Proposal: Tampa-Detroit

[19 for president]

I don't think Hronek for Sergachev is a terrible idea, and while I think Sergachev is the better player I don't think it makes up for the bigger difference in Zadina + 1 Mil for a conditional 3rd.

Hronek with eating 1 mil is close to value for Sergachev. They are similar in age, and both have been on similar point paces (obviously you factor in Hronek IT and Sergachevs quality of team/ linemates). And again while I think Sergachev is better, RD are always at a premium in this league, and Hronek has the better contract.

From a Wings standpoint, I probably don't do this now as we have 3+ really solid LD in the system right now in Edvidsson, Johannson, and Wallinder. We've spent a lot of draft capital on LD dman and I don't think it makes sense to trade for the more expensive guy at this point, with how those guys in particular have been developing. I like having the RD depth with Hronek and Seider.

Wings need competent centers, and that's where any trades should be focused.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I don't think Hronek for Sergachev is a terrible idea, and while I think Sergachev is the better player I don't think it makes up for the bigger difference in Zadina + 1 Mil for a conditional 3rd.

Hronek with eating 1 mil is close to value for Sergachev. They are similar in age, and both have been on similar point paces (obviously you factor in Hronek IT and Sergachevs quality of team/ linemates). And again while I think Sergachev is better, RD are always at a premium in this league, and Hronek has the better contract.

From a Wings standpoint, I probably don't do this now as we have 3+ really solid LD in the system right now in Edvidsson, Johannson, and Wallinder. We've spent a lot of draft capital on LD dman and I don't think it makes sense to trade for the more expensive guy at this point, with how those guys in particular have been developing. I like having the RD depth with Hronek and Seider.

Wings need competent centers, and that's where any trades should be focused.

Exactly. I'd add that QoC% for Hronek has been high (1st pair...but really he's by himself)

While Serg. has been sheltered on mostly 3rd behind Hedman & McD.

Again:

Eerily similar stats. Not saying they're equal players, or stylistically the same, just interesting.

Hronek, since his rookie yr. 2 season ago, has played w/o any Top4 Dmen & the corpse of Mike Green on lottery team/ cap era historically bad rosters.

Sergachev, since his rookie yr., on a perpetual juggernaut 2x SC champ.


granted Hronek has more TOI, but also much higher QoC%...offset by TB's PP & 5on5 attack + roster.


86p/178gp = .483 $4.4m Hronek RFA in '24 offseason.

142p/294gp = .482 $4.8m Serg. is 28lbs heavier, 3" taller & 7mos. younger. RFA in '23 offseason.


I think Yzerman banks on Hronek & Zadina outproducing Serg., certainly will cost more $ next season, but huge risk letting Zadina go.

What's Sergachev gonna demand in salary/term in '23 ? $8m+ ? $7.5+ ? ...at least $6.5-7+

Based on this, Yzerman should say No. Selling 2 good pieces @ Buy-Low for 1 very good piece @ Market/High Value (will cost ~$7+ in offseason) isn't conducive good Cap Mgmt. Yzerman is a Master Capologist, Trader & Drafter. Wings politely decline.

 

[McJedi]

Saw the basis for this idea floated by a couple posters in another thread. If Tampa was looking at moving Sergachev, and Detroit had interest, would something around Serg for Hronek+Zadina be possible? Perhaps:

TBL
Hronek(1 mil retained)
Zadina

Detroit
Sergachev
'23 cond. 3rd(becomes a '24 2nd if Tampa makes the SCF in '22 or '23

Thanks for any constructive comments!

Tampa. Wow. Big L on this trade.

Detroit should say yes.

