Series Talk: Tax implications

[Nineteen67]

The NHL really needs to arts the tax advantages some teams have with a fixed cap.
I always knew the no/low tax states have a huge advantage, but, I let AI spell it out directly for the Leafs vs Panthers in this years playoffs (exclusively)
We are looking at an advantage of ~45 million... imagine our depth with that much extra $$. We would have been able y to fit Marchand and Jones with full cap hits with ease and upgrade every depth player as well. So, we are a little hard on our guys since the ice is tilled WAY to the south!!

Accounting for the tax discrepancy, the Florida Panthers’ effective cap hit in Toronto’s tax environment was ~$132.9M, or $44.9M over the $88M cap, compared to the Leafs’

44.9 isn’t even close to the discrepancy. What is the provincial income tax in Ontario?

 

[Mosby]

No state tax for Seattle or Nashville and those teams are dogshit. Try again.

 

[ULF_55]

You know a a Salary Cap should be applied for all teams and all games.

If I had to permit teams being over the Cap, I'd change it so that that rule is excluded after trade deadline day.

If the league cannot manage the cheating teams in Post Season, level the playing field by changing it to after trade deadline day.

This would enable tanking teams to get the best return on selling their players.

Hiding injured players on LTIR when they could have played prior to the playoffs seems like a cop-out


League could use a tax exemption clause based on all tax jurisdictions, but that isn't simple, but I'm sure Bettman thinks he has the smartest people working in the NHL.

It's just math, and not rocket science.

 

[WillNy29]

The NHL really needs to arts the tax advantages some teams have with a fixed cap.
I always knew the no/low tax states have a huge advantage, but, I let AI spell it out directly for the Leafs vs Panthers in this years playoffs (exclusively)
We are looking at an advantage of ~45 million... imagine our depth with that much extra $$. We would have been able y to fit Marchand and Jones with full cap hits with ease and upgrade every depth player as well. So, we are a little hard on our guys since the ice is tilled WAY to the south!!

Accounting for the tax discrepancy, the Florida Panthers’ effective cap hit in Toronto’s tax environment was ~$132.9M, or $44.9M over the $88M cap, compared to the Leafs’

your AI calculator is wrong. it didnt account for RCA's, bonuses, dividend payouts, property and sales taxes etc

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I think your AI response is nuts and warrants double checking. Especially since it also thinks Vancouver and the Rangers made the playoffs…?

More over, the primary problem with the Leafs wasnt a lack of depth, it was their top players getting dragged around the ice like a squeegee.

Lack of cap wasnt the issue. Spending cap on the wrong guys was the issue.

The Blackhawks fan is correct.

 

[mydnyte]

No state tax for Seattle or Nashville and those teams are dogshit. Try again.

Seattle did a pathetic job in their expansion draft, and Nashville tried to retool, and failed huge.
making bad decisions has nothing to do with how much extra $$ they can toss at people, and who wants to go to Seattle, depressing as hell city!!

 

[WillNy29]

Seattle did a pathetic job in their expansion draft, and Nashville tried to retool, and failed huge.
making bad decisions has nothing to do with how much extra $$ they can toss at people, and who wants to go to Seattle, depressing as hell city!!

you know bonuses aren't taxed at the regular tax rate for celebrities and athletes right? also international tax treaties exist for income earned in other locales. your chatgpt answer is on crack

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Why is there an entire thread about some complete nonsense from ChatGPT? Close this already.

 

[Space umpire]

If the tax advantage were in canadian teams favour, it would be fixed within minutes. Salary/Tax harmonization throughout the league would easily fix it. The league knows exactly what each yearly state tax and what each player can potentially take home.

A simple CBA adjustment fixes this.
All salaries are a flat 1million dollars.
All other monies are paid as annual signing bonus taxed at the rate of the players legal residence.

 

[Kazparov]

Ok but players here in Canada get paid in USD so that's a 40% bump in your gross income that no one talks about.

Leafs management blew the 'internal budget' and overpaid it's players. PERIOD.

Blaming the tax code (while convienently ignoring the exchange rate ) is missing the forest for the trees.

