Swedish media: Finland has surpassed Sweden in hockey

[BalticWarrior]

I believe it's number 1 in Latvia too.

You are correct

 

[mattihp]

Well Elder has more points and mostly better defensive stats, so please explain

Well. The difference in points is extremely small and these two kids can actually skate and edge out opponents by using their smarts.

 

[AB13]

Well. The difference in points is extremely small and these two kids can actually skate and edge out opponents by using their smarts.

So can Edler, and his all round game is more polished with less weaknesses. They might become better than Edler but they aren't now. Edler had more points in 56 games than Heiskanen and Lindell did in 82, so it is a huge difference.

 

[jfc64]

Sorry guys, I let both Dahlin and Heiskanen out of top 12 defenders. The question is how we (Sweden) get more "finnish" sisu out of our team each WC. I can think we had that in 1991 etc. but not as often as Finland do. In 2017 and 2018 our defense simply was good enough to win. This year was a little uncontrolled. Also, the number of drafted players seem to reflect the difference in population with a slight advantage to Finland in drafted players per million inhabitants.

2018: 30-16 (Sweden-Finland)
2017: 27-23
2016: 25-15

total: 82-54 (10.05-5.56 million inhabitants respectively)

Russia? 55 drafted in 2016-18 on 143 million inhabitants...
Canada 242 drafted on 37 million. 20% worse than Sweden...

Conclusion: Finland and Sweden are the best hockey countries!

Correction: Finland is the best hockey country but Canada have the best players. But if Finland can count in 7 Mikko Rantanen (reflecting less inhabitants) and 7 Aho's and 7 Kakko the thing is different. 7 Heiskanens and Lindell would be nice, too. This is of course not realistic. Hockey in Canada has no competition and the talents are easily absorbed by the system. Not so much in Sweden where competition is stiffer with other sports.

 

[FinPanda]

Sweden dominated Finland head to head in junior hockey this year, no?

U17 and U16 sure. U20/U18 are quite close I think.

I looked it and:
U16 was 3-2 wins for Finland (7-6 fin, 3-2 fin, 5-3 fin, 1-3 swe, 1-4 swe)
U17 was 4-2 wins for Sweden (2-1 swe, 3-5 fin, 2-4 fin, 6-1 swe, 7-1 swe and 6-3 swe)
U18 was 2-1 wins for Finland (4-1 fin, 3-4 swe and 6-3 fin)
U20 was 3-2 wins for Sweden (5-3 swe, 3-0 swe, 2-1 swe, 3-4 fin and 0-4 fin)

If you count only 2019, U16 and U17 are both 2-0 for Sweden. U18 and U20 games are in random order.

 

[Lepardi]

Also, the number of drafted players seem to reflect the difference in population with a slight advantage to Finland in drafted players per million inhabitants.

Why would you compare the number of drafted players to the country's population instead of comparing it to the number of hockey players in each country?

 

[NyQuil]

Hockey in Canada has no competition and the talents are easily absorbed by the system. Not so much in Sweden where competition is stiffer with other sports.

I think this is a bit strong.

We still produce professional athletes in baseball and are contributing more basketball players every year.

We also have the Canadian Football League which has Canadian citizen minimums on team rosters.

And while we suck at soccer, it doesn't stop Canadians from playing it a lot.

We do fairly well at the Olympics and ice hockey only accounts for two medals.

 

[stonec]

Sorry guys, I let both Dahlin and Heiskanen out of top 12 defenders. The question is how we (Sweden) get more "finnish" sisu out of our team each WC. I can think we had that in 1991 etc. but not as often as Finland do.

Simple answer. Hire Jukka Jalonen as head coach, set up a team with only Euro players, organize a four week training camp, say no to any NHL players that want to join late in the process, rotate four pairs of defencemen, give every line equal amount of ice time, find a two meter tall scary guy and make him the captain.

Joking aside, there is some truth to above. The "sisu" I think came from the fact that the Finnish team were complete underdogs and were made fun of by the press before the tournament. I reckon they got their "sisu" from that underdog mentality and having the same roster practice together for four weeks. If we had gotten some late joining NHL players, there could have been a real risk of team dynamics breaking down and lowered "sisu" as a consequence.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Nah, Sweden is still superior. This is probably the best generation in Finlad's history..

 

[Lepardi]

Nah, Sweden is still superior. This is probably the best generation in Finlad's history..