 

[Byrddog]

While it is true that Sergi has played 3rd pair it is a stretch to say he was sheltered. The true analysis is that He can not beat out Mac or Heddy to play top 4. This does not change the fact that we are going to have to move him. Why because we can not afford to resign him Cernak and Cirelli and since he is stuck depth wise it is logical. I mean I would love to keep him but not to play 3rd pair at the $$$$ he will be getting. We are already overpaying Cirelli and a decision is going to have to be made on him as well. Now does Stevie Y have interest is the question? I doubt it he is rebuilding Detroit like he did Tampa both fan bases are inpatient to this but his plan worked in Tampa now JBB is going to be the GM that sees the decline due to CAP.

I do not see Detroit as a good fit for a Sergi trade, they want t keep there young talented guys and make no mistake Sergi is being looked at as top 4 by many GM's one will pony up a package that makes $$$ sense for the Bolts.

 

[rod]

Asking for Raymond if serg is involved

Your trippin bud, there's no way that's happening!

 

[HoseEmDown]

What does this solve for Tampa, other than making a small subset of fans happy who are complaining about him taking penalties?

This spreads the money on defense out better, we aren't loaded up on one side and weak on the other. Hedman and McDonagh ain't going anywhere and we need another good RD. McDonagh can cover up the defensive issues that Hronek has and allow him to bring the offense we lack on D. Zadina is a highly skilled young forward which we lack, nobody with legit top 6 abilities. He can provide scoring to the top 6 now and when Kucherov gets back more depth in the top 9. He'll push Perry or Maroon back to the 4th line where they belong.

Giving up Sergachev will be tough because I think there's more to his game but I don't think that will show in the situation he's in. Sometimes you make a trade that also benefits the guy you're trading and this will do that for Sergachev. Plus we need cap space. Hronek retained instead of Sergachev might allow us to bring Palat back next season, we also don't have to worry about overpaying him in 2 years. Zadina should be able to be retained cheap unless he has a monster breakout.

 

[JTBF81]

While it is true that Sergi has played 3rd pair it is a stretch to say he was sheltered. The true analysis is that He can not beat out Mac or Heddy to play top 4. This does not change the fact that we are going to have to move him. Why because we can not afford to resign him Cernak and Cirelli and since he is stuck depth wise it is logical. I mean I would love to keep him but not to play 3rd pair at the $$$$ he will be getting. We are already overpaying Cirelli and a decision is going to have to be made on him as well. Now does Stevie Y have interest is the question? I doubt it he is rebuilding Detroit like he did Tampa both fan bases are inpatient to this but his plan worked in Tampa now JBB is going to be the GM that sees the decline due to CAP.

I do not see Detroit as a good fit for a Sergi trade, they want t keep there young talented guys and make no mistake Sergi is being looked at as top 4 by many GM's one will pony up a package that makes $$$ sense for the Bolts.

Serg would definitely be a top 4 in Detroit(as well as quite a few other places). Cirelli isn't overpaid much, if at all(maybe 300-400k), and he's off to one of the best starts of any player on the team. I actually doubt Tampa really moves one of the 3, but Serg does seem like the most likely if it does happen. Tampa will probably fit them again, if that's the plan, but it will cost them any chance of keeping Killorn past next season. So, if Tampa wants to re-sign Killorn, one of the 3 likely needs to go. I don't see JBB moving Serg without somewhat of an overpay coming back though, regardless of where he might be moved. Hose explained how this particular trade would help Tampa both now and in the future, so I won't rehash what he said.

 

[JTBF81]

Tampa. Wow. Big L on this trade.

Detroit should say yes.

Disagree, it's far from a "Big L for Tampa." It could be argued that Tampa is losing the most valuable individual piece, but a trade like addresses a couple of weaknesses the team currently has and balances out the $ on the defense. It also saves Tampa money down the line, which, given Tampa's upcoming cap decisions, will also be helpful in potentially keeping at least one of Palat/Killorn.

