Tavares vs. Seguin

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Tavares is a two time hart finalist and won first team center over Crosby in 2015. Gotta be him

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Seguin but its a very close comparison for me

 

[authentic]

I'm surprised Seguin has that many votes tbh.

 

[LeafChief]

Three months ago it was Tavares.

Now it's Seguin AINEC.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Three months ago it was Tavares.

Now it's Seguin AINEC.

Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself something. If all else is equal, do you want to be the victim? Do you want to feel like you are being persecuted?

Schiefele Vs. Tavares before Tavares joined Toronto: (121 VOTES)

(Tavares with 43 votes - 35.5% of the vote)

Schiefele Vs. Tavares after Tavares joined Toronto: (426 VOTES)

(Tavares with 156 votes - 36.6% of the vote) +1.1% JUMP AFTER JOINING TORONTO

Seguin Vs. Tavares before Tavares joined Toronto (Thread A) (184 VOTES)

Seguin Vs. Tavares before Tavares joined Toronto (Thread B) (51 VOTES)

(Tavares with 122 votes - 51.9% of the vote)

Seguin Vs. Tavares after Tavares joined Toronto: (310 VOTES)

(Tavares with 168 votes - 54.2% of the vote) +2.3% JUMP AFTER JOINING TORONTO

Is Patrick Marleau a HOFer - Before he joined Toronto: (76 VOTES) (There was no poll, but I personally tallied the comments. For the sake of objectivity, I counted votes that said "probably" or "not likely" in both directions. I did count posts such as "If he wins a Conn Smythe" as "no". I counted results up until the thread was bumped on March 27, 2018, as Marleau was playing for Toronto at that point. I counted 60 votes for yes and 16 votes for no. Feel free to double check the thread.)

(21.1% of the vote was for Yes, with 16 votes saying Yes, Patrick Marleau is a Hall of Famer)

Is Patrick Marleau a HOFer - After he joined Toronto (126 VOTES)

(46.8% of the vote was for Yes, with 59 votes saying Yes, Patrick Marleau is a Hall of Famer) +25.7% JUMP AFTER JOINING TORONTO

So, our sample size here is 1,294 votes - 432 of which came before the player joined Toronto, and 862 of which came after the player joined Toronto. We've also got data from 7 different polls - 4 of which came before the player joined Toronto and 3 of which came after the player joined Toronto. (The two Tavares Vs. Seguin threads before Tavares joined Toronto got lumped into one for the sake of counting numbers.)

Over the course of these identical polls, the Maple Leafs player averaged 36.2% of the vote before they joined the Maple Leafs. Once they joined the Maple Leafs, little else changed, but their polling stock rose to 45.9%. That's an average increase of 9.7% once a player joins the Maple Leafs, over a sample size of 1,294 votes. If there was any sort of anti-Leafs bias, players would not average an increase of 9.7% in their polling stock in identical polls immediately after joining the Toronto Maple Leafs. Perhaps they would in one specific poll with a small sample size and other factors to consider, but not over the sample size of 1,294 votes.

I rest my case - there is no anti-Leafs bias on HFBoards.

 

[IPS]

Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself something. If all else is equal, do you want to be the victim? Do you want to feel like you are being persecuted?

Schiefele Vs. Tavares before Tavares joined Toronto: (121 VOTES)

(Tavares with 43 votes - 35.5% of the vote)

Schiefele Vs. Tavares after Tavares joined Toronto: (426 VOTES)

(Tavares with 156 votes - 36.6% of the vote) +1.1% JUMP AFTER JOINING TORONTO

Seguin Vs. Tavares before Tavares joined Toronto (Thread A) (184 VOTES)

Seguin Vs. Tavares before Tavares joined Toronto (Thread B) (51 VOTES)

(Tavares with 122 votes - 51.9% of the vote)

Seguin Vs. Tavares after Tavares joined Toronto: (310 VOTES)

(Tavares with 168 votes - 54.2% of the vote) +2.3% JUMP AFTER JOINING TORONTO

Is Patrick Marleau a HOFer - Before he joined Toronto: (76 VOTES) (There was no poll, but I personally tallied the comments. For the sake of objectivity, I counted votes that said "probably" or "not likely" in both directions. I did count posts such as "If he wins a Conn Smythe" as "no". I counted results up until the thread was bumped on March 27, 2018, as Marleau was playing for Toronto at that point. I counted 60 votes for yes and 16 votes for no. Feel free to double check the thread.)

