Taxes on UFAs signing in Montreal.

[Schwang]

im sorry if I’m missing something when I say this, but if the league truly wants parity, then why don’t they make adjustments to the cap based on taxes? How is it fair for Montreal to have the same cap as Vegas, when the state has no tax? That’s an unfair advantage under the cap system. You truly are not playing with the same money when you think about it. To a free agent, it’s more attractive to sign in Vegas because they’ll save on taxes. That could work out to quite a bit of money. Montreal would need to offer more to level the playing field. Why not adjust Vegas cap down and Montreal’s up in this case? I believe there are other States in there as well. It’s not a level playing field.
I’m just speaking financially btw. not climate, history, competitiveness or other attractions.

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[WinterLion]

Here is why: The league also wants to grow the game in the USA.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Because there isn't a strong enough push by owners to get it. Even if you had an after-tax cap, the actual taxes players pay is wildly different based on their tax planning. That varies based on counsel, income, nationality, how much they play in each country, etc.

And "true parity" means more than that. True parity means, to start, spending limits along with a cap. In all of the team's operations.

If enough of the owners push for it, it'll happen. But its not really likely any time soon.

 

[Scintillating10]

im sorry if I’m missing something when I say this, but if the league truly wants parity, then why don’t they make adjustments to the cap based on taxes? How is it fair for Montreal to have the same cap as Vegas, when the state has no tax? That’s an unfair advantage under the cap system. You truly are not playing with the same money when you think about it. To a free agent, it’s more attractive to sign in Vegas because they’ll save on taxes. That could work out to quite a bit of money. Montreal would need to offer more to level the playing field. Why not adjust Vegas cap down and Montreal’s up in this case? I believe there are other States in there as well. It’s not a level playing field.
I’m just speaking financially btw. not climate, history, competitiveness or other attractions.

Another reason why no Canadian team won a Cup since 1993

 

[DXStriker]

I was thinking about this a lot lately ... The tax situation is basically another cap lol
I dont know why you dont centralize NHL Offices and everyone gets paid from NY or they adjust the cap somehow .

A team like MTL cannot compete with the Vegas , NSH other 0% state tax teams .

Dallas was a perfect example ( I think MB fkd the radulov thing ) but for us to pay Radulov the same DAL is paying him we would have had to pay him a ~milllion more .

Teams are not on the same Salary Cap.
They should almost put in a luxury tax or something .

For all the Parity stuff since 2009 , we have had 4 teams win the cup until this year . Two teams did it 3 times . Chi-La-Pit have 8 of the 10 cups lol
Even the NBA as a joke league they have become with super teams have had 6 teams win since 2009 lol and They are straight out Super teams .

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Some clubs in the U.S are placed in Democratic strongholds and they tax quite heavily and have their high cost of living. D.C and the suburbs of NoVA ain't letting their coin slip through their hands.

I highly doubt the three California teams are cheap places to live either. It is the most socialist state in the United States.

 

[Sorinth]

There will always be an excuse, we can't compete for FA because it's cold and they want to go to California or Florida where it's warm. We can't compete for FA because they don't want to send their kids to French school, etc...

Bottom line is if you have a great organization that treats it players well, and is always in contention players will want to come here.

And for the record the goal of the salary cap was Cost Certainty, that's what the NHL said every day leading up to and during the lockout. Parity was never the primary aim.

 

[the]

Those damn taxes, they made us lose Radulov.

 

[Laurentide]

im sorry if I’m missing something when I say this, but if the league truly wants parity, then why don’t they make adjustments to the cap based on taxes? How is it fair for Montreal to have the same cap as Vegas, when the state has no tax? That’s an unfair advantage under the cap system. You truly are not playing with the same money when you think about it. To a free agent, it’s more attractive to sign in Vegas because they’ll save on taxes. That could work out to quite a bit of money. Montreal would need to offer more to level the playing field. Why not adjust Vegas cap down and Montreal’s up in this case? I believe there are other States in there as well. It’s not a level playing field.
I’m just speaking financially btw. not climate, history, competitiveness or other attractions.

I've been saying this for years. The cap has to be pegged to an after tax amount so that teams in higher taxed markets can spend enough to make up the difference. Otherwise all the good players will just gravitate to places like Florida or Nevada where there are no state taxes to pay. It's bad enough that they have the advantage of 365 days a year golfing to lure players with.