 

[deca guard]

Disagree, it's far from a "Big L for Tampa." It could be argued that Tampa is losing the most valuable individual piece, but a trade like addresses a couple of weaknesses the team currently has and balances out the $ on the defense. It also saves Tampa money down the line, which, given Tampa's upcoming cap decisions, will also be helpful in potentially keeping at least one of Palat/Killorn.

in addition zadina hasnt had enough games to show his ceiling . plus is the type offensive weapon that needs to play on a talented unit that creates space and chances for him because he cant do that himself . but like he did on talented jrs team , if he were on the talented tbay he could be 'filling lots of nets ' . and it nots like hronek is a bottom pairing guy , hes a solid #4 on a cup runner . in addition sergachev has always had a heck of a safety net because of all the tbay talent and goalie so might be looking better than is . to me this is feasible from both sides , and acutally more risky for detroit because zadina could seriously improve ands been showing a good work ethic when opponant has the puck making him a factor all 200'

 

[JTBF81]

in addition zadina hasnt had enough games to show his ceiling . plus is the type offensive weapon that needs to play on a talented unit that creates space and chances for him because he cant do that himself . but like he did on talented jrs team , if he were on the talented tbay he could be 'filling lots of nets ' . and it nots like hronek is a bottom pairing guy , hes a solid #4 on a cup runner . in addition sergachev has always had a heck of a safety net because of all the tbay talent and goalie so might be looking better than is . to me this is feasible from both sides , and acutally more risky for detroit because zadina could seriously improve ands been showing a good work ethic when opponant has the puck making him a factor all 200'

Yes, it's a bit risky for the Wings if Zadina really breaks out afterwards. If Tampa was more interested in a straight rental as part of the deal, maybe they might try for Fabbri retained instead+Hronek(1 mil retained)for Sergachev+. I don't know how Fabbri is being viewed as a trade piece(if Detroit is even interested), plus this would require more retention from Detroit and then Tampa likely having to have a 3rd team eat the remains ~750k @50% additional. It would be complicated to be sure and more of an all in push for this year(at least in regards to the F coming back, which is why Zadina would probably be preferred by some).

 

[Byrddog]

Serg would definitely be a top 4 in Detroit(as well as quite a few other places). Cirelli isn't overpaid much, if at all(maybe 300-400k), and he's off to one of the best starts of any player on the team. I actually doubt Tampa really moves one of the 3, but Serg does seem like the most likely if it does happen. Tampa will probably fit them again, if that's the plan, but it will cost them any chance of keeping Killorn past next season. So, if Tampa wants to re-sign Killorn, one of the 3 likely needs to go. I don't see JBB moving Serg without somewhat of an overpay coming back though, regardless of where he might be moved. Hose explained how this particular trade would help Tampa both now and in the future, so I won't rehash what he said.

I can't see us holding Sergi back b hind Mac and Heddy on that side. While I agree we will get good return on Sergi do not look for overpayment. The Cap is what it is and will be for a couple more years. All one has to do is look at Seth I need who was stuck on the 3rd pair in Nashville. He goes to Columbus and is 1st pair, Sergi is in the same vein. I would hope he brings a couple yalent d young forwards that will be cost controlled.

 

[JTBF81]

I can't see us holding Sergi back b hind Mac and Heddy on that side. While I agree we will get good return on Sergi do not look for overpayment. The Cap is what it is and will be for a couple more years. All one has to do is look at Seth I need who was stuck on the 3rd pair in Nashville. He goes to Columbus and is 1st pair, Sergi is in the same vein. I would hope he brings a couple yalent d young forwards that will be cost controlled.

Or bring back an RD talent to address the team's biggest need+a talented young F. If the RD is more of an NHl ready prospect type rather than an established player like Hronek, than the additions to Serg would be different. The proposed trade does favor Tampa, but if Tampa looked to move Serg, a team with cap space and looking for a top 4 LD would be ideal. Detroit isn't the only team that could fit this profile, L.A. and a few others could also make good trade partners.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Or bring back an RD talent to address the team's biggest need+a talented young F. If the RD is more of an NHl ready prospect type rather than an established player like Hronek, than the additions to Serg would be different. The proposed trade does favor Tampa, but if Tampa looked to move Serg, a team with cap space and looking for a top 4 LD would be ideal. Detroit isn't the only team that could fit this profile, L.A. and a few others could also make good trade partners.

