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Take off Letang for Bennett on first PP unit?

Fordy said:
I'm not talking statwise, I'm talking the way they actually looked and functioned. The PP was what bailed them out for years. They could win any game or come back from any deficit because the PP was unstoppable. I don't care where they are statistically this year, it's been the reason we've lost more times then the reason we've won.

Honestly I don't remember the last time the PP won us a game.
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I'm not really sure how you can say that a 20% PP wins more games than a 27% PP.
 
Bennett is not Letang's replacement. I don't want a rookie forward on the point when he makes his PP money on the wall.

We could however play Niskanen there, because he doesn't take the kind of chances Letang does and can actually hit the goal on a one timer. Getting a bit more PP production out of him would also increase his trade value for when that eventually happens, as it should.
 
Fordy said:
I'm not talking statwise, I'm talking the way they actually looked and functioned. The PP was what bailed them out for years. They could win any game or come back from any deficit because the PP was unstoppable. I don't care where they are statistically this year, it's been the reason we've lost more times then the reason we've won.

Honestly I don't remember the last time the PP won us a game.
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Our inability to score on the power play has cost us quite a few games over the past several years. Its no big secret and has been well documented of our struggles to score with the extra man, so in this isolated instance, the statistics are, in fact, quite telling.
 
Bennett and Letang will never play the same positions on the PP, as Letang typically plays the point. Bennett should be on the left wall, Martin should be on the left point, Geno should be on the right point, Sid on the right wall, Neal down low/slot.
 
JTG said:
Bennett and Letang will never play the same positions on the PP, as Letang typically plays the point. Bennett should be on the left wall, Martin should be on the left point, Geno should be on the right point, Sid on the right wall, Neal down low/slot.
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Agree. At least in the future. Right now Kunitz is producing and competing in a way that makes it justifiable that he is there, I think. Would like for Bennett to get a few more, and longer, shifts though.
 
Tender Rip said:
Agree. At least in the future. Right now Kunitz is producing and competing in a way that makes it justifiable that he is there, I think. Would like for Bennett to get a few more, and longer, shifts though.
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The thing with Kunitz's production is that he's been doing his damage at ES. He has some PP points, but aside from Sid, he has the most ESP of anyone on the team.

That RH on the left wall is crucial. Especially one who can shoot and set up plays.
 
Tender Rip said:
Bennett is not Letang's replacement. I don't want a rookie forward on the point when he makes his PP money on the wall.

We could however play Niskanen there, because he doesn't take the kind of chances Letang does and can actually hit the goal on a one timer. Getting a bit more PP production out of him would also increase his trade value for when that eventually happens, as it should.
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But we aren't even playing a "left point/right point" PP right now, TR, we're playing a diamond. As long as we continue using Martin as the last man back, then we have it pretty well covered. There may be a few gaffes on rotations, but Bennett's looked smart enough to manage the risk part-time.

For the record, I'm not advocating BB taking over a 1st unit spot permanently 6 games into his NHL caree, but I think he's shown enough to see some more time there. The Nisky idea ain't bad either.
 
Tender Rip said:
Bennett is not Letang's replacement. I don't want a rookie forward on the point when he makes his PP money on the wall.

We could however play Niskanen there...
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Agreed on both counts. And I'll throw in another: Dustin Jeffrey. And no, I don't think Jeffrey is ideal to replace Letang because it's good to have the right-hand shot there; but at least we're talking about a player in DJ who has extensive experience at playing the point on the PP (unlike BB).


I am totally fine with Letang's performance. Heck, before 10 games ago, Paul Martin wasn't even a fixture on our PP unit. A lot is changing and guys will adjust and get better. As long as we have Malkin back with his shot, we'll be just fine. Letang may not have that huge shot, but you don't need 2 huge point shots on the PP to be successful (most teams have only one at a time). Let's just chill on this issue. It is far from our biggest problem.
 
Fordy said:
I'm not talking statwise, I'm talking the way they actually looked and functioned. The PP was what bailed them out for years. They could win any game or come back from any deficit because the PP was unstoppable. I don't care where they are statistically this year, it's been the reason we've lost more times then the reason we've won.

Honestly I don't remember the last time the PP won us a game.
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I do. It was on Sunday against TB. Bennett's PP goal stood as the game winner. :)
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper said:
But we aren't even playing a "left point/right point" PP right now, TR, we're playing a diamond.
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Oh please Peeper (stop changing your user name every five minutes!) :). For the vast majority of the time on the first unit, we have two blueliners back there - with them changing positions just like Sid and Malkin. Then Letang pushes up a little further on the left side than Martin to allow Geno to move off the wall toward the point, and to free himself up for the one timers that never arrive. 'Diamond' is just a word. It is a minor, minor adjustment from what we traditionally do, IMO, and Letang is still a hell of a lot more of a defensive insurance against breakaways than Bennett would be.

