowed about 5 goals before getting yanked. Stepanek had beautiful teams in front of him (and an NHL goalie on the bench) and definitely cost us a few wins due to Hadamczak and his gut. I'll never forgive Hadamczak for entering the Olympics with Hasek, Vokoun and a legendary (but near done with his career) Hniclicka and starting Hnilicka over Vokoun in Semi agaisnt Swedes. I think we lost 6-1. Vokoun won us the bronze (and a gold at worlds later). It was a beyond stupid move that has been repeated almost exclusively since the 2006 Olympics. Maybe Mrazek wouldn't have been better than Francouz 2 years ago but he's clearly a more established NHL goalie. Mabye Rittich wouldn't have done better than Francouz but he definitely went on to a much better NHL season too! Maybe Francouz wouldn't have done better than Bartosak but 2 big saves would've done a long way into keep that game close.

I think, in the last decade (30 medals) only about 4 Euro goalies have a medal - The Finn this year, the swiss goalie last year and Koskinen (he might have 2).

I can guarantee you if I look at top scorers and goalies of the last decade you won't find an extraliga guy anywhere unless you count Kovar who only end up in Extraliga due to not making NHL (he's an amazing 3C... I wish he'd stuck and his numbers were good in AHL).

Another one would be to improve the extraliga as the teams there don't seem very modern either. They also seem to love to bench 18 year olds and let them watch games. It's very backwards from the NHL who uses those young plaers on their 3 year cheap contracts to the fullest.

 

[Czechboy]

I am predicting we gonna loose it because czech fans booed russian anthem in group stage so karma will work. Thats think I can not get over.

Imo Francouz in net and then whoever

Did we seriously boo an anthem? That's awful!

 

[Jablkon]

Did we seriously boo an anthem? That's awful!

I guess so. I didnt really watch it closely but it looked like lot of people were booing. I Never seen smth like this since I have been following collective sports, except slovaks against Canada.

 

[Czechboy]

I guess so. I didnt really watch it closely but it looked like lot of people were booing. I Never seen smth like this since I have been following collective sports, except slovaks against Canada.

They only show anthem on TSN if it's Canada.lol I can't even say the Russian's did anything wrong in our game. They just kind of outplayed us.

 

[Jablkon]

They only show anthem on TSN if it's Canada.lol I can't even say the Russian's did anything wrong in our game. They just kind of outplayed us.

It looked more like political gesture. Well it looked like clear redneckism

 

[joey16]

I had a theory last year... it was something like this:

10 out of 10 goalies - proven to be elite for long stretches of time: Hasek, Roy, Brodeur, Lundqvist, Rinne
9 out of 10 goalies - All Star NHL goalies - Price, Rask, Holtby, Bobrovsky
8 our of 10 goalies - Solid NHL goalies - Grubauer, Vokoun, Murray
7 out of 10 goalies - NHL regular or up and coming backup - Saros, Halak,
6 our of 10 goalies - NHL backup or Euro Star: Koskinen, Francouz, Mrazek, Neuvirth, Bartosak

I typed this up quick so I apologize if my rankings are a bit off... my point being that we have a lot of 6 out of 10 goalies right now. Canada can win with guys like this, we can't. The difference between a Rittich-Francouz-Bartosak-Mrazek is pretty marginal in the end. None of them are an 8 or 9 and now the Germans have an 8, the Danes have an 8, Swiss had several 8's but currently don't.

I do think Mrazek will sign a nice contract and be the starter. Just don't know where and if he'll keep it. I hope Carolina (who have great D). I think Rittich will also be starter in Calgary as Smith as UFA but I have no idea what will happen. I think Francouz gets 30 NHL games to establish himself and I think he will. I've also got Korenar, Vlader and Vanecek in the AHL pipeline inching very close to backup spots. Then their is Dostal and Skarek in Finland. It's a great pipeline but, currently, no one better than a 6.

I remember a lot of those Euro Goalies starting over Pavelec back in the day and they'd get decimated! I think Salak and Kovar both started major tournaments but allowed about 5 goals before getting yanked. Stepanek had beautiful teams in front of him (and an NHL goalie on the bench) and definitely cost us a few wins due to Hadamczak and his gut. I'll never forgive Hadamczak for entering the Olympics with Hasek, Vokoun and a legendary (but near done with his career) Hniclicka and starting Hnilicka over Vokoun in Semi agaisnt Swedes. I think we lost 6-1. Vokoun won us the bronze (and a gold at worlds later). It was a beyond stupid move that has been repeated almost exclusively since the 2006 Olympics. Maybe Mrazek wouldn't have been better than Francouz 2 years ago but he's clearly a more established NHL goalie. Mabye Rittich wouldn't have done better than Francouz but he definitely went on to a much better NHL season too! Maybe Francouz wouldn't have done better than Bartosak but 2 big saves would've done a long way into keep that game close.

