Suzuki vs Necas vs Thomas vs Hischier (2017 draft Center)

[Golden_Jet]

Someone using advanced statistics should know that you can't compare someone playing on the first line versus someone playing on the second line. 1st you cherry pick 5v5 stats, Why not actually compare orange to orange and compare them when they were both playing 1st line minutes? Is it this hard to understand?

I know he did really good as a first line player (I actually think he should be the first line center next year when Hughes come back. I know it won't happen though). I just want accurate advanced stats comparisons because those can be easily misleading if the parameters differs too much.

Advanced stats comparisons just doesn't work when the parameters differs from players to players. Hischier played most games on the 2nd line so @Golden_Jet can't just compare his whole year to centers who played all years on the first line. That's not how it works. The usage of a second line center is different than a 1st line center. Thats all i want yet some peoples are hating for no reasons.

Nico as a 2nd line center :

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Nico as 1st line center :

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

As I expected, Niko's stats aren't nearly as good as as a first liner than a 2nd liner. I knew that beforehand because in almost EVERY CASES ive seen, 2nd line players have inflated advanced statistics. But im happy to make @Golden_Jet laugh with my facts.

But as you said, he played great as a first liner, produced a lot more, yet his advanced stats regressed. So what was it, was he better or worse as a 1st liner? Advanced statistics never tell the whole story. You need to mix them with classic statistics and actual eye test to have the full picture.

lol keep coping dude.

 

[NikolaTesla]

lol keep coping dude.

Nice rebuttal.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Never understood why fans get so upset when their guy isn't picked especially like this when all 3 players are so close.

As a Devil fan I wouldn't trade Hischier for either of the other 2 but I completely understand Blues fans and Hab fans preferring to keep their guy.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Oh so advanced statistics are influenced by the team's overall success? What a surprise.

His underlying numbers improved in the 6 weeks after Jack went down compared to the 6 weeks prior. As did his production.

 

[Golden_Jet]

His underlying numbers improved in the 6 weeks after Jack went down compared to the 6 weeks prior. As did his production.

Also doesn’t Hischier match up against the teams #1 line at home, when NJ gets last change., even when Hughes is healthy.

On the road it’s the other coaches choice, for line matchups.

 

[Mrb1p]

Hischier led the team with 10 goals 22 points in 19 games after Jack went down - that's a 43 goal 95 point pace.

So basically what Suzuki did in real life.

No argument.

 

[Mrb1p]

Also doesn’t Hischier match up against the teams #1 line at home, when NJ gets last change., even when Hughes is healthy.

On the road it’s the other coaches choice, for line matchups.

Thats a good point, Suzuki doesn't have the luxury of having another line that draws matchup from him, so he has to carry the load defensively and offensively.

Thomas and Hischier have Schenn and Hughes, while Suzuki has Newhook.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Thats a good point, Suzuki doesn't have the luxury of having another line that draws matchup from him, so he has to carry the load defensively and offensively.

Thomas and Hischier have Schenn and Hughes, while Suzuki has Newhook.

No, at home, MSL can send out Suzuki against the third or 4th line if he wants.

 

[Mrb1p]

No, at home, MSL can send out Suzuki against the third or 4th line if he wants.

Yes but he doesn't do that, because Suzuki is his only defensively dependable line, basically. He starts the 2nd line against the 3rd or 4th line, and even then they get hemmed in.

 

[stl76]

Thats a good point, Suzuki doesn't have the luxury of having another line that draws matchup from him, so he has to carry the load defensively and offensively.

Thomas and Hischier have Schenn and Hughes, while Suzuki has Newhook.

And Suzuki has Dvorak and Evans doing all the defensive heavy lifting. Lol @ him carrying the load defensively, Dvorak and Evans are taking the defensive zone draws and big PK minutes.

 

[Mrb1p]

And Suzuki has Dvorak doing all the defensive heavy lifting. Lol @ him carrying the load defensively, Dvorak is taking the defensive zone draws and big PK minutes.

