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Proposal: TBL-PIT

Ledge And Dairy said:
Well Donato is free this summer, he probably won't cost more than 5M
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Donato is also 29 with exactly one season under his belt with more than 31 points.

If you wanna throw shit at a wall and see what sticks for 5 mil, he's an option. If you want a good bet for production, you go with Rakell and its really not close.
 
A 31 yr old winger who might hit 70 points for the first time in his career is worth two top prospects? What the actual f***?

His value is closer to what Granlund just went for than it is to that gross overpayment in the OP
 
Dipsy Doodle said:
Donato is also 29 with exactly one season under his belt with more than 31 points.

If you wanna throw shit at a wall and see what sticks for 5 mil, he's an option. If you want a good bet for production, you go with Rakell and its really not close.
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I am not arguing that. If they were both free this offseason Rakell is the obvious choice. But that's not at all the case. Tampa doesn't need help scoring, they already have 4 ppg+ players and a near ppg defenseman. Rakell wouldn't be pushing anyone off the first powerplay unit either so his production would likely take quite a dip in Tampa too. Is Rakell a good hockey play? Yes, is he worth 2 premium young assets? Not at all
 
Ledge And Dairy said:
I am not arguing that. If they were both free this offseason Rakell is the obvious choice. But that's not at all the case. Tampa doesn't need help scoring, they already have 4 ppg+ players and a near ppg defenseman. Rakell wouldn't be pushing anyone off the first powerplay unit either so his production would likely take quite a dip in Tampa too. Is Rakell a good hockey play? Yes, is he worth 2 premium young assets? Not at all
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I was pretty clear that I had no issue with people faulting the proposal based on fit.
 
JKG33 said:
A 31 yr old winger who might hit 70 points for the first time in his career is worth two top prospects? What the actual f***?

His value is closer to what Granlund just went for than it is to that gross overpayment in the OP
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Rakell is worth more than Granlund by virtue of his contract having 3 more years left at $5mil. With the cap rising, that is a VERY nice price tag to have on your top line or top 6. You cannot go out get what Rakell is brining on July 1st for less.

Realistically though, the Tampa window may only be 3-4 years. Kuch is 31, Point is 29, Jake is 30, Hedman is 34, Vasi is 30...in 4 years, they will all be old. Likely too old. In that case, Howard and Geekie ain't gonna hold off the inevitable decline and in the meantime, they certainly aren't going to provide what Rakell can provide now. Not saying he's worth BOTH but a deal around one of them plus could be had. Or a nice pick added to Rakell to get both. We have quite the assortment of picks.
 
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SEALBound said:
Rakell is worth more than Granlund by virtue of his contract having 3 more years left at $5mil. With the cap rising, that is a VERY nice price tag to have on your top line or top 6. You cannot go out get what Rakell is brining on July 1st for less.

Realistically though, the Tampa window may only be 3-4 years. Kuch is 31, Point is 29, Jake is 30, Hedman is 34, Vasi is 30...in 4 years, they will all be old. Likely too old. In that case, Howard and Geekie ain't gonna hold off the inevitable decline and in the meantime, they certainly aren't going to provide what Rakell can provide now. Not saying he's worth BOTH but a deal around one of them plus could be had. Or a nice pick added to Rakell to get both. We have quite the assortment of picks.
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Maybe im overvaluing Howard and Geekie, but I'd expect a much better player than Rakell coming back if im moving those two. When's the last time a player got dealt for two prospects of that caliber? JT Miller didnt even get that kind of return, and hes a 100 pt 1st liner signed to a great contract. Hell, add a 2nd rd pick to that package and id take it over what Carolina got from Dallas for Rantanen.

The Rakell's of the world are available every July 1. And I'd much rather have that kind of player signed for say $7-8m and keeping the two prospects. Say Brock Boeser this summer.

I dont care how good his contract is, a low end 1st liner on his best day (realistically hes a 2nd liner) at 31 yrs old doesn't get that kind of return. And the rising cap doesn't add to your argument the way you think it does, because now everyone has cap space.
 
Prospects are exactly that. who knows what they can become. Rakell is not a player that elevates TB. They have enough scoring not to get Rakell, Tampa has to come up with some overpay in an off season of limited options.
 
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Dipsy Doodle said:
A top 20 goalscorer signed at 5.5 mil per for 3 years in a league where the cap is 95 mil per team can't return a couple B prospects and a cap dump.

K thanx for ur learned input
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Top 20 goal scorer? This is the first time he's hit 30 goals in 7 years. Don't act like he's doing this consistently.

And LMAO at calling them a couple B prospects, rose tinted glasses much?
 
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Ledge And Dairy said:
Top 20 goal scorer? This is the first time he's hit 30 goals in 7 years. Don't act like he's doing this consistently.

And LMAO at calling them a couple B prospects, rose tinted glasses much?
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Fair price is probably one of the two and a late first/early 2nd. For TBL at late first.
 
Howard + Sheary, Howard is more likley to sign in Pitts with an opportunity next to Crosby/Malkin.
 
Ledge And Dairy said:
Top 20 goal scorer? This is the first time he's hit 30 goals in 7 years. Don't act like he's doing this consistently.