I wonder if Neal Pionk could be available in a straight trade.

 

[Go Wings]

So let me see if I get this correct.

Detroit tradea Hronek and Zadina for Sergachev to help solve their hole on LD, which it would as Sergachev is a good defensmen.

But they create a hole on RD and on the wing on the 2nd line in the process.

This trade doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Detroit. Fixing one problem by creating 2 more.

 

[WaW]

Yeah right... give us that unprotected 1st rounder in '22 or '23 and then we'll talk.

It's funny because you seem to think a Wings fan proposed this trade...

Look again

 

[GreytWun]

Asking for Raymond if serg is involved

Asking for Kuch if Raymond is involved.

see we can make dumb proposals too.

 

[Ingvar]

I like Sergachev but I don’t think it’s a good trade for Detroit. Swapping Hronek for Sergachev creates a hole on RD rather than LD and selling Zadina right now would be selling low so no reason to do that. Detroit also isn’t really in a position to sell defensemen.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Asking for Raymond if serg is involved

Raymond>>>>>Sergachev, We don't need Sergachev with Johansson, Edvinsson and McIsaac/Wallinder in the LD pipeline.

 

[Hammettf2b]

We have enough LD in the pipeline (albeit they prob wont be as good as Serg) that giving up a RD and winger just doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

I don't hate this at all, but I don't like the idea of trading Sergachev right now. I think he'd have more value in a year, I'd bank on him having a career-best season in a contract year. We'd have more clarity in a year on what our extensions will look like as well.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Yes, it's a bit risky for the Wings if Zadina really breaks out afterwards. If Tampa was more interested in a straight rental as part of the deal, maybe they might try for Fabbri retained instead+Hronek(1 mil retained)for Sergachev+. I don't know how Fabbri is being viewed as a trade piece(if Detroit is even interested), plus this would require more retention from Detroit and then Tampa likely having to have a 3rd team eat the remains ~750k @50% additional. It would be complicated to be sure and more of an all in push for this year(at least in regards to the F coming back, which is why Zadina would probably be preferred by some).

so, is this Zadina+Fabbri?

 

[JTBF81]

so, is this Zadina+Fabbri?

No, the basis would either be Serg for Hronek+Zadina, or Serg for Hronek+Fabbri, with Tampa adding of course to balance it out. Tampa would have to figure out how much retention would be needed to make the cap work, plus decide if they wanted to try for the UFA Fabbri or the more team controlled Zadina. Tampa would need to add a bit more than what was initially proposed, but if this trade was actually serious, I'm sure Tampa would add what was needed to get who they wanted.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

No, the basis would either be Serg for Hronek+Zadina, or Serg for Hronek+Fabbri, with Tampa adding of course to balance it out. Tampa would have to figure out how much retention would be needed to make the cap work, plus decide if they wanted to try for the UFA Fabbri or the more team controlled Zadina. Tampa would need to add a bit more than what was initially proposed, but if this trade was actually serious, I'm sure Tampa would add what was needed to get who they wanted.

as a STL fan, I'd prefer Z and Hronek. Fabbri , while talented, doesn't have a complete game in him

 

[Tetsuo]

Wings fan rushing down to Tampa to disconnect the phone line before they can take it back. I like both players but getting a top 3 D of Seider, Sergachev and Edvinsson would be disgusting. Like that top 3 would hold up against any team in the world in a few years.

Asking for Raymond if serg is involved

Nope. Not gonna happen. Like the username though.

We have enough LD in the pipeline (albeit they prob wont be as good as Serg) that giving up a RD and winger just doesn't sit right with me.

Only Edvinsson looks like a reasonable bet to better at this point. I'm less concerned about handedness given that we have a 1RD for the next decade, that we can solve this issue by attracting a FA or more surprise development in this situation. Don't forget that Wallinder primarily plays RD even though he's a left shot.