 

[DXStriker]

There will always be an excuse, we can't compete for FA because it's cold and they want to go to California or Florida where it's warm. We can't compete for FA because they don't want to send their kids to French school, etc...

Bottom line is if you have a great organization that treats it players well, and is always in contention players will want to come here.

And for the record the goal of the salary cap was Cost Certainty, that's what the NHL said every day leading up to and during the lockout. Parity was never the primary aim.

Those things you mentioned are reasons other than money though . That factors anywhere in any sport but I am thinking the cap is not a true cap when for example ( I know he chose TB for other reasons ) but Stamkos has a 7.8 caphit in TB and to make the same amount of money here he would be over 10 million . that's a pretty difference on the CAP which everyone is supposed to be even .

 

[ECWHSWI]

I've been saying this for years. The cap has to be pegged to an after tax amount so that teams in higher taxed markets can spend enough to make up the difference. Otherwise all the good players will just gravitate to places like Florida or Nevada where there are no state taxes to pay. It's bad enough that they have the advantage of 365 days a year golfing to lure players with.

Montreal happen to be in Canada, wich means that whatever you spend will be in Canadian dollar... while being paid in us dollars...

 

[Adam Michaels]

There will always be an excuse, we can't compete for FA because it's cold and they want to go to California or Florida where it's warm. We can't compete for FA because they don't want to send their kids to French school, etc...

Bottom line is if you have a great organization that treats it players well, and is always in contention players will want to come here.

And for the record the goal of the salary cap was Cost Certainty, that's what the NHL said every day leading up to and during the lockout. Parity was never the primary aim.

1- Habs don't only lose out on FA's to California or Florida. A lot of players still sign in Buffalo (Okposo), Minnesota (Staal), Detroit (Green) and those have similar weather and are taxed, as well.

2 - If one of the reasons players don't come here is because they don't want to send their kids to French school, that says more about them than Montreal.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Do small market teams get adjusted based on ticket prices? Market potential? Arena size?

Does Molson and company want an artificially higher salary cap floor?

Or is this the habs who already have an advantage looking for more because management can't get it done?

 

[Sorinth]

Those things you mentioned are reasons other than money though . That factors anywhere in any sport but I am thinking the cap is not a true cap when for example ( I know he chose TB for other reasons ) but Stamkos has a 7.8 caphit in TB and to make the same amount of money here he would be over 10 million . that's a pretty difference on the CAP which everyone is supposed to be even .

You want to stick to dollars, fine.

Endorsement opportunities aren't the same in every city, and that directly impacts money. Should the NYR have a smaller cap because they'll make more money on endorsements in the big apple?

Do you have to factor in housing? It's cheaper to buy a mansion in Winnipeg then one in Tampa. If Stamkos has to spend an extra couple million on housing then he isn't actually ahead is he. Prices in New York are going to be even worse, should they have a higher cap to compensate them. Should we adjust the cap for cost of living, or as people have already pointed out the fact that they are paid in US dollars but buy things in CAD, do we have to adjust for currency fluctuations

How do you deal with states that tax players for the number of games they play in that state? How do you deal with european players who can defer their taxes and pay a lump sum after they retire and go back to their home country?

 

[RickP]

For what it's worth, Georges Laraque claims taxes are not a problem, he didn't pay provincial taxes in Quebec when he played for the Habs, he paid taxes in Alberta, that's where he lived, officially. He said none of his teammates paid provincial taxes in Quebec. Not sure how reliable that info is though...

 

[Cobra Commander]

1- Habs don't only lose out on FA's to California or Florida. A lot of players still sign in Buffalo (Okposo), Minnesota (Staal), Detroit (Green) and those have similar weather and are taxed, as well.

2 - If one of the reasons players don't come here is because they don't want to send their kids to French school, that says more about them than Montreal.

But if someone doesn't want their kids going to certain language schools that is their right, what does it say about them exactly?

 

[Adam Michaels]

But if someone doesn't want their kids going to certain language schools that is their right, what does it say about them exactly?

That they choose not to go to a place where their kids can learn another language and a new culture. That is their right. I'm of the opinion it's not a good reason to not want to sign in Montreal.

 

[Rickkins]

But if someone doesn't want their kids going to certain language schools that is their right, what does it say about them exactly?