(21.1% of the vote was for Yes, with 16 votes saying Yes, Patrick Marleau is a Hall of Famer)

Is Patrick Marleau a HOFer - After he joined Toronto (126 VOTES)

(46.8% of the vote was for Yes, with 59 votes saying Yes, Patrick Marleau is a Hall of Famer) +25.7% JUMP AFTER JOINING TORONTO

So, our sample size here is 1,294 votes - 432 of which came before the player joined Toronto, and 862 of which came after the player joined Toronto. We've also got data from 7 different polls - 4 of which came before the player joined Toronto and 3 of which came after the player joined Toronto. (The two Tavares Vs. Seguin threads before Tavares joined Toronto got lumped into one for the sake of counting numbers.)

Over the course of these identical polls, the Maple Leafs player averaged 36.2% of the vote before they joined the Maple Leafs. Once they joined the Maple Leafs, little else changed, but their polling stock rose to 45.9%. That's an average increase of 9.7% once a player joins the Maple Leafs, over a sample size of 1,294 votes. If there was any sort of anti-Leafs bias, players would not average an increase of 9.7% in their polling stock in identical polls immediately after joining the Toronto Maple Leafs. Perhaps they would in one specific poll with a small sample size and other factors to consider, but not over the sample size of 1,294 votes.

I rest my case - there is no anti-Leafs bias on HFBoards.

You forgot to add the best one: Phil Kessel before and after he became a Penguin lost and won the exact same poll to Hossa.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

It doesn't show that at all.

It's clear to everyone on this forum that fan allegiance plays a huge roll in the discussions and voting that happens. This site lacks objectivity, but we also know it, and to be honest, it's much worse on other hockey related boards like /r/hockey (reddit).

If you want evidence of anti-Leaf objectivity, visit the "overrated" threads or really any mainboard or trade value thread. To be honest, I think it's a small but very vocal minority that causes most of the issues, and can't help but go after Leaf players or the organization every chance they get - it's easy likes on this forum and sadly some people obviously post with that in mind. The current overrated thread is on it's second thread and about 50% of the pages are people fighting over Matthews. It's reasonable that he's brought up, but is it reasonable that it's half the thread? That's where the anti-bias comes in. They always point the direction of the conversation towards anti-Leaf by instigating an argument about one of our guys.

Another example: https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-has-the-worst-d-core-in-the-nhl.2535789/page-6

25% of the discussion is on the Leafs...aka a top 10 offensive d core, bottom 10 defensive d core....probably sits somewhere just below average. Last, though? Really? Are you telling me NYI, DET, CHI, OTT, MTL etc wouldn't have traded their defence core for ours? They don't belong in that discussion, and yet...they somehow are the 3rd most mentioned team.

This has been happening in online hockey circles as long as I can remember, that's what happens when you are the big baddy I guess. It happened even when the team sucked, and most of us had to bite our tongues....the current brash, confident and probably annoying Leaf fan base is a product of a decade of being the easy target. If you constantly make the narrative about how bad they are, "1967", etc then it shouldn't be a shock that the fanbase gets rowdy and pushes back now that the team is a legitimate threat.

The endless "leaf homers" whining gets old.

Those threads become about Matthews, Leafs' D, etc. because there are so many Leafs fans in there capping for their players. Not because there are just Leaf haters attacking them left and right. One or two posters might come in and say Matthews is overrated, with no intentions other than stirring the pot, but 50 Leafs fans feel the need to come in and say that Matthews is underrated and is comparable to McDavid.