I think, in the last decade (30 medals) only about 4 Euro goalies have a medal - The Finn this year, the swiss goalie last year and Koskinen (he might have 2).

I can guarantee you if I look at top scorers and goalies of the last decade you won't find an extraliga guy anywhere unless you count Kovar who only end up in Extraliga due to not making NHL (he's an amazing 3C... I wish he'd stuck and his numbers were good in AHL).

Another one would be to improve the extraliga as the teams there don't seem very modern either. They also seem to love to bench 18 year olds and let them watch games. It's very backwards from the NHL who uses those young plaers on their 3 year cheap contracts to the fullest.

Just from top of my head now, in 2011 there were Petri Vehanen and Viktor Fasth (euro goalies) in the final against each other but I do understand your point. By your rating, right now we just don't have any 8 or more. And that's something which holding us back in the Worlds maybe just as much as the lack of quality defensemen. You know, I wonder if there in 2005 or 2010 was no Vokoun but some goalie of Bartosak/Francouz/Kovar quality how would that ended up.

 

[czechmate]

Excerpt from the post-match interview with our head coach:

Tušíte, proč má český hokej v semifinále problém střílet góly?
„Český hokej má problémy úplně někde jinde. Kde, to si nechám pro sebe.“



Obviously the issue must by something systemic (maybe mindset?) as he is quite reluctant to talk about it. However I think it would be helpful for Czech hockey future if we knew. There are certain issues that are only visible from the inside after all.

 

[Czechboy]

This is fantastic! Bold is the interviewer. Non bold is Riha.

Proč jste do utkání nenasadil Chytila a Skleničku, kteří působí v zámoří?
Protože jsme se tak rozhodli.
Co vás k tomu vedlo?
Vrána přijel trošku s komplikacemi. Odehrál parádní dva zápasy, pak šel hodně dolů. Jestli to bylo kondicí, nebo čím... V každém zápase potřebujete nejen hráče do koncovky, který si počká na červené čáře, ale i bojovníky. Sklenička nám v obraně trošku propadal, místy měl problémy v situacích jeden na jednoho. Ale to je normální. Já nevím, proč hledáme, jestli hrál Vrána. Proč se už tři dny bavíme o Vránovi.
O něm nepadlo ani slovo.

The beauty part is that the interviewer asked about Chytil and Sklenicka who both play in North America. Riha, somehow, used this as an opportunity to smash Vrana (he got much worse, just sits at red line, doesn't fight) and insult Skelenicka (can't handle 1 on 1's). Then got he got pissed because they keep asking him about Vrana even though no one even mentioned Vrana.lmao He never did answer the Chytil question! I think, to Riha, he loves fighters/bojovnik's and isn't sure what to do with skill guys. This interview kind of confirms that to me.lol

Říha: Koncovka? Český hokej má problém jinde. S Rusy to bude jako o zlato | Hokej.cz - web českého hokeje

 

[Czechboy]

Excerpt from the post-match interview with our head coach:

Tušíte, proč má český hokej v semifinále problém střílet góly?
„Český hokej má problémy úplně někde jinde. Kde, to si nechám pro sebe.“



Obviously the issue must by something systemic (maybe mindset?) as he is quite reluctant to talk about it. However I think it would be helpful for Czech hockey future if we knew. There are certain issues that are only visible from the inside after all.

LOL.. I picked a different part of the same interview.

 

[Swipes]

This will sound stupid but if we were meeting for Russia for Gold, I had my money on them. In the Bronze game, I like our chances. I still remember Plekanec scoring that empty netter in 2011!

If Vrana isn't our best pure shooter.. then who is? I know we haven't had pure shooters in a long time but you'd thing that would be a welcome problem to have? Pastrnak and Hertl will score more goals and are legit first liners but they are not pure shooters. Vrana is a modern player that confuses the hell our of Reichel and Riha.

Bartosak was weak unfortunately. I liked him in tourney and think he deserves one of those 3 players of tourney awards.

Putting on Vrana after we are down against a Canadian team is very self serving. Now he can point out it didn't work and Tomas Zohorna scored and Vrana didn't. The even stupider move was dedicating our first period to Milan Gulas.

Can't score in big games or powerplays and thought the solution was in the Extraliga.lol I cant' stress enough to Kovar is of KHL quality and Kubalik is in NHL next season. This all Plsen thing is ridiculous.lol

Who would you start tomorrow?

