Swayman Vs The Bruins

[TS Quint]

Swayman/Ullmark both are capable #1's it's not Swayman's fault he was part of the best tandem in the league. or are you assuming that Swayman is incapable of playing 60 games? he played 44 games last year, do you think he wouldn't be able to play those extra 16 games if needed to?

Read what I was replying to.

 

[Misko]

I don't think Swayman is greedy for trying to get what he thinks he is worth. Goalies are underrated and underpaid in todays NHL as is.

More importantly, I don't know why fans side with the team against players in situations like this, it's not like Swayman is a third string goalie trying to rob the team. He's their star starting goalie and the main reason they won a playoff round. He has the potential (if he isnt already there) to be a top 5 goalie in the league. If the team hopes to remain good with their aging core, Swayman is going to be their biggest piece to do that.

At the end of the day, teams want to pay their players as little as possible, and players want to make as much as possible, it's just the nature of the business. That being said though, players are the ones who bring all of the value to hockey and to their team. People come to watch the games because of the players and the play they bring to their team.

Also, sure, you can say that a player should take a discount to play for your team, but on what ground should they? The team trashed Swayman during arbitration, they haven't won much in the playoffs during his time, I don't imagine there is very much goodwill there. The Bruins traded away Ullmark and made Swayman the future of their goaltending before signing him to an extension, giving him all of the leverage. What is he supposed to do, take a pay cut despite the writing on the wall being that he's going to be their most important player? It's not the players job to build the team, its the teams job to anticipate what their players are worth, will be worth, and build the team accordingly. Players don't owe the team discounts, and even if you think they do, that's because the team and the NHL have successfully tried to build the narrative that players have to take paycuts to win, it's a narrative that only benefits the teams and owners and harms the players.

And keep in mind, a lot of the time when people point to players that have given discounts, like Hedman, Kucherov, Stamkos, etc, they play in markets that don't have income tax, or in the case of a player like Crosby, have decades of history and goodwill with the team. If Hedman played in LA, for example, he'd be signed to north of $11M a season just like Doughty has. If Kucherov played in a different market he'd probably be making north of $12M. It's not always a fair comparison.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Bruins management really do come off as incompetent greedy clowns.

If they really believed it was all the system, then why trade the cheaper Ullmark over the more expensive Swayman? Especially knowing the latter was an RFA and was going to be a difficult negotiation. Sweeny & Neely seem to be stuck in a different era thinking they still just bully players into a contract on their terms.

Whatever success the Bruins have managed seems to be in spite of their horrendous management.

 

[I Hate Philadelphia]

Bruins management really do come off as incompetent greedy clowns.

If they really believed it was all the system, then why trade the cheaper Ullmark over the more expensive Swayman? Especially knowing the latter was an RFA and was going to be a difficult negotiation. Sweeny & Neely seem to be stuck in a different era thinking they still just bully players into a contract on their terms.

Whatever success the Bruins have managed seems to be in spite of their horrendous management.

Bruins management "greedy"? Do you think Sweeney and Neely are paying the players out of their own pockets?

The Bruins always spend to the cap. Neely and Sweeney's job is to use that money wisely to field the best team, which includes not overpaying one player.

 

[Bruce Granville]

I don’t care how good the goalie is there’s gonna be years where they’re not worth the contract. plus even at their best they’re playing 55 games a year. Not where I’d put my money. And this is coming from a huge price fan.

55 games…but 55 minutes a game on average.
Not like skaters with 15-20 minutes…

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

I don't think Swayman is greedy for trying to get what he thinks he is worth. Goalies are underrated and underpaid in todays NHL as is.

I agree with a lot of what you said. But, star goalies are paid pretty fair right now? Seems most have signed bridge-prove it deals for 3-5 years and are now getting paid after proving themselves.

While I think Swayman should turn into a top 5 #1 goalie, he hasn't really proved as much as the guys before him that have been paid. That's my issue with it.

If he doesn't want $8/8 it seems kind of wild.

