Tavares Worst Captain Ever

[Tres Peleches]

Not to mention wishing him death, etc. A real classy bunch.

Coming from Toronto fans? f***ing laughable hypocrites

Anyone who wished him or his family harm can go f*** themselves, but perhaps look in the mirror at your own fanbase before throwing stones

'I had 300 death threats in one night': April Reimer, wife of Maple Leafs goalie, recounts Twitter attack

'They can say he's a bad goalie. But when it gets hurtful, hateful or harmful, that's not acceptable.' Reimer was promoting an anti-bullying campaign in…

nationalpost.com

 

[Sky04]

The Bruins have tons of experience in the playoffs and with the Leafs.

The game plan has always been shut down their top two lines/top four D as the Leafs can't hit the broadside of a barn with their bottom line players.

It blows my mind that the Leafs AGAIN think they can go deep in the playoffs with a severe lack of talented depth.

Because they're top heavy, does this simple fact not process with you? Where are you expecting "talented depth" for pennies to come from? And again, it's not the "depth" that's supposed to be scoring, it's the top lines who are supposed to outpeform the other teams defense, kinda like how EVERY other teams top lines do.

The lack of accountability on $50M worth of forwards is astounding.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The Bruins have tons of experience in the playoffs and with the Leafs.

The game plan has always been shut down their top two lines/top four D as the Leafs can't hit the broadside of a barn with their bottom line players.

It blows my mind that the Leafs AGAIN think they can go deep in the playoffs with a severe lack of talented depth.

Maybe the Leafs shouldn't have wasted $11 million on a guy who performs like a 2nd liner and disappears come playoff time?

 

[BMOK33]

No dog in the fight but it wasn't him simply leaving, it was how he strung them along his last year+ only to leave the NYI holding an empty bag.

One doesn't have to be an Isles fan to recognize his as one of the shittiest moves by a supposed franchise player, and when he offered up an excited pajama-boy picture for public consumption the moment he left in contrast to his repeated assertions of there being "good communication" in order to deflect any questions re re-signing, that empty bag looks a lot like it was no accident.

What it looks like is that his childhood dream of TOR looked so dreamy he spent a year BS-ing NYers so the Leafs didn't need to trade assets away to a Conference rival. Turns out the vaguely-put "good communication" wasn't in reference to negotiating with the Isles' management as one would assume, but more likely with some folks in Toronto.

Like it or not, his actions cast doubt on his words at the time, and he carries the odor of negotiating in bad faith if not outright betrayal. For many not living in NY or TOR, his star of general Like-ability fell and many don't mind seeing his on-ice success fall in the same manner.

I want to say Garth Snow pretty much said they never really had any contract negotiations of substance at all and that he did want to move him but Ledecky and Malkin weren’t too warm on it at the time so he held onto him. I’ve suspected for awhile he didn’t really plan to leave and was just sort of being nice going through the UFA process but was not ever seriously going to sign with anyone else. It may have been his fiancée who dropped the bomb on him that week and said we’re going to Toronto whether you like it or not. It’s one of those things I believe eventually we get the truth but it’ll be 10 more years til we do

 

[norrisnick]

Maybe the Leafs shouldn't have wasted $11 million on a guy who performs like a 2nd liner and disappears come playoff time?

You're going to need to be a bit more specific...

 

[nturn06]

I wonder since the penguins were one of the top dogs at the time that dubas went towards that blueprint of making his version of Crosby and Malkin down the middle...with reilly as his version of letang. Also going with unheralded goalies like how Matt Murray won with them. That threat at center masked their weaknesses pretty well.

Crosby and Malkin is one of the greatest duos at center of all time though... but just a thought.

I believe that he went towards that blueprint of making his version of Soo Greyhounds. He build the TML like they were a juniors team.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Mentioned this in the playoffs thread but I’ll say it here.

I don’t think it was a bad idea to sign him given what they knew back then.

The idea of four great forwards COULD have worked in theory. There was no way for them to know that Marner would shit the bed every year and Matthews would underperform. To make matters worse JT got hurt and isn’t nearly as good as he used to be.