It say that they want their kids to haven the best school experience possible in their mother tongue, and not to have some foreign language crammed down their throat.....

 

[Cobra Commander]

That they choose not to go to a place where their kids can learn another language and a new culture. That is their right. I'm of the opinion it's not a good reason to not want to sign in Montreal.

I'm a bilingual Montrealer with no language biases, i'm for equality and choice, i don't condone the language policies of Quebec. I've been to both French and English schools in Montreal. Eventually the language biases will change, but for now when you mix that in with the high taxes and the pressure cooker that is Montreal, the French media and social media, cold winters/humid summers, potholes, road contruction and detours... Bad team, Molson and Bergevin at the helm... You can see how players wouldn't wanna come here.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I'm a bilingual Montrealer with no language biases, i'm for equality and choice, i don't condone the language policies of Quebec. I've been to both French and English schools in Montreal. Eventually the language biases will change, but for now when you mix that in with the high taxes and the pressure cooker that is Montreal, the French media and social media, cold winters/humid summers, potholes, road contruction and detours... Bad team, Molson and Bergevin at the helm... You can see how players wouldn't wanna come here.

I don't disagree with any of your reasons why players would choose other places over Montreal. All legitimate. And I agree with you on the language policies (although that's more political related). I'm also bilingual (trilingual if you count Greek).

I'm just looking at it from my perspective as a parent. If I have a job opportunity in Raleigh and another one in Stockholm, I wouldn't necessarily pick Raleigh because I don't want my kid to learn Swedish. Which is why I don't think a player signing elsewhere because they don't want their kid(s) to learn French is a good enough reason. Like you said, it's their right. Personally, I think it's more on the parents than it is on Montreal. You can't hold that against the city.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Those damn taxes, they made us lose Radulov.

Marc "Taxes" Bergevin.

Indeed.

 

[Cobra Commander]

I don't disagree with any of your reasons why players would choose other places over Montreal. All legitimate. And I agree with you on the language policies (although that's more political related). I'm also bilingual (trilingual if you count Greek).

I'm just looking at it from my perspective as a parent. If I have a job opportunity in Raleigh and another one in Stockholm, I wouldn't necessarily pick Raleigh because I don't want my kid to learn Swedish. Which is why I don't think a player signing elsewhere because they don't want their kid(s) to learn French is a good enough reason. Like you said, it's their right. Personally, I think it's more on the parents than it is on Montreal. You can't hold that against the city.

Montreal is a world class city no question. If people don't wanna move here because they would have to put their kids in French school well that is their choice, but plenty of us went to French school and still were able to learn to read and write in English because it is a very easy language. Plenty of English speaking kids thrive in the French schools. It's all about choice, personally i wouldn't want to move to a non english speaking country, just my preference.

 

[Milhouse40]

Taxes have very little to do with it.
Other teams like Anaheim, Ney york (both teams), Toronto, Los Angeles or San Jose (Who can compete for Tavares apparently despites high taxes) have just as high taxes as Montreal.

 

[hotcarle]

1- Habs don't only lose out on FA's to California or Florida. A lot of players still sign in Buffalo (Okposo), Minnesota (Staal), Detroit (Green) and those have similar weather and are taxed, as well.

2 - If one of the reasons players don't come here is because they don't want to send their kids to French school, that says more about them than Montreal.

2-l never understood this argument, because, at 5m a year usd, you can easily afford a 20k a year top level Westmount private school. It's their equivalent of me worrying about paying for my car registration.

I can actually see how an American would be worried about whether his kids, especially in high school , would have trouble doing well in a French school. They wouldn't understand anything, and could never catch up in time.

 

[MTL-rules]

I'm a bilingual Montrealer with no language biases, i'm for equality and choice, i don't condone the language policies of Quebec. I've been to both French and English schools in Montreal. Eventually the language biases will change, but for now when you mix that in with the high taxes and the pressure cooker that is Montreal, the French media and social media, cold winters/humid summers, potholes, road contruction and detours... Bad team, Molson and Bergevin at the helm... You can see how players wouldn't wanna come here.

Hockey players don't send their kids to french schools... they learn french as a second language just like any other english schools which is where they send their kids. Law 101 on public schools don't apply to private schools... if you have the $$$ you can send your kids to any legal private school : english, french, spanish, mongolian...