 

[notbias]

Ok but players here in Canada get paid in USD so that's a 40% bump in your gross income that no one talks about.

It's relative to cost of living... this argument never made sense to me.

Does $1 million CAD get you the same life in Toronto as it does in Sudbury?

Does $10 million in Toronto go as far as in Texas?

Leafs management blew the 'internal budget' and overpaid it's players. PERIOD.

Blaming the tax code (while convienently ignoring the exchange rate ) is missing the forest for the trees.

The exchange rate is irrelevant without factoring in the cost of living, taxes are not.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The NHL really needs to arts the tax advantages some teams have with a fixed cap.
I always knew the no/low tax states have a huge advantage, but, I let AI spell it out directly for the Leafs vs Panthers in this years playoffs (exclusively)
We are looking at an advantage of ~45 million... imagine our depth with that much extra $$. We would have been able y to fit Marchand and Jones with full cap hits with ease and upgrade every depth player as well. So, we are a little hard on our guys since the ice is tilled WAY to the south!!

Accounting for the tax discrepancy, the Florida Panthers’ effective cap hit in Toronto’s tax environment was ~$132.9M, or $44.9M over the $88M cap, compared to the Leafs’

This is more than a pure TAX issue .. there are HRR issues too which are significant .. any time you have a socialized legal agreement there are always gonna be massive issues .. MLSE takes in tens of millions (maybe close to touching 100M per) every season from sponsors who sponsor rink .. but because Raptors play there too MLSE does not count it as HRR .. it goes to corporate account and hockey players do not get 50% of it .. it is why MLSE says nothing about da TAX .. there are a few other HRR issue as well .. it is never gonna get resolved folks

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This is more than a pure TAX issue .. there are HRR issues too which are significant .. any time you have a socialized legal agreement there are always gonna be massive issues .. MLSE takes in tens of millions (maybe close to touching 100M per) every season from sponsors who sponsor rink .. but because Raptors play there too MLSE does not count it as HRR .. it goes to corporate account and hockey players do not get 50% of it .. it is why MLSE says nothing about da TAX .. there are a few other HRR issue as well .. it is never gonna get resolved folks

Leafs have plenty of cash flow from this to pay all their players upfront in a SIGNING bonus but it doesn't help with CAP hit calculations .. but they can get their money up to a year quicker than rest of league can do it which helps in NPV calcs

 

[Maple Leaf]

Why is there an entire thread about some complete nonsense from ChatGPT? Close this already.

So you think it is fair and square
?

 

[egd27]

So if this tax thing really does make it out to be as grim as it really is, why are any of us bothering? Why would any of us bother watching or being a fan when rival teams can sign players for ~20% less than Toronto because of an inherent "nothing you can do about it" type of advantage that is clearly insurmountable with the parity in today's league?

Some are getting to that point.

 

[Metroid]

 

[Smittey]

People still don't understand that Marner would take home more money signing 11.9 per year with a tax free team than he would signing 16 per year with Toronto? And then wonder why Toronto has to sign stars to such outrageously high contracts?

 

[Nineteen67]

People still don't understand that Marner would take home more money signing 11.9 per year with a tax free team than he would signing 16 per year with Toronto? And then wonder why Toronto has to sign stars to such outrageously high contracts?

There are no tax free teams.

 

[Tak7]

People still don't understand that Marner would take home more money signing 11.9 per year with a tax free team than he would signing 16 per year with Toronto? And then wonder why Toronto has to sign stars to such outrageously high contracts?

Noel Accari got a cookie sponsorship.
Ilya Mikheyev said the word soup, and the next day had a brand deal.
Dion Phaneuf is doing Booster Juice commercials.
Darcy Tucker is getting paid to do a ton of ambassadorial work for the Leafs.
Doug Gilmour = milk
Canadian Tire were ready to back up the Brinks truck for Steven Stamkos as part of the Leafs pitch.

Whatever you end up losing in pure cash being in Canada / Toronto, you more than make up for in so many other ways.

There's also ways of creatively moving your money within Canada to ensure you don't get taxed heavily on it. Allan Walsh has talked about this a lot on agent provocateur.