JT was a legit superstar and adding him could very well have put them over. It should’ve been a potent offense that could score its way out of problems.

So yeah, it wasn’t a terrible idea in theory. But in practice it’s been a disaster. You pay that much to four guys they at least better show up. Only Nylander has really delivered. And all these guys are perimeter players. None play with any jam and it’s been really one dimensional.

Hindsight is 20/20

 

[Tres Peleches]

Mentioned this in the playoffs thread but I’ll say it here.

I don’t think it was a bad idea to sign him given what they knew back then.

The idea of four great forwards COULD have worked in theory. There was no way for them to know that Marner would shit the bed every year and Matthews would underperform. To make matters worse JT got hurt and isn’t nearly as good as he used to be.

JT was a legit superstar and adding him could very well have put them over. It should’ve been a potent offense that could score its way out of problems.

So yeah, it wasn’t a terrible idea in theory. But in practice it’s been a disaster. You pay that much to four guys they at least better show up. Only Nylander has really delivered. And all these guys are perimeter players. None play with any jam and it’s been really one dimensional.

Hindsight is 20/20

This isn’t basketball. You need more than 3/4 great players to make a team championship caliber

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This isn’t basketball. You need more than 3/4 great players to make a team championship caliber

3 or 4 great players win cups all the time. Colorado did it. Pittsburgh did it.

Toronto’s strategy was unconventional because it was four fowards. They had Reilly on the back end and filled it in with vets like Giordano. In theory that should work.

But it’s not going to work if your scorers don’t actually score.

 

[Tres Peleches]

3 or 4 great players win cups all the time. Colorado did it. Pittsburgh did it.

Toronto’s strategy was unconventional because it was four fowards. They had Reilly on the back end and filled it in with vets like Giordano. In theory that should work.

But it’s not going to work if your scorers don’t actually score.The fact that it was 4 forwards is exactly why it will never work, unless you’re lucky enough to stumble onto a few gems of rookies at the goaltending and defense positions that can play exceptional hockey at an ELC price

Ok, let me rephrase.

Having 4 great highly paid forwards is not enough to win in this league. The only way it theoretically works is if you get exceptional value out of players on ELC’s/goalies, which can happen but if that’s your plan… well then it’s a stupid one

Having 10 of the best violinists in the world is great and all

But if your cellists are 10 year-old slackers, your orchestra is going to suck regardless

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Ok, let me rephrase.

Having 4 great highly paid forwards is not enough to win in this league. The only way it theoretically works is if you get exceptional value out of players on ELC’s/goalies, which can happen but if that’s your plan… well then it’s a stupid one

Having 10 of the best violinists in the world is great and all

But if your cellists are 10 year-old slackers, your orchestra is going to suck regardless

I get what you’re saying and somewhat agree. But I see where they were coming from too.

They had three great forwards and then a fourth wanted to join. I don’t think many teams would turn that down.

You can fill in the rest of your lineup with vets. Reilly and Giordano weren’t bad to anchor the D. And for all the crap it’s gotten the goaltending wasn’t that bad.

It probably could’ve worked. But their scorers didn’t show up. Tavares got injured which turned his contract into an albatross. There’s just no way they could’ve known how weak Marner would be in the playoffs…

I’m just saying that it wasn’t a terrible idea. It might still work in Edmonton. Those guys actually show up.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

This guy has never shown any emotion or intensity whatsoever throughout his career. Watch him with the media, he's the most neutral guy ever. He just doesn't have the competitive spirit that most captains usually have.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Mentioned this in the playoffs thread but I’ll say it here.

I don’t think it was a bad idea to sign him given what they knew back then.

The idea of four great forwards COULD have worked in theory. There was no way for them to know that Marner would shit the bed every year and Matthews would underperform. To make matters worse JT got hurt and isn’t nearly as good as he used to be.

JT was a legit superstar and adding him could very well have put them over. It should’ve been a potent offense that could score its way out of problems.

So yeah, it wasn’t a terrible idea in theory. But in practice it’s been a disaster. You pay that much to four guys they at least better show up. Only Nylander has really delivered. And all these guys are perimeter players. None play with any jam and it’s been really one dimensional.