I really want Gulas and H. Zohorna benched. Chytil on bottom 6, Vrana in Top 6 but I have no idea who I'd put in net?

I'd start Francouz.

The lines should be as they were for the Sweden game (but keep line 1 the same).

 

[Swipes]

This is fantastic! Bold is the interviewer. Non bold is Riha.

Proč jste do utkání nenasadil Chytila a Skleničku, kteří působí v zámoří?
Protože jsme se tak rozhodli.
Co vás k tomu vedlo?
Vrána přijel trošku s komplikacemi. Odehrál parádní dva zápasy, pak šel hodně dolů. Jestli to bylo kondicí, nebo čím... V každém zápase potřebujete nejen hráče do koncovky, který si počká na červené čáře, ale i bojovníky. Sklenička nám v obraně trošku propadal, místy měl problémy v situacích jeden na jednoho. Ale to je normální. Já nevím, proč hledáme, jestli hrál Vrána. Proč se už tři dny bavíme o Vránovi.
O něm nepadlo ani slovo.

The beauty part is that the interviewer asked about Chytil and Sklenicka who both play in North America. Riha, somehow, used this as an opportunity to smash Vrana (he got much worse, just sits at red line, doesn't fight) and insult Skelenicka (can't handle 1 on 1's). Then got he got pissed because they keep asking him about Vrana even though no one even mentioned Vrana.lmao He never did answer the Chytil question! I think, to Riha, he loves fighters/bojovnik's and isn't sure what to do with skill guys. This interview kind of confirms that to me.lol

Říha: Koncovka? Český hokej má problém jinde. S Rusy to bude jako o zlato | Hokej.cz - web českého hokeje

Wow. What is up with Riha? He's getting senile lol. Seems like he can't handle criticism well. Especially if it seems like it might have been better to play Vrana after all....

 

[Swipes]

Excerpt from the post-match interview with our head coach:

Tušíte, proč má český hokej v semifinále problém střílet góly?
„Český hokej má problémy úplně někde jinde. Kde, to si nechám pro sebe.“



Obviously the issue must by something systemic (maybe mindset?) as he is quite reluctant to talk about it. However I think it would be helpful for Czech hockey future if we knew. There are certain issues that are only visible from the inside after all.

He's deluded if he thinks that not scoring goals isn't our problem

Maybe he thinks younger players have attitude problems these days and that's the problem

 

[Swipes]

This will sound stupid but if we were meeting for Russia for Gold, I had my money on them. In the Bronze game, I like our chances. I still remember Plekanec scoring that empty netter in 2011!

If Vrana isn't our best pure shooter.. then who is? I know we haven't had pure shooters in a long time but you'd thing that would be a welcome problem to have? Pastrnak and Hertl will score more goals and are legit first liners but they are not pure shooters. Vrana is a modern player that confuses the hell our of Reichel and Riha.

Bartosak was weak unfortunately. I liked him in tourney and think he deserves one of those 3 players of tourney awards.

Putting on Vrana after we are down against a Canadian team is very self serving. Now he can point out it didn't work and Tomas Zohorna scored and Vrana didn't. The even stupider move was dedicating our first period to Milan Gulas.

Can't score in big games or powerplays and thought the solution was in the Extraliga.lol I cant' stress enough to Kovar is of KHL quality and Kubalik is in NHL next season. This all Plsen thing is ridiculous.lol

Who would you start tomorrow?

I really want Gulas and H. Zohorna benched. Chytil on bottom 6, Vrana in Top 6 but I have no idea who I'd put in net?

I think Zadina could be our best pure shooter one day.

 

[Czechboy]

He's deluded if he thinks that not scoring goals isn't our problem

Maybe he thinks younger players have attitude problems these days and that's the problem

I was wondering the same . I was hoping he meant the federation and how they run things. But I think you're right... He meant millennials suck.lol

 

[Czechboy]

I think Zadina could be our best pure shooter one day.

Agreed... Also no invite.lol

 

[peterthegreat12]

Why was Vrana deployed like that? He was benched he entire first period and Jaskin was on the second line again. I’m completely puzzled by the coaching.

 

[Kesid]

Why was Vrana deployed like that? He was benched he entire first period and Jaskin was on the second line again. I’m completely puzzled by the coaching.

You dont have to be. Our coach is an old school guy. His focus is on things he can actually see - faceoffs, hustle etc.

So to answer your question - he sees the hustle from Jaskin and he trusts him more than Vrana. He buries guys he doesnt like - Sklenicka, Vrana, Chytil and in some way Francouz. The way he does it is not very kind and it can create a tension in the whole room.