And LMAO at calling them a couple B prospects, rose tinted glasses much?
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Yes, Rakell is a top 20 goal scorer this year. That is a fact. He's also hit 30 goals 3 times and had 28 2 years ago. It is interesting to hear you talk about consistency's negative effect on Rakell's value though when you were just hyping up Donato as an alternative, a guy who hadn't scored more than 16 goals before this season. Make that make sense.

Geekie and Howard are 53 and 55 on Wheeler's latest ranking:


If you are seeing rankings that have them much higher, show them. I don't think you can find any.

These are good prospects, but they aren't blue chippers.
 
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Dipsy Doodle said:
Yes, Rakell is a top 20 goal scorer this year. That is a fact. He's also hit 30 goals 3 times and had 28 2 years ago. It is interesting to hear you talk about consistency's negative effect on Rakell's value though when you were just hyping up Donato as an alternative, a guy who hadn't scored more than 16 goals before this season. Make that make sense.

Geekie and Howard are 53 and 55 on Wheeler's latest ranking:


If you are seeing rankings that have them much higher, show them. I don't think you can find any.

These are good prospects, but they aren't blue chippers.
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I never called them blue chip. Blue chip prospects are guys with superstar potential, grade above A+, that's pretty much only guys in the top 5-10 ranks. Prospects hovering around the top 50 are usually A- , 2nd line upside caliber.
B prospects are guys who generally project as 3rd liners
 
Ledge And Dairy said:
I never called them blue chip. Blue chip prospects are guys with superstar potential, grade above A+, that's pretty much only guys in the top 5-10 ranks. Prospects hovering around the top 50 are usually A- , 2nd line upside caliber.
B prospects are guys who generally project as 3rd liners
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However you want to describe them, they are not projected impact players. McGroarty and Koivunen on the Pens, much as I like them, are in the same boat.
 
SEALBound said:
Rakell is worth more than Granlund by virtue of his contract having 3 more years left at $5mil. With the cap rising, that is a VERY nice price tag to have on your top line or top 6. You cannot go out get what Rakell is brining on July 1st for less.

Realistically though, the Tampa window may only be 3-4 years. Kuch is 31, Point is 29, Jake is 30, Hedman is 34, Vasi is 30...in 4 years, they will all be old. Likely too old. In that case, Howard and Geekie ain't gonna hold off the inevitable decline and in the meantime, they certainly aren't going to provide what Rakell can provide now. Not saying he's worth BOTH but a deal around one of them plus could be had. Or a nice pick added to Rakell to get both. We have quite the assortment of picks.
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Most of what you are saying is 100% true. We know what we have in Geekie and he does provides youth and energy needed for a bottom 6 contender (imo). Howard for all we know right now could come in and fit right in the top 6 and fill a need, we just don't know what we have yet.

And if that is the case, this probably should be revisited in 3- 4 years when it's our turn to go through the rebuild. Of course you'll probably be way ahead of yours and who knows, Howard and Geekie could be the pieces you need to get back in contention by then.
 
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Rakell is hands down after the Toronto' RW is the best Forward who can be had. But Dubas will not part with him for some decent prospects. He didn't have the leverage on the Guentzel deal but did what he could. He wants top end prospects for him and teams know that. Offering two nice prospects will not get it done. Dubas want real game changers here and if he does move Rakell he will get that back.
 
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Dipsy Doodle said:
However you want to describe them, they are not projected impact players. McGroarty and Koivunen on the Pens, much as I like them, are in the same boat.
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Rakell is not an "impact player" by that definition on a contender either. Good 2nd liner and PP2 guy. He's like Toffoli, can absolutely play higher in a lineup if you lack that top end talent, but on a contender he's not that. Even just a couple years ago when you acquired him he played 2nd unit PP with Rust being a near PPG that season.

chethejet said:
Rakell is hands down after the Toronto' RW is the best Forward who can be had. But Dubas will not part with him for some decent prospects. He didn't have the leverage ion the Guentzel deal but did what he could. He wants top end prospects for him and teams know that. Offering two nice prospects will not get it done. Dubas want real game changers here and if he does move Rakell he will get that back.
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Brock Boeser? Nic Ehlers? Matt Duchene? Even Patrick Kane or Brad Marchand still, and these are just free agents. What about Laine or maybe even Kreider. Hell what if Kaprizov doesn't want to extend? If things keep going down hill in New York then Panarin could be available too
 
I mean yeah I was comin in high on the initial offer. That’s what you’re supposed to do. Maybe I wanted to haggle?

Now it’s typical HFB slop arguing about why everyone’s guy sucks.

Should’ve known better. Damn.
 
DistantThunderRep said:
Any trade for Rakell would require retention. Tampa wouldn't give up Geekie. Why would Pittsburgh do anything less? Just not good trading partners.
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Doubtful Pittsburgh is going to retain on Rakell or Rust. Karlsson is an obvious one they will need to. But those two are already very good value right now so taking back a bad contract maybe, but using a retention slot for a team that likely will need them in future trades makes no sense.
 
DistantThunderRep said:
Any trade for Rakell would require retention. Tampa wouldn't give up Geekie. Why would Pittsburgh do anything less? Just not good trading partners.
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Why? Rakellk's a bargan at $5million with the rising cap. 25+ goals 55+ points and equally comfortable on both wings.
 
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