Hindsight is 20/20

It’s odd, because while I kinda agree, I also feel like my instincts have been “eh, idk..” on every move they’ve made, starting with that one. And I get the logic of “run it back, again. Retool. Fix defense, this core can work!” But at a certain point it’s the definition of madness, trying the same thing over and over again, and it started with signing Tavares. There were plenty of people saying “isn’t that a bit overkill?”, and I’m certain I was among them. There was also jealousy and fear, but a good portion of posters immediately called it top-heavy, and they were right.

You cite unforeseen circumstances, good point, but that’s kinda my next thing- once it wasn’t working, and once Marner no-showed multiple playoffs, my instinct was to friggin trade Marner. They tried again instead, and so far it looks worse than ever. Same coach, not sure why that’s never addressed, we just all accept that he’s good despite seemingly never managing this group in the playoffs. The front office appears professional, so we ignore that it was a bit of a clown show transition last year. It’s just more of a mess than the regular season would indicate, I think, and it’s not on Tavares. Spittin Chiclets just informed me of the Marner-Nylander spat on the bench- the f*** is happening over there?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It’s odd, because while I kinda agree, I also feel like my instincts have been “eh, idk..” on every move they’ve made, starting with that one. And I get the logic of “run it back, again. Retool. Fix defense, this core can work!” But at a certain point it’s the definition of madness, trying the same thing over and over again, and it started with signing Tavares. There were plenty of people saying “isn’t that a bit overkill?”, and I’m certain I was among them. There was also jealousy and fear, but a good portion of posters immediately called it top-heavy, and they were right.

A superstar player decides he wants to come play for you and you give up no assets to get him. How many teams are going to say ‘no’?

You cite unforeseen circumstances, good point, but that’s kinda my next thing- once it wasn’t working, and once Marner no-showed multiple playoffs, my instinct was to friggin trade Marner. They tried again instead, and so far it looks worse than ever. Same coach, not sure why that’s never addressed, we just all accept that he’s good despite seemingly never managing this group in the playoffs. The front office appears professional, so we ignore that it was a bit of a clown show transition last year. It’s just more of a mess than the regular season would indicate, I think, and it’s not on Tavares. Spittin Chiclets just informed me of the Marner-Nylander spat on the bench- the f*** is happening over there?

I agree. I’d have traded Marner before his NMC kicked in. By that time they should’ve known what he was. Most of us did. Also agree they should’ve fired Keefe. That was nonsensical to me.

Not dealing Marner was a huge mistake.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

A superstar player decides he wants to come play for you and you give up no assets to get him. How many teams are going to say ‘no’?

I agree. I’d have traded Marner before his NMC kicked in. By that time they should’ve known what he was. Most of us did. Also agree they should’ve fired Keefe. That was nonsensical to me.

Not dealing Marner was a huge mistake.

I believe at the time I kinda accounted for what you’re saying- that it was really tempting, most teams would say yes, but that it might still be a bad idea. I did also think you could always trade one of ‘em, though, so agreed on your second point. Trading out Tavares for Marner (+return for Marner) mighta actually been perfect, but instead they’re kinda compounding errors- keeping Marner was a mistake which makes the Tavares signing worse, now I’d expect Marner to want out after this but his value will suck- get him outta town, reset, new coach, re-evaluate. They gotta stop making the same mistakes, but at least you aren’t recycling bad coaches like my Sabres are.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I believe I accounted for your first point, originally- that it was really tempting, most teams would say yes, but that it might still be a bad idea.

Okay fair enough.

And I’d say you’ve been proven right if that’s what you were thinking back then.

I did also think you could always trade one of ‘em, though, so agreed on your second point. Trading out Tavares for Marner (+return for Marner) mighta actually been perfect, but instead they’re kinda compounding errors- keeping Marner was a mistake which makes the Tavares signing worse, now I’d expect Marner to want out after this but his value will suck- get him outta town, reset, new coach, re-evaluate. They gotta stop making the same mistakes, don’t be like my Sabres.

Definitely should’ve traded Marner. It was so obvious that he just didn’t step up.