The fact that you say this site compares unfavorably to R/Hockey shows you lack credibility. R/Hockey is terrible. When Martin Jones had a .912% SV in the 2016-2017 season and was well below .910 SV% midway through the 2017-2018 season, I posted on the Reddit Sharks board saying "Jones absolutely has given us reason to doubt him." and I got downvoted to hell. HFBoards looks like a Harvard, Yale, and Cornell alumni reunion compared to r/hockey.

So 3 polls, all separated by what most professional polling sites consider margin for error, and that's the conclusion you came to?

So dramatic. Stop whining.

You say that I am whining and being dramatic, but you are the one crying victim in every thread because "WAH WAH, HFBOARDS HATES THE LEAFS!" when the evidence only points to the contrary.

Less than 40 votes is a poll?

That original vote had less than 40 voters.

Is the sample size of 1,294 voters - where the Maple Leafs player averaged a 9.7% increase in their polling stock after joining Toronto - good enough for you guys?

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

You forgot to add the best one: Phil Kessel before and after he became a Penguin lost and won the exact same poll to Hossa.

Find it. I've heard about this one and tried to find it. I also tried to find the one where Matthews was losing to Eichel and Barkov before the draft lottery, and then came from behind to destroy them after Toronto won the draft lottery. IF I had evidence of both, I would gladly add both. I went out of my way to create the Marleau HOF poll and the Tavares Vs. Schiefele poll in order to create evidence to disprove this since the last time we had this argument.

Do you have a rough estimate of how many votes were in the Hossa/Kessel polls? If they were 250 votes each, and Kessel had 40% of the vote before leaving Toronto, and 65% of the vote after joining Pittsburgh, then we would have a sample size of 1,794 posts, where the Maple Leafs player has an increase of 1.4% per poll. It would still further disprove this victim mentality as a whole.

Since we can't find either of these polls, it looks like we'll just have to use the 1,294 votes that we currently have, where the average result is that a player gains 9.7% in their polling stock after joining Toronto.

 

[IPS]

Find it. I've heard about this one and tried to find it. I also tried to find the one where Matthews was losing to Eichel and Barkov before the draft lottery, and then came from behind to destroy them after Toronto won the draft lottery. IF I had evidence of both, I would gladly add both. I went out of my way to create the Marleau HOF poll and the Tavares Vs. Schiefele poll in order to create evidence to disprove this since the last time we had this argument.

Do you have a rough estimate of how many votes were in the Hossa/Kessel polls? If they were 250 votes each, and Kessel had 40% of the vote before leaving Toronto, and 65% of the vote after joining Pittsburgh, then we would have a sample size of 1,794 posts, where the Maple Leafs player has an increase of 1.4% per poll. It would still further disprove this victim mentality as a whole.

Since we can't find either of these polls, it looks like we'll just have to use the 1,294 votes that we currently have, where the average result is that a player gains 9.7% in their polling stock after joining Toronto.

It got lost during the migration. It 100% happened, I'm not the only one who'll attest to this. I kind of laughed at your Marleau example too. Nobody gives a f*** about hating on a 37 year old free-agent who played his entire career somewhere else.

Just keep doing your thing and keep trying to justify your bitterness towards the Leafs, it's beyond hilarious.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

It got lost during the migration. It 100% happened, I'm not the only one who'll attest to this. I kind of laughed at your Marleau example too. Nobody gives a **** about hating on a 37 year old free-agent who played his entire career somewhere else.

Just keep doing your thing and keep trying to justify your bitterness towards the Leafs, it's beyond hilarious.

I'm not even doubting that it happened. I don't doubt that the Matthews Vs. Barkov Vs. Eichel thing happened as well. (Although I'm not 100% sure about his opposition being those two specific players.