 

[Tak7]

No state tax for Seattle or Nashville and those teams are dogshit. Try again.

8 of the last 10 cup finals has featured a team with no state income tax.

Whether you believe it to be a factor or not is irrelevant - as we learned last week, NHL teams think it is, which is why it was tabled during CBA negotiations.

 

[Fogelhund]

Ok but players here in Canada get paid in USD so that's a 40% bump in your gross income that no one talks about.

Leafs management blew the 'internal budget' and overpaid it's players. PERIOD.

Blaming the tax code (while convienently ignoring the exchange rate ) is missing the forest for the trees.

Say what now?

Player A in the States gets paid $10 mil USD.
Player B in Canada gets paid $10 mil USD.

Somehow you think Player B gets a 40% bump in their gross income? Please tell me you aren't serious.

 

[Americanadian]

Noel Accari got a cookie sponsorship.
Ilya Mikheyev said the word soup, and the next day had a brand deal.
Dion Phaneuf is doing Booster Juice commercials.
Darcy Tucker is getting paid to do a ton of ambassadorial work for the Leafs.
Doug Gilmour = milk
Canadian Tire were ready to back up the Brinks truck for Steven Stamkos as part of the Leafs pitch.

Whatever you end up losing in pure cash being in Canada / Toronto, you more than make up for in so many other ways.

There's also ways of creatively moving your money within Canada to ensure you don't get taxed heavily on it. Allan Walsh has talked about this a lot on agent provocateur.

How much do we think these sponsorships are really worth? 10k? 25k? 50k? 100k?

The Canadian Tire/Stamkos sponsorship might have been a big proposal but Acciari getting a cookie sponsorship was likely a 25k pay day.

 

[Zonk]

So we are frustrated that NHL teams based in states with no income tax have a competitive edge over teams in higher-tax jurisdictions, particularly when it comes to attracting top talent. But if we're being fair, shouldn't that frustration extend beyond the rink?

It is important to recognize that the effects of tax policy extend beyond professional sports. High personal income taxes can influence decision-making across all sectors of the economy, affecting where individuals choose to live and work.

These broader implications warrant consideration when evaluating the overall impact of tax structures. How would you react if our government reduced taxes on all high income earners, and not just professional athletes, in order to make Canada more competitive?

 

[Fogelhund]

So we are frustrated that NHL teams based in states with no income tax have a competitive edge over teams in higher-tax jurisdictions, particularly when it comes to attracting top talent. But if we're being fair, shouldn't that frustration extend beyond the rink?

It is important to recognize that the effects of tax policy extend beyond professional sports. High personal income taxes can influence decision-making across all sectors of the economy, affecting where individuals choose to live and work.

These broader implications warrant consideration when evaluating the overall impact of tax structures. How would you react if our government reduced taxes on all high income earners, and not just professional athletes, in order to make Canada more competitive?

There appears to be no appetite by the NHL, or NHLPA to address the current situation, so I think for now it's a talking point. The Canadian government shouldn't be changing their overall taxes, or even a jock tax... If this becomes too much of an issue, it's for the CBA to deal with. While I do believe that there are more and more players, agents and tax experts looking at this, and making some decisions based on it, I also believe it isn't the deciding factor. Sure, a bunch of teams in tax preferred jurisdictions have had success the last few years, but that very well could be part of a cycle too, that is making us focus on it more.

If this trend continues though, it will need to be addressed by the league.

 

[Stephen]

There appears to be no appetite by the NHL, or NHLPA to address the current situation, so I think for now it's a talking point. The Canadian government shouldn't be changing their overall taxes, or even a jock tax... If this becomes too much of an issue, it's for the CBA to deal with. While I do believe that there are more and more players, agents and tax experts looking at this, and making some decisions based on it, I also believe it isn't the deciding factor. Sure, a bunch of teams in tax preferred jurisdictions have had success the last few years, but that very well could be part of a cycle too, that is making us focus on it more.

If this trend continues though, it will need to be addressed by the league.

Just move the Toronto Maple Leafs to Florida. Problems solved.