He'd be overpaid for ~2 years (Unproven), paid fairly for 3-4 years of it, then sure, maybe slightly underpaid the final ~2 years. Which all kind of balances out imo.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

55 games…but 55 minutes a game on average.
Not like skaters with 15-20 minutes…

Now take away the minutes where the puck is in offensive or neutral zones.

 

[JianYang]

publicly stating "i went to business school" during a negotiation
then being butthurt about an arbitration hearing is pure comedy.
what are they teaching in Orono? businesses feelings 101?

I'm kind of glad that Boston is taking this ground. Giving a monster contract to a goalie who has started around 40 games a year is a dangerous precedent and only further cannabilizes the income of the non-core players.

 

[PaulD]

If you are so out of touch with your player that you alienate him during arbitration, that's on you. Maybe Swayman should have a ticker skin, but he doesn't and that's how you have to deal with him. Being a hardass works a lot of the time, but at other times it doesn't.

neither does being a soft touch.....Swayman

 

[JianYang]

At least he shows more than his forehead.

Lmao. It's definitely one of those trivial pet peeves I have.

 

[Misko]

I agree with a lot of what you said. But, star goalies are paid pretty fair right now? Seems most have signed bridge-prove it deals for 3-5 years and are now getting paid after proving themselves.

While I think Swayman should turn into a top 5 #1 goalie, he hasn't really proved as much as the guys before him that have been paid. That's my issue with it.

If he doesn't want $8/8 it seems kind of wild.

He'd be overpaid for ~2 years (Unproven), paid fairly for 3-4 years of it, then sure, maybe slightly underpaid the final ~2 years. Which all kind of balances out imo.

It's hard to say what Boston has offered him and what he wants, since it's not clear and you can't take the Bruins at face value since they're also obviously trying to pressure Swayman and get the public on their side. There's no definitive way of knowing what they have actually offered him.

Even if he was offered 8x8, if he signed it, and he is and becomes a Top 5 goalie in the league, making 8M he'd only be in the Top 70 in the league in pay. There's a lot of players in that Top 70 who are objectively worse players than Swayman, and many who'd be "equal" but make more than 8M. Considering goalies are the teams most important player but historically underpaid when compared to skaters, this might be part of the discrepancy in his eyes and why he and Shesterkin might be trying to reset the goalie market.

Obviously to me, a normal person, 8x8M is a ludicrous amount of money, and every fan would probably bawk at someone turning that down, which is the reaction and feeling that teams and the NHL bank on for fans to have to try and pressure players to take paycuts, but in the context of his peers, Swayman probably believes he should be paid more than what Boston has offered him, which may or may not be 8x8. I personally think he'd be fairly paid at 8x8M, but based on his potential I do think he could be worth more, and I can't blame him for trying.

There's definitely an argument to be made too that if Swayman thinks he is worth more, he should take a shorter bridge deal for "less" to prove he is the real deal and then cash in on his next contract, but at the end of the day we aren't privy to the negotiations and shouldn't pretend that we are. Maybe Boston only wants to sign him to 8 years after trading Ullmark, and Swayman wants to be compensated accordingly. Maybe the team wanted a bridge but Swayman didn't, who knows, we definitely don't.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Love it

 

[RobsonStreet]

No Vezina
No playoff series win against a non-Leafs team
No full season of starts as the #1

Compared to Ullmark:

2021-22: Ullmark .917 Swayman .914
2022-23: Ullmark .938 Swayman .920
2023-24: Ullmark .915 Swayman .916

And that is with three seasons of Ullmark getting tougher starts than Swayman.

On what planet does that resume scream setting the market for goalie salary?

Bruins: we’re betting on Swayman anyway
Ullmark: wait, what
Swayman: alright, pay me
Bruins: wait, what

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Bruins: we’re betting on Swayman anyway
Ullmark: wait, what
Swayman: alright, pay me
Bruins: wait, what

It's not surprising for Boston to go with the 25 year old instead of the 31 year old.

Their offer is easily within in the range of fair.

 

[Canadian Finn]

At the end of the day, teams want to pay their players as little as possible, and players want to make as much as possible, it's just the nature of the business.

Dubas did his best to change that.

Pay your players absolutely as much as possible and try and be their buddy.

