Team better off without Kovalchuk?

[NJDevs26]

lol this is why I can't take Jim seriously. Winnipeg was only close to making the playoffs last year cause they were in a bad division. They didn't do any better than any of the Kovalchuk Atlanta teams.

 

[JimEIV]

Of course there's a reason for that, and it's not Kovalchuk. Aren't you the one routinely chiding the "potential" of those bottom-feeding teams that always seem to make some late, futile push as soon as the games mean nothing?

Besides, Winnipeg finished only 3 points ahead of one of the worst shooting teams in the league, and gave up the fourth most goals in the process. If that's "far better shape" then I'm not sure why I care who or what you think is good or bad in the first place.

My point is having the "Super Star" player by himself has made no difference to the Atlanta /Winnipeg or New Jersey franchises ...the question of this thread is are we better or worse? Atlanta was not worse and Winnipeg is probably in better shape today than Atlanta has been at any point in the last 5 years....draw your own conclusions but that guy was simply not the impact player many believe or wished he was.

 

[apice3*]

Ewing Theory

 

[Bleedred]

lol this is why I can't take Jim seriously. Winnipeg was only close to making the playoffs last year cause they were in a bad division. They didn't do any better than any of the Kovalchuk Atlanta teams.

IMO they don't even sniff the bubble in an 82 game season last year. Hell, if they didn't dominate us the way they did (5 out of a possible 6 points) then they probably finish below us, even in the 48 game season. Their domination of us alone might have been the difference between them finishing in 9th and 12th. Those were some of the worst games of the season. I'm glad we have that trip early this year. 2 of the 3 games up there have been total abominations.

 

[JimEIV]

lol this is why I can't take Jim seriously. Winnipeg was only close to making the playoffs last year cause they were in a bad division. They didn't do any better than any of the Kovalchuk Atlanta teams.

They didn't do any worse either ...and the Thrashers the following year didn't do any worse either...they won 35 games in his last full year...35 games in a half year without him and 34 games in a full year without him ....where is the impact? 37 wins last year for Winnipeg is more than Atlanta has had in 5 years and 24 wins in 48 games just as good....

 

[JimEIV]

Show me the loss the Atalanta/Winnipeg franchise suffered from losing Kovalchuk ....there wasn't any. In fact,they have a better win percentage today than at any point since prior to 2007.

 

[NJDevs26]

They didn't do any worse either ...and the Thrashers the following year didn't do any worse either...they won 35 games in his last full year...35 games in a half year without him and 34 games in a full year without him ....where is the impact? 37 wins last year for Winnipeg is more than Atlanta has had in 5 years and 24 wins in 48 games just as good....

Now you're changing your argument. First it was they got better and are in better shape now, next it's well they were bad then and bad now so what's the difference? You can't say someone had negative impact and no impact at the same time. By the latter standard it's pretty much impossible for the Jets to be worse than the Atlanta tenure, but hey let's ignore the fact they had a joke of a GM for ten years and finally put Waddell out to pasture only after the Russian merc was traded.

 

[JimEIV]

Can we just forget it with the Kovalchuk stuff? He has been a loser his entire time in the league ....he was Viktor Kozlov with flair. Stop trying to convince yourself this was a good player because he wasn't. He was a Harlem globe trotter...fun show to watch but nothing resembling a player.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

This is fun to read.

 

[JimEIV]

Now you're changing your argument. First it was they got better and are in better shape now, next it's well they were bad then and bad now so what's the difference? You can't say someone had negative impact and no impact at the same time. By the latter standard it's pretty much impossible for the Jets to be worse than the Atlanta tenure, but hey let's ignore the fact they had a joke of a GM for ten years and finally put Waddell out to pasture only after the Russian merc was traded.

I never changed my argument? They didn't get worse after losing Kovalchuk and Winnipeg is better today than Atlanta has been at any point of the last 5 years.. that is all I said ..

Ahhh I get it now...it was the joke of a GM that made him and his team suck ..clearly.

No mention that he had Slava Kozlov, Heatley and Hossa and was still a joke...please...

How many excuses do you have for this loser?

 

[JimEIV]

And on paper, Heatley,Kovalchuk, Hossa is better than any forward group New Jersey has ever had in their history and somehow that couldn't even translate into 1 playoff series win....musta been the GM?

 

[frozenrubber]

And on paper, Heatley,Kovalchuk, Hossa is better than any forward group New Jersey has ever had in their history and somehow that couldn't even translate into 1 playoff series win....musta been the GM?

Just for clarification purposes, do you mean Heatley/Hossa and Kovalchuk? Heatley and Hossa were never on the same team, but traded for each other.

 

[NjDevsRR]

If you can say that then I will say this, Parise and Elias looked great on paper as well, but did nothing in the playoffs for years. Kovalchuk comes along and the only full year we had Elias Parise and Kovalchuk we were 2 wins from the Cup. You can spin it any way you want, someone else will just spin it any way they want like I just did. Mindless conversation is mindless.