You say that nobody gives a f*** about hating on a 37-year old free agent who has played his entire career somewhere else. So then why did so many Leafs fans give a f*** about voting that that player is a Hall of Famer? I'm not sure what exactly is so funny about that. Our initial argument began when you said that Leafs players get crushed in polls on here just because they play for Toronto. That has been disproven at every turn. You have yet to show any evidence of it. One Kessel Vs. Hossa wouldn't be anywhere near evidence enough at this point.

I'm not bitter towards the Leafs. I hate victim mentalities in general and I hate when lies are perpetuated as the truth when the evidence is directly in the face of the liars, disproving them at every turn.

 

[IPS]

I'm not even doubting that it happened. I don't doubt that the Matthews Vs. Barkov Vs. Eichel thing happened as well. (Although I'm not 100% sure about his opposition being those two specific players.

You say that nobody gives a **** about hating on a 37-year old free agent who has played his entire career somewhere else. So then why did so many Leafs fans give a **** about voting that that player is a Hall of Famer? I'm not sure what exactly is so funny about that. Our initial argument began when you said that Leafs players get crushed in polls on here just because they play for Toronto. That has been disproven at every turn. You have yet to show any evidence of it. One Kessel Vs. Hossa wouldn't be anywhere near evidence enough at this point.

I'm not bitter towards the Leafs. I hate victim mentalities in general and I hate when lies are perpetuated as the truth when the evidence is directly in the face of the liars, disproving them at every turn.

The most ironic thing is that it's actually you who overlooks the reality that stares you right into the face. I'm not gonna call out any names but the Leafs are 100% the only team on HFBoards with a 100% dedicated group of haters who will go into every Leafs thread and ruin it. I've never seen any other team on HFBoards have such a thing, and it's rightfully going to have a counter-reaction. It's you calling the counter-reaction to it the "victim complex". If you can't see this, there's nothing to say. Personally, I think it's actually your own hatred of the Leafs that clouds you from seeing this.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

The most ironic thing is that it's actually you who overlooks the reality that stares you right into the face. I'm not gonna call out any names but the Leafs are 100% the only team on HFBoards with a 100% dedicated group of haters who will go into every Leafs thread and ruin it. I've never seen any other team on HFBoards have such a thing, and it's rightfully going to have a counter-reaction. It's you calling the counter-reaction to it the "victim complex". If you can't see this, there's nothing to say. Personally, I think it's actually your own hatred of the Leafs that clouds you from seeing this.

What reality is it that stared me in the face? Yes, there are some Leaf haters on this forum. Perhaps more than haters of any other team on this board. However, there are far more Leaf fans on this board than fans of any other team on this board, and they more than drown out the occasional bad apple/troll of the hater crowd.

This whole argument started a f***ing year ago because you said that Leafs players automatically get crushed in the polls section of this forum just for playing for Toronto. I have successfully gone out of my way multiple times to disprove this - the only correlation that has been found has been a small to medium correlation between players joining Toronto and their stock in polls going up. I’ve created multiple polls to test out this exact theory. Had Marleau’s stock gone down even further after joining Toronto, or Tavares began losing polls even further after he joined Toronto, I would totally concede that there is an anti-Leafs bias on HFBoards. The results simply haven’t proven that at all.

We had that argument - you cited a Kessel Vs. Hossa poll you couldn’t find, I cited a Matthews Vs. Barkov Vs. Eichel poll that I couldn’t find. I created new polls in order to give us an objective assessment. The evidence is all in my favor. You choose to ignore it because you want to be the victim soooo bad. You want to be the wronged party sooo badly. You just want to be the victim. You’re not - at all.

 

[LeafChief]

Why are you yelling

 

[North Cole]

Thanks for being honest. Im gonna show people this when they say there aren't leaf haters lol

Except that doesn't prove what you want it too. He said he didnt vote because the players are too similar for him to pick one.

He specifically said the easy way out would be to pick the non leaf, but he didnt. So it proves he hates the leafs but it proves that he isn't biased and only voting against the leafs. Doesnt make him or leafs haters look bad at all.