The upcoming generation is probably the best in Finland's history, but world champions Marko Anttila, Harri Pesonen, Veli-Matti Savinainen, Atte Ohtamaa, Juhani Tyrväinen, Miika Koivisto and Jere Sallinen are not a part of that generation. They were born between 1985 and 1990, a timespan that was absolutely godawful for Finnish player production. Lauri Korpikoski has the most NHL points among all Finns born in that 6-year timespan: 201.

 

[jfc64]

I think this is a bit strong. We still produce professional athletes in baseball and are contributing more basketball players every year. We also have the Canadian Football League which has Canadian citizen minimums on team rosters. And while we suck at soccer, it doesn't stop Canadians from playing it a lot. We do fairly well at the Olympics and ice hockey only accounts for two medals.

But the hockey is a strong power I guess. And a winter sport. When I think of Canada I think of COLD weather. And of course you're right! But the heroes youngsters look up to I guess might be Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Lindros, X-by, McK, Stamkos and McD.

 

[jfc64]

Why would you compare the number of drafted players to the country's population instead of comparing it to the number of hockey players in each country?

That's one way to do it!

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The upcoming generation is probably the best in Finland's history, but world champions Marko Anttila, Harri Pesonen, Veli-Matti Savinainen, Atte Ohtamaa, Juhani Tyrväinen, Miika Koivisto and Jere Sallinen are not a part of that generation. They were born between 1985 and 1990, a timespan that was absolutely godawful for Finnish player production. Lauri Korpikoski has the most NHL points among all Finns born in that 6-year timespan: 201.

90s kids picked up where the 70s left off.

 

[MMANumminen]

Hard to argue with stats, even though they don’t tell the whole story. But even comparing f*cking Heiskanen to Dahlin is nothing short of a joke.

Chill down little brother. Heiskanen owns your wimpy dman

 

[sr edler]

Barkov, aho, laine, rantanen, Teravainen
(soon kakko). Our only young stars are dahlin and pettersson.

The rest of star swedes in NHL are aging. Hedman, karlsson backstrom.

William Nylander's 2 years younger than Teräväinen and still has time to blossom out in the NHL.

 

[AB13]

Chill down little brother. Heiskanen owns your wimpy dman

With less hits, worse defensive stats in every category and 11 less points, a worse +- and being one year older? No, Heiskanen doesn’t own anyone. Dahlin owns Heiskanen, but even comparing them makes you look dumb.

And by the way, Finland is the little brother. Sweden have 11 WC golds and 47 medals, Finland 3 golds and 13 medals. Sweden have 2 Olympic golds and 8 medals, Finland have 0 Olympic golds and 6 medals. In recent history, Sweden have more titles too, more NHL stars, more drafted players and more medals in every tournament.

 

[jfc64]

Chill down little brother. Heiskanen owns your wimpy dman

Equally good imo. But not as good as Lindell or Brodin yet.

PS. This might have been Team Sweden U20 defense corpse this coming JWC. A whole defense of firstrounders! If we talk defenders with promise (draft number in parenthesis, projections see link below) now when Hedman and Karlsson are so old!

2019 NHL Mock Draft - NHL - DraftSite.com

Rasmus Dahlin (1) - Tobias Björnfot (26, projected)
Rasmus Sandin (29) - Adam Boqvist (8)
Nils Lundqvist (28) - Broberg (12, projected)
Adam Ginning (50) - Victor Söderström (17, projected)
Filip Johansson (24)

 

[AB13]

Equally good imo. But not as good as Lindell or Brodin yet.

PS. This might have been Team Sweden U20 defense corpse this coming JWC. A whole defense of firstrounders! If we talk defenders with promise (draft number in parenthesis, projections see link below) now when Hedman and Karlsson are so old!

2019 NHL Mock Draft - NHL - DraftSite.com

Rasmus Dahlin (1) - Tobias Björnfot (26, projected)
Rasmus Sandin (29) - Adam Boqvist (8)
Nils Lundqvist (28) - Broberg (12, projected)
Adam Ginning (50) - Victor Söderström (17, projected)
Filip Johansson (24)

They are not equally good, and Dahlin crushes Brodin and Lindell at most parts of the game. Dahlin does everything better than Heiskanen and has better stats in almost every single offensive and defensive category. Dahlin is a generational defenceman and had one of the best rookie seasons by a defenceman ever. By the way, Sweden still produce better defencemen than any other country and have the likes of Brännström and Liljegren coming up too besides the ones you have already mentioned, and a few great ones in the 2020 draft

 

[AB13]

Sorry guys, I let both Dahlin and Heiskanen out of top 12 defenders. The question is how we (Sweden) get more "finnish" sisu out of our team each WC. I can think we had that in 1991 etc. but not as often as Finland do. In 2017 and 2018 our defense simply was good enough to win. This year was a little uncontrolled. Also, the number of drafted players seem to reflect the difference in population with a slight advantage to Finland in drafted players per million inhabitants.