Its a damn shame that both of them left for home, we would have had a great team for a few years.

 

[NJDevs26]

lol I guess two elite scoring forwards at the same time (not three) and one good scoring forward should overcome having no defense, no goalie, market/money issues, lousy coaches and a boob of a GM who drafted crap for a decade and traded said elite scoring forwards for squadoosh in the end. I guess Tampa Bay should have made the playoffs a lot more than they have in recent years with Lecavalier/St. Louis/Stamkos too since having two or three forwards automatically equals a good team.

I don't really give two ***** about defending the Russian merc now but your attacks have always been intentionally over-the-top and even more incorrigible now that the Russian merc left despite the fact nobody, not even you was predicting he'd bolt to Russia after three years. Let's call a spade a spade, you really think Atlanta makes the playoffs multiple years if they sub the Russian merc with your boy Parise given the same crappy organization around them?

 

[Banana Sandwiches]

Definitely not in the short term. Scoring was this team's problem last year and I don't see how losing a guy who scored a bunch of goals could help that.

Long term, losing Kovalchuk could be beneficial depending on what happens with the cap and everything.

 

[JimEIV]

2007-08 Atlanta Thrashers NHL Southeast 82 34 40 0 2 6 76 0.463 216 272 1077 15831 Hartley, Waddell **+} Out of Playoffs
2008-09 Atlanta Thrashers NHL Southeast 82 35 41 0 5 1 76 0.463 257 280 1256 14626 John Anderson Out of Playoffs
2009-10 Atlanta Thrashers NHL Southeast 82 35 34 0 7 6 83 0.506 234 256 1053 13607 John Anderson Out of Playoffs
2010-11 Atlanta Thrashers NHL Southeast 82 34 36 0 5 7 80 0.488 223 269 930 13469 Craig Ramsay Out of Playoffs


Was Atlanta better or worse the year after he left? Answer is about the same. Their win% stayed exactly the same without him compare to the previous 3 years with him. And there was actually an uptick in win percentage after he left in 2010.

Edit: and 2 of 3 years NJ more resembled those Thrasher teams in win% than we did previous NJ teams without him.
.494. .622, .500

 

[JimEIV]

So Kovalchuk's 3 years here gave us an average of a .538 win%

You would have to go back to 1995-96 to find a win% that low in any season before Kovalchuk in New Jersey. And the .494 was the lowest win% in 20 years (1990-91 they had exactly a .494)
So what did the Super Star bring us? Ticket sales perhaps?

How can the Devils be any worse without him? For the Devils to be worse you're talking about 1980's bad...because the last 3 years have been some of the worst in 25 years.

 

[StvBroDan]

So Kovalchuk's 3 years here gave us an average of a .538 win%

You would have to go back to 1995-96 to find a win% that low in any season before Kovalchuk in New Jersey. And the .494 was the lowest win% in 20 years (1990-91 they had exactly a .494)
So what did the Super Star bring us? Ticket sales perhaps?

How can the Devils be any worse without him? For the Devils to be worse you're talking about 1980's bad...because the last 3 years have been some of the worst in 25 years.

You know what would be nice is the end of this worthless thread. WE MOVE ON

 

[hockeyr5]

Our PP is gonna kick ass without Kovy. No more forcing the puck to one guy! Hooray!

 

[CKPLAYA]

QUOTE=JimEIV;69687711]Can we just forget it with the Kovalchuk stuff? He has been a loser his entire time in the league ....he was Viktor Kozlov with flair. Stop trying to convince yourself this was a good player because he wasn't. He was a Harlem globe trotter...fun show to watch but nothing resembling a player.[/QUOTE]

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

Frees up lots of space. Helps out a LOT regarding all around team building. Also less of a huge ego now as well. However we don't know until later on this season but yes I'd say the Devils are better off and especially longer term.

 

[Balance]

None of his arguments make any logical sense. What do you expect from anyone who thinks that Kovalchuk is a "negative" to a team?

 

[JimEIV]

Yes winning doesn't matter. Top shelf goals and fist pumps are far more important than a .600 win% that NJ enjoyed for decades before Kovalchuk.

That is logical.

 

[Vilgraining]

Short term, this is a huge loss for the Devils. No way, losing their top offensive talent improves the team. In a few years his money and cap space can be used to build a better "team" and not be so reliant on him. But there is no way we will be better this year or next year or probably even the year after.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Short term, this is a huge loss for the Devils. No way, losing their top offensive talent improves the team. In a few years his money and cap space can be used to build a better "team" and not be so reliant on him. But there is no way we will be better this year or next year or probably even the year after.

We are a significantly better hockey team right now than we were last year. Its not even close really.