In any case, I much prefer having two blueliners on the PP, because otherwise we turn into a breakaway gong show more often than not.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper said:
For the record, I'm not advocating BB taking over a 1st unit spot permanently 6 games into his NHL caree, but I think he's shown enough to see some more time there. The Nisky idea ain't bad either.
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He can see more time there by simply cutting Kunitz shifts a bit shorter though. Or he can get the nod once or twice per game. No problem. But as much as people want to talk up his performances, the great thing about Bennett so far is not what he has done, it is that he hasn't sucked at all. It is a process, as it should be.
 
Jacques G said:
I'm not really sure how you can say that a 20% PP wins more games than a 27% PP.
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Eh, it's not that unreasonable. Comes down to consistency and scoring timely goals when the game is on the line.

For instance, (I'll bump that up to a 30% PP for ease of math) the 30% PP unit could do a lot of its damage in one blowout win, going 3 for 5 in a 6-1 win, but then go 0 for 5 in the second game in a 2-1 loss. At the end of two games, it's operating at a 30% efficiency.

Meanwhile, the 20% PP could consistently score 1 goal in each of the two games, going 1 for 5 in both games, contributing to a 3-2 win and a 4-3 win, where that 1 goal was the difference in each score. Yet at the end of the two games, it's operating at a 20% efficiency.

Small sample size, but that's an example of how the 20% PP unit was more reliable than the 27% (in my example the 30% unit) PP because it showed up when the team badly needed the PP to be the difference in the score.
 
The percentage thing is really a weird discussion.... Over a larger sample size you go with the percentages every time, and in a situation where we have a PP goal in what.... 12 straight games...(?) the minor warts we have are very, very small issues for this team.

Back in 07-08 we had a very good PP also, and we did during the cup season also when Gonchar was healthy, but I doubt anyone really remembers the times they didn't come through in the crunch.
Also, back then we were as likely to give up short handed goals as we are now (or last season rather, as we haven't done it quite as much this season, although we look likely to often enough).
 
How many pp points per athlete?

We need some data.l Martin has arrived. We still need a right hand shot on the left circle. Letang is fine there. Let Nisky QB the last 30 seconds and put Bennett on left circle since 87/71 like to extend their pp shifts.
 
Sidney the Kidney said:
Eh, it's not that unreasonable. Comes down to consistency and scoring timely goals when the game is on the line.

For instance, (I'll bump that up to a 30% PP for ease of math) the 30% PP unit could do a lot of its damage in one blowout win, going 3 for 5 in a 6-1 win, but then go 0 for 5 in the second game in a 2-1 loss. At the end of two games, it's operating at a 30% efficiency.

Meanwhile, the 20% PP could consistently score 1 goal in each of the two games, going 1 for 5 in both games, contributing to a 3-2 win and a 4-3 win, where that 1 goal was the difference in each score. Yet at the end of the two games, it's operating at a 20% efficiency.

Small sample size, but that's an example of how the 20% PP unit was more reliable than the 27% (in my example the 30% unit) PP because it showed up when the team badly needed the PP to be the difference in the score.
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Yeah, I had actually considered that last night after I logged out.

Tender Rip said:
The percentage thing is really a weird discussion.... Over a larger sample size you go with the percentages every time, and in a situation where we have a PP goal in what.... 12 straight games...(?) the minor warts we have are very, very small issues for this team.

Back in 07-08 we had a very good PP also, and we did during the cup season also when Gonchar was healthy, but I doubt anyone really remembers the times they didn't come through in the crunch.
Also, back then we were as likely to give up short handed goals as we are now (or last season rather, as we haven't done it quite as much this season, although we look likely to often enough).
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Absolutely.
 
If anyone thinks Letang should be let out on that powerplay at the current moment, they have not watched games.

Letang is probably the most seriously skilled 5-on-5 defenseman in hockey...take one opponent away, and he turns into a sped. I will never understand it.
 
It would be interesting to see what PP units are the most "clutch" as in scoring game tying/winning goals or 3rd period goals. Also interesting when you compare the top teams units, where Anaheim has the #2 pct. and Chicago has the #13. Guess it's not surprising that strong ES play will put you at the top of the league. The Pens can learn from this, when your top goal scorer hasn't been a big factor ES.
 
I'm not opposed to BB being used there, but what about this novel idea:

instead of Letang just being replaced on the PP permanently, how about you demote him after he makes one of those stupid mistakes, instead of allowing it to get to this point where people want to (rightfully) bench one of the most dynamic players in the league?

(unrelated: anyone else think Letang looks a step slower since coming back from injury?)
 
IcedCapp said:
I'm not opposed to BB being used there, but what about this novel idea:

instead of Letang just being replaced on the PP permanently, how about you demote him after he makes one of those stupid mistakes, instead of allowing it to get to this point where people want to (rightfully) bench one of the most dynamic players in the league?

(unrelated: anyone else think Letang looks a step slower since coming back from injury?)
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Yup. He use to be able to pinch and cheat more at the blue line because he could likely catch all but the fastest skaters if it caused a breakaway. I definitely thought he looked sluggish against FLA.
 
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