 

[Kegs]

Bruins management really do come off as incompetent greedy clowns.

If they really believed it was all the system, then why trade the cheaper Ullmark over the more expensive Swayman? Especially knowing the latter was an RFA and was going to be a difficult negotiation. Sweeny & Neely seem to be stuck in a different era thinking they still just bully players into a contract on their terms.

Whatever success the Bruins have managed seems to be in spite of their horrendous management.

Curious to know how much you think they should be paying swayman ?

 

[GKJ]

It’s definitely tremendous content.

When this gets done though, and he signs for 8 years, he’s gotta put it all the way behind him.

 

[Score08]

Experience with how negotiations go during arbitration and conciliation in several fields. It's always the same. Union side, Exaggerate and compare self to X. Company side, tell the workers why they are worth less than they think, usually in very insulting terms and tell them they are lucky they have a job at all, take it or leave it.

The younger and more testosterone fueled union stewards with an ego always take it more personally than the older seasoned union guys.

By all released accounts of negotiations, it's exactly the same in hockey. Players feel insulted and bad blood emerges. They have several articles in the past few years about how ugly arbitration gets these days and how it's crucial to avoid it in modern NHL

How many NHL arbitration cases you got under your belt?

 

[Armourboy]

I have no problem with players getting what they deserve, problem is Swayman is getting ahead of himself a little bit.

I think players, when given the opportunity, should reset the market, but you gotta be the right guy to do it. Swayman is not that guy, that guy is Shesterkin, he is the guy in the right situation with the right resume to be able to push the market forward for goalies, not a guy that has played half the games and had one decent playoff series.

Swayman trying to reset the market would be akin to Bedard signing a new deal based on this past season and expecting to set the market. He may be that good one day, but that man is not him, that man is named Connor McDavid.

Now if Swayman wants to sign a two to four year deal, put in good work playing 60 games a year for the next couple years he could be that guy or one of those guys, but with his current body of work it comes off as not only being a stretch but just flat out wrong.

If Boston is offering him anywhere North of 6.5 then he is being offered based on what he has proven so far. Yes you pay for potential sometimes, but potential from goalie isn't worth 4 extra million a season.

 

[centipede2233]

Steve valiquette was on the real kyper and Bourne show yesterday. Kyper asked him with bob winning a cup if star goalies are back in demand. Valiquette’s response, and who is connected in the nhl universe when it comes to anything goalie, said the #1 concern nhl teams had expressed this past summer was the depth of goaltending. Making sure you had 3/4/5 goalies in your system ready if need be. Valiquette also said and something I’ve been echoing on here, is that it doesn’t matter who is in net, if you don’t play good defence as a team, it won’t matter who your goalie is.

 

[GreeningOil]

If Swayman is this thin-skinned to not realize that's all part of negotiations, maybe the B's are right to not cave to his outrageous demands.

Everyday he just comes off like a bigger whiner.

The GM acted like a tool. A thinly veiled attempt to get the fans to turn against the guy and get him to question his own worth.

No matter the employer or the money involved, this negotiation has been conducted in bad faith.

 

[danpantz]

The GM acted like a tool. A thinly veiled attempt to get the fans to turn against the guy and get him to question his own worth.

No matter the employer or the money involved, this negotiation has been conducted in bad faith.

Neely is not the GM.

Swaymans camp started it all with the chiclets leaks. You start lobbing grenades through the media you can expect some return fire.

 

[RobsonStreet]

It's not surprising for Boston to go with the 25 year old instead of the 31 year old.

Their offer is easily within in the range of fair.

Bruins: our core is good but old so we’re signing the younger worse guy. That way we can be less good now when we’re good and less bad later when we’re bad.
Me, a non-Boston fan: wait, what

 

[danpantz]

Bruins: our core is good but old so we’re signing the younger worse guy. That way we can be less good now when we’re good and less bad later when we’re bad.
Me, a non-Boston fan: wait, what

Who makes up this old core you speak of?

 

[67 others]

How many NHL arbitration cases you got under your belt?

It's always the same bro. Regardless of profession