2018: 30-16 (Sweden-Finland)
2017: 27-23
2016: 25-15

total: 82-54 (10.05-5.56 million inhabitants respectively)

Russia? 55 drafted in 2016-18 on 143 million inhabitants...
Canada 242 drafted on 37 million. 20% worse than Sweden...

Conclusion: Finland and Sweden are the best hockey countries!

Correction: Finland is the best hockey country but Canada have the best players. But if Finland can count in 7 Mikko Rantanen (reflecting less inhabitants) and 7 Aho's and 7 Kakko the thing is different. 7 Heiskanens and Lindell would be nice, too. This is of course not realistic. Hockey in Canada has no competition and the talents are easily absorbed by the system. Not so much in Sweden where competition is stiffer with other sports.

Sweden have less registered players than Finland though, so if you look at NHL players per registered player, Sweden is the best hockey country

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

With less hits, worse defensive stats in every category and 11 less points, a worse +- and being one year older? No, Heiskanen doesn’t own anyone. Dahlin owns Heiskanen, but even comparing them makes you look dumb.

And by the way, Finland is the little brother. Sweden have 11 WC golds and 47 medals, Finland 3 golds and 13 medals. Sweden have 2 Olympic golds and 8 medals, Finland have 0 Olympic golds and 6 medals. In recent history, Sweden have more titles too, more NHL stars, more drafted players and more medals in every tournament.

Finland have more gold medals in juniors.

 

[AB13]

Finland have more gold medals in juniors.

Still less medals and the difference is small and not absolutely huge like at men’s level. Sweden still are a much larger hockey nation regardless because of the men’s dominance

 

[karhukissa]

With less hits, worse defensive stats in every category and 11 less points, a worse +- and being one year older? No, Heiskanen doesn’t own anyone. Dahlin owns Heiskanen, but even comparing them makes you look dumb.

And by the way, Finland is the little brother. Sweden have 11 WC golds and 47 medals, Finland 3 golds and 13 medals. Sweden have 2 Olympic golds and 8 medals, Finland have 0 Olympic golds and 6 medals. In recent history, Sweden have more titles too, more NHL stars, more drafted players and more medals in every tournament.

dude chill. You remind me of old generation Finns which had bad hockey self-esteem.

Finland is surpassing Sweden in the future, but it's always going to be extremely close. Not a big deal.

 

[AB13]

dude chill. You remind me of old generation Finns which had bad hockey self-esteem.

Finland is surpassing Sweden in the future, but it's always going to be extremely close. Not a big deal.

It will never be close, Sweden will always dominate. Why would the finns become better? They produce a few top quality players but not many good or solid players, Sweden produce a deeper team and much better top quality defensemen along with promising forwards ( the finns do that at high quality but low amounts of players, a few players aren't enough), so why would the finns ever surpass Sweden for even a brief moment? To surpass historically, Finland needs 9 golds and 37 medals without Sweden winning one, and three olympic golds without Sweden winning a medal.

 

[jfc64]

They are not equally good, and Dahlin crushes Brodin and Lindell at most parts of the game. Dahlin does everything better than Heiskanen and has better stats in almost every single offensive and defensive category. Dahlin is a generational defenceman and had one of the best rookie seasons by a defenceman ever. By the way, Sweden still produce better defencemen than any other country and have the likes of Brännström and Liljegren coming up too besides the ones you have already mentioned, and a few great ones in the 2020 draft

So, if Elias Pettersson is the rookie of the year, Dahlin second and Heiskanen third, the difference between the two players will be refected in the differences you describe above?

PS. Who do you prefer of Dahlin and Kakko?

 

[AB13]

So, if Elias Pettersson is the rookie of the year, Dahlin second and Heiskanen third, the difference between the two players will be refected in the differences you describe above?

I guess, but Heiskanen wasn't even nominated for the rookie of the year, and for good reason. Pettersson, Dahlin and Binnington where the nominees. I do think Dahlin is and will be a better player, more complete and all round player than Kakko by some distance, but comparing defensemen and forwards is hard. I am a Rangers fan so I do love Kakko, but if the last two drafts where combined, i would pick Dahlin first, Hughes/ Kakko second and Hughes/ Kakko third.