Honestly Riha is lucky that NHL/AHL guys (that are mostly U30) came over and saved his ass with their play, because you would see Zatovic, Novotny, Erat, Plekanec and other 30+ guys in his team.

 

[Nexon]

Hrubec apparently starts, happy for him I must admit. I dont give us many chances I think this time with this squad it would be even bigger embarrassment for Russia if they didn’t even win medal.

 

[Czechboy]

I love how Zaruba cuts off Hubacek and informs him no team in HISTORY has rotated 3 goalies like this.lol

I couldn't decided between Francouz and Bartosak. On one hand, Francouz is our NHL goalie and lost 2 quarters and could get another crack at a medal as a good soldier.

On the other hand, Bartosak got us here and was named one of our 3 best players. He had less then 30 bad minutes in entire tourney, why not give him a crack at the medal? We're not in these games often. If Riha is the coach next year, I can assure you a lot of NHL Czechs will have 'zdravotni problems'.lmao There is no way guys like Voracek and such can be behind all these coaching changes.

 

[Czechboy]

In defence of Riha:

We are in a medal game
We are 7-2
Last year the Swiss got to the finals with a weaker squad
The Olympics saw Germany take OAR to OT
This years Finn 'C Team' is in the finals and has beaten Russia and Sweden along the way
Our 2010 C team won the whole thing while our 2011 A team won a bronze

There is a new generation of hockey players. We need to decided if we're a C team who battles hard or an A team who tries to match skill and plays a modern game.

Also, I've been hard on him but he played really hard... poor Moravcik. Sounds like a broken collarbone? I am happy to see Sklenicka to get a chance.

 

[Nexon]

Last year the Swiss got to the finals with a weaker squad
The Olympics saw Germany take OAR to OT
This years Finn 'C Team' is in the finals and has beaten Russia and Sweden along the

Those teams had something in common, something we lack in that kind of measure, play like a real team, Finland is bright example, they play like everybody knows it's exact role and also they are able to cross middle zone fairly easily when have chance. Finland and Swiss also have very quick hockey decisions, what to do even when they have very little time when they do so, we seem to do long passes across whole ice which get lost on the way against better teams.

 

[Czechboy]

Sad ending, great tournament! Voracek was a great captain. Frolik played above his paygrid. Simon really surprised. Bartosak really surprised. Hronek was amazing. Kovar is the 3C of my dreams. Kubalik was beautiful depth scoring. Musil was a pleasant surprise. Rutta kept it together. Radko was underated - things were very calm when he was on ice. Faksa would be a beautiful 3C on a best on best behind Hertl/Krejci. For all my complaints, Riha got us to the Semi's and within a shootout of a Bronze - very well done. Repik was a great secondary scorer too! In the end I think Zohorna was the best choice for 4C.

 

[joey16]

For me this is the saddest moment since 2011 semifinal loss. What a game that was.
Some things through the tourney were not entirely perfect and there were some questionable moves that I didn't agree with but in the end I have to say: Hoši děkujem! One of the best WHC from Czechs last decade.

 

[joey16]

Sad ending, great tournament! Voracek was a great captain. Frolik played above his paygrid. Simon really surprised. Bartosak really surprised. Hronek was amazing. Kovar is the 3C of my dreams. Kubalik was beautiful depth scoring. Musil was a pleasant surprise. Rutta kept it together. Radko was underated - things were very calm when he was on ice. Faksa would be a beautiful 3C on a best on best behind Hertl/Krejci. For all my complaints, Riha got us to the Semi's and within a shootout of a Bronze - very well done. Repik was a great secondary scorer too! In the end I think Zohorna was the best choice for 4C.

Also, props to you for making czech threads here during the WHC so energetic. Wouldn't be the same without you. Like without Zaruba in TV..

 

[Czechboy]

Also, props to you for making czech threads here during the WHC so energetic. Wouldn't be the same without you. Like without Zaruba in TV..

I'm pretty sure a few guys couldn't stand me but, living in Canada, I never get to talk Czech hockey! Czech Facebook is not very good for hockey talk and I get picked on cause I'm 'not Czech' despite being born there. Go figure, my own people pick on me.lol

I find the Canucks I know personally only follow world Jrs and best on best and know very little about international hockey. It's usually leafs rule and 'we didn't have McDavid'.lmao They also keep telling me that no one watches this tournament despite it being a massive sellout every year! Just like the World Jrs sell out here but probably won't in Czech this year.

On a random note... U18's are in Detroit this year, 2 hours from my house across border. I will be going to them to see our team play a few games. If they get into Semi's I'll definitely be heading down for weekend to cheer! Mysak and Pytlik could be first round potential!