Dvorak only takes the draws because he's an ace faceoff specialist, not because he carries the defensive load.

Suzuki plays 3rd wave PK because he already plays the most minutes at 5v5, ES and he plays the whole 2 minutes of powerplay.

I'm not sure you're debating truthfully if youre trying to paint Suzuki as an offensive-specialist, lol.

 

[stl76]

Dvorak only takes the draws because he's an ace faceoff specialist, not because he carries the defensive load.

Suzuki plays 3rd wave PK because he already plays the most minutes at 5v5, ES and he plays the whole 2 minutes of powerplay.

I'm not sure you're debating truthfully if youre trying to paint Suzuki as an offensive-specialist, lol.

Suzuki played 16:01 ES. Thomas played 16:15 ES.

Thomas plays top PK minutes, significant PP time, and shoulders a heavy defensive load. Why can’t Suzuki?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I'm taking Suzuki as of right now and moving forward but as has been mentioned it is very close between him, Hiscier, and Thomas. You could vote for any of them and you would be right. Hischier and Thomas have proven more up to this point so that shouldn't be thrown out either. Necas shouldn't be in this poll. Might as well have Makar and Heiskenen in here since he's as much of a C as they are.

 

[Mrb1p]

Suzuki played 16:01 ES. Thomas played 16:15 ES.

Thomas plays top PK minutes, significant PP time, and shoulders a heavy defensive load. Why can’t Suzuki?

Suzuki plays 7 more seconds per game than Thomas.

Suzuki does shoulder a heavy defensive load, hes also asked to be the guy offensively. Hes just not on the first two waves of PK, as Evans-Armia may be the best PK duo in the league and Dvo is a FO specialist.

This is actually pretty funny that this is the angle people are taking to discredit Suzuki lol. Hes carrying this team on both sides of the ice and everyone who watches the Habs knows. Especially with his two challenged wingers stapled to him.

Also im not sure how much worth we should really put on PK play. Sure if its the Selke? The PK is the "easiest" thing to do in the NHL. You just have to want to do it. Im glad Suzuki doesnt play much there.

I guess I value it quite a bit less than durability and availability.

 

[robertmac43]

Close call between these 3. Went with Nico as he has been my fav out of the three to date. That being said both Thomas and Suzuki have really grown on me this year.

It will be interesting to see where this crop is at in another 2 to 3 seasons.

 

[bud12]

Suzuki and Thomas over Hischier

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

They’re all in the same tier

 

[Mrb1p]

They’re all in the same tier

Not sure Nico is in the same tier as Nick and Robert. Hes producing less, playing less and all these guys are A+ defensively.

 

[gary559]

Voted Hischier but Suzuki has the highest ceiling.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Not sure Nico is in the same tier as Nick and Robert. Hes producing less, playing less and all these guys are A+ defensively.

Lol now you’re straight up making things up

 

[Stealth JD]

Anyone taking Suzuki doesn’t watch enough of Thomas. RobTom it’s probably making team Canada next year; deservedly so.

 

[Mrb1p]

Lol now you’re straight up making things up

Hes played significantly less games than Suzuki, who has the 3rd longest iron man streak in the NHL.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

So basically what Suzuki did in real life.

No argument.

I don’t like using pace to evaluate a players overall worth because there’s no telling if the player would continue at that same pace over the long haul. However, to say Suzuki basically did that in real life is a joke. He had 30 goals which is nowhere near 43 goals.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Hes played significantly less games than Suzuki, who has the 3rd longest iron man streak in the NHL.

You’re acting like Nico played 20 games. He played 75 and averaged more ice time hence “plays more.”

 

[Mrb1p]

I don’t like using pace to evaluate a players overall worth because there’s no telling if the player would continue at that same pace over the long haul. However, to say Suzuki basically did that in real life is a joke. He had 30 goals which is nowhere near 43 goals.

He just got 89 points. Thats 6 points off.