 

[Garthinater]

Except that doesn't prove what you want it too. He said he didnt vote because the players are too similar for him to pick one.

He specifically said the easy way out would be to pick the non leaf, but he didnt. So it proves he hates the leafs but it proves that he isn't biased and only voting against the leafs. Doesnt make him or leafs haters look bad at all.

I have been told multiple times that there are no leaf haters on this site.

Saidin literally said he hates the leafs.

My point was proven.

 

[Critical13]

What reality is it that stared me in the face? Yes, there are some Leaf haters on this forum. Perhaps more than haters of any other team on this board. However, there are far more Leaf fans on this board than fans of any other team on this board, and they more than drown out the occasional bad apple/troll of the hater crowd.

This whole argument started a ****ing year ago because you said that Leafs players automatically get crushed in the polls section of this forum just for playing for Toronto. I have successfully gone out of my way multiple times to disprove this - the only correlation that has been found has been a small to medium correlation between players joining Toronto and their stock in polls going up. I’ve created multiple polls to test out this exact theory. Had Marleau’s stock gone down even further after joining Toronto, or Tavares began losing polls even further after he joined Toronto, I would totally concede that there is an anti-Leafs bias on HFBoards. The results simply haven’t proven that at all.

We had that argument - you cited a Kessel Vs. Hossa poll you couldn’t find, I cited a Matthews Vs. Barkov Vs. Eichel poll that I couldn’t find. I created new polls in order to give us an objective assessment. The evidence is all in my favor. You choose to ignore it because you want to be the victim soooo bad. You want to be the wronged party sooo badly. You just want to be the victim. You’re not - at all.

Just out of curiosity - do you think 3 polls, taken about two players, 6-7 months apart, are somehow proving your point?

There is an anti-Leaf bias on here, and I think that's fine. I just think it's a shame that some of us want to talk hockey while others let those few that are vocal and obviously pushing the Leaf negativity to dominate the discussions on here.

If you troll through mainboard threads enough, you'll find people in almost every thread willing to somehow turn it into a shitstorm, and us Leaf fans all too often willingly engage....then we end up with 40 pages of why Matthews 5v5 scoring is overrated or how Nylander's 60 point seasons are pretty mediocre. It's like clockwork, and it's like a disease the hockey community has that it would be better off starving instead of feeding.

 

[Critical13]

From the Leafs board...

Here we have it again folks. John Tavares' stock started sinking the moment he became a Leaf!

June 26th, 2018

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/hedman-vs-tavares.2508965/

September 8th, 2018

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/tavares-vs-hedman-redraft.2537823/

Wow, look at that! Hedman must have done something extraordinary to go from losing to Tavares by 11 votes to now beating him 73 votes. No anti-Leafs bias on HFboards though!

Props to our good friend @super6646 for pointing this out.

Paging @JoeThorntonsRooster

 

[Saidin]

I have been told multiple times that there are no leaf haters on this site.

Saidin literally said he hates the leafs.

My point was proven.

Aww I'm touched you remember me. And it's true.

 

[Garthinater]

Aww I'm touched you remember me. And it's true.

Sorry to burst your bubble but i didnt remember you. Had to go through my post history to find yeah

 

[cowgirlcath]

Went Tavares. Super close.

 

[KPower]

Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself something. If all else is equal, do you want to be the victim? Do you want to feel like you are being persecuted?