JT will leave after this year. That will free up cash. But what the hell do you do with MM? If he doesn’t agree to leave you’re stuck for at least two years and then might lose him for nothing.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Tavares doesn't strike me as someone who cares to win a cup.
His interviews seem so sterile.

There's no passion, or fire. Nothing compared to Marchand.

Like why wasn't he the one screaming on the bench?
The guy has maybe 5 years left in his career, and it seems like he's indifferent about ever winning.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

3 or 4 great players win cups all the time. Colorado did it. Pittsburgh did it.

Toronto’s strategy was unconventional because it was four fowards. They had Reilly on the back end and filled it in with vets like Giordano. In theory that should work.

But it’s not going to work if your scorers don’t actually score.

That strategy only works if the guys you commit the big money to actually have a track record of performing.

The flaw in the Tavares signing is he never showed he could elevate his game come playoff time. It's not like Tavares was a beast for the Isles every playoffs but got let down by lack of depth. Apart from the Florida series, his playoff performances with the Islanders was mediocre at best.

 

[Danarqhy]

He needs to man up and do what Joe Thornton did by removing the C and offering it to someone else on the team.

He should literally do it right away, no need to wait for the offseason. He needs to just admit that he sucks ass as a leader, grow a set and give it to someone else right now. That would be the most leadership he'd have shown as a Leaf.

 

[MCR74]

Coming from Toronto fans? f***ing laughable hypocrites

Anyone who wished him or his family harm can go f*** themselves, but perhaps look in the mirror at your own fanbase before throwing stones

'I had 300 death threats in one night': April Reimer, wife of Maple Leafs goalie, recounts Twitter attack

'They can say he's a bad goalie. But when it gets hurtful, hateful or harmful, that's not acceptable.' Reimer was promoting an anti-bullying campaign in…

nationalpost.com

Isles fans are no better. Plenty still cry about him leaving as a UFA. Maybe they should grow up too.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

He should literally do it right away, no need to wait for the offseason. He needs to just admit that he sucks ass as a leader, grow a set and give it to someone else right now. That would be the most leadership he'd have shown as a Leaf.

It takes someone with a lot of courage to admit to their own personal weaknesses. And to admit that they're not the best leader for the team. Don't think John is that guy. Not sure how he thinks that he is the best fit as captain for them. He needs a reality check.

 

[sting101]

Wow so it's Tavares' fault?

The mistake was not moving Nylander or Marner preferably when they could have kept Hyman.

Hyman was what they needed a fast hard on the puck grinder who would compliment the top end talent they had and would have been half the price of that mitt throwing figure skater Marner to say nothing about what a high pick and more would have returned and the ability to add a 5-6 million dollar shut down defenseman

Dubas fell into the trap of what the media and Marners agents were selling and gave him a Pat Kane post Stanley Cup contract when he had shown glimpses of being a player who wasn't gonna excel in post season play. Flat cap stomped any chance to have decent depth and acquire what they needed which was unfortunate but that's why you dont just cave when it comes to the cap increasing and it should be about % of cap not dollar numbers for RFAs.

By 2020 they should have seen it coming and moved off Marner as both Ottawa and Detroit likely would have been interested at maybe trading a high pick to get a star player who would have only been 23.

Leafs needed players who could get to and protect the inside where goals are scored and games are won and they failed to address that appropriately. It's a talented group of individual core players but it's flawed due to the quality of the secondary group and the lack of it's ability to score goals in a playoff environment.

Management failed the Leafs. Certainly some of players can be pointed at as underwhelming but trying to ask players to be something they are not and providing junk support and a bad coach in Keefe is a bigger factor.

 

[Tres Peleches]

Isles fans are no better. Plenty still cry about him leaving as a UFA. Maybe they should grow up too.

You were the one living in a glass house and throwing stones, jackwagon

 

[34]

Tavares doesn't strike me as someone who cares to win a cup.
His interviews seem so sterile.

There's no passion, or fire. Nothing compared to Marchand.

Like why wasn't he the one screaming on the bench?
The guy has maybe 5 years left in his career, and it seems like he's indifferent about ever winning.

5 years?

 

[norrisnick]

5 years?

How many 39yo forwards do you think keep playing? There were 4 this season.