Schiefele Vs. Tavares before Tavares joined Toronto: (121 VOTES)

(Tavares with 43 votes - 35.5% of the vote)

Schiefele Vs. Tavares after Tavares joined Toronto: (426 VOTES)

(Tavares with 156 votes - 36.6% of the vote) +1.1% JUMP AFTER JOINING TORONTO

Seguin Vs. Tavares before Tavares joined Toronto (Thread A) (184 VOTES)

Seguin Vs. Tavares before Tavares joined Toronto (Thread B) (51 VOTES)

(Tavares with 122 votes - 51.9% of the vote)

Seguin Vs. Tavares after Tavares joined Toronto: (310 VOTES)

(Tavares with 168 votes - 54.2% of the vote) +2.3% JUMP AFTER JOINING TORONTO

Is Patrick Marleau a HOFer - Before he joined Toronto: (76 VOTES) (There was no poll, but I personally tallied the comments. For the sake of objectivity, I counted votes that said "probably" or "not likely" in both directions. I did count posts such as "If he wins a Conn Smythe" as "no". I counted results up until the thread was bumped on March 27, 2018, as Marleau was playing for Toronto at that point. I counted 60 votes for yes and 16 votes for no. Feel free to double check the thread.)

(21.1% of the vote was for Yes, with 16 votes saying Yes, Patrick Marleau is a Hall of Famer)

Is Patrick Marleau a HOFer - After he joined Toronto (126 VOTES)

(46.8% of the vote was for Yes, with 59 votes saying Yes, Patrick Marleau is a Hall of Famer) +25.7% JUMP AFTER JOINING TORONTO

So, our sample size here is 1,294 votes - 432 of which came before the player joined Toronto, and 862 of which came after the player joined Toronto. We've also got data from 7 different polls - 4 of which came before the player joined Toronto and 3 of which came after the player joined Toronto. (The two Tavares Vs. Seguin threads before Tavares joined Toronto got lumped into one for the sake of counting numbers.)

Over the course of these identical polls, the Maple Leafs player averaged 36.2% of the vote before they joined the Maple Leafs. Once they joined the Maple Leafs, little else changed, but their polling stock rose to 45.9%. That's an average increase of 9.7% once a player joins the Maple Leafs, over a sample size of 1,294 votes. If there was any sort of anti-Leafs bias, players would not average an increase of 9.7% in their polling stock in identical polls immediately after joining the Toronto Maple Leafs. Perhaps they would in one specific poll with a small sample size and other factors to consider, but not over the sample size of 1,294 votes.

I rest my case - there is no anti-Leafs bias on HFBoards.

You care way too much about what hockey fans on the internet think.

 

[LeafsNation75]

What reality is it that stared me in the face? Yes, there are some Leaf haters on this forum. Perhaps more than haters of any other team on this board. However, there are far more Leaf fans on this board than fans of any other team on this board, and they more than drown out the occasional bad apple/troll of the hater crowd.

This whole argument started a ****ing year ago because you said that Leafs players automatically get crushed in the polls section of this forum just for playing for Toronto. I have successfully gone out of my way multiple times to disprove this - the only correlation that has been found has been a small to medium correlation between players joining Toronto and their stock in polls going up. I’ve created multiple polls to test out this exact theory. Had Marleau’s stock gone down even further after joining Toronto, or Tavares began losing polls even further after he joined Toronto, I would totally concede that there is an anti-Leafs bias on HFBoards. The results simply haven’t proven that at all.

We had that argument - you cited a Kessel Vs. Hossa poll you couldn’t find, I cited a Matthews Vs. Barkov Vs. Eichel poll that I couldn’t find. I created new polls in order to give us an objective assessment. The evidence is all in my favor. You choose to ignore it because you want to be the victim soooo bad. You want to be the wronged party sooo badly. You just want to be the victim. You’re not - at all.

The biggest example of how Leafs players are viewed on here is Phil Kessel. During his whole time in Toronto fans of other teams called him fat and out of shape, yet Leafs fans were always defending him. Plus I lost count how many times his trade from Boston to Toronto was brought up since they loved to mention how Brian Burke traded Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton, when the reality is they traded 1st round picks in 2010 and 2011 which Boston used to select them. Since Kessel was traded to Pittsburgh all of the sudden he's loved by a lot more people on here and some of them actually said how Leafs fans never appreciated him and wanted him traded. The reality was Leafs fans knew they needed a culture change and Kessel had to be traded for that reason and not because of how he played for them.