Nico’s rel xG numbers are better than the team and Suzuki’s are worse.
Suzuki vs. Hischier
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Nico’s rel xG numbers are better than the team and Suzuki’s are worse.
It’s Hischier right now. Suzuki’s goals for production is way out of whack with his expected goals for and his shooting is at over 26% which of course will come down. I find it hard to make a case for Suzuki being a better player right now.
That said - I do think Suzuki and Caufield have broken some of the fancy metrics a bit this year - other than pure production they rate pretty average on a lot of advanced metrics and downright bad in some (Caufield’s GA and xGA). That said - by the eye test they certainly look dynamic. Again it’s impossible that their combined shooting percentage will remain as high as it is but I wonder if the way they play in the current Habs setup just isn’t conducive to be reflected in some of these metrics.
They are both smallish and they don’t rely on pure speed. But they are certainly quick and that applies equally to how they process the game. Among a land of giants they have a preternatural understanding of space and how to attack it and how to maneuver into the soft spots. They don’t dominate possession but rather seem to be able to generate high-percentage scoring plays at a moments notice - whether the Habs have been controlling the flow or not.
It’s definitely fun and I suspect some of the usual analytical metrics will start to catch up as the Habs get better - but I think they play in a rather distinctive way which may never be truly appreciated by some of the stats we use.
The Devils and Hischier on the other hand are just analytical darlings - and there’s nothing false about that either - it’s producing winning hockey. And it reminds a lot of the team that just won the Cup with a lot of the same strong suits.
That said - I do think Suzuki and Caufield have broken some of the fancy metrics a bit this year - other than pure production they rate pretty average on a lot of advanced metrics and downright bad in some (Caufield’s GA and xGA). That said - by the eye test they certainly look dynamic. Again it’s impossible that their combined shooting percentage will remain as high as it is but I wonder if the way they play in the current Habs setup just isn’t conducive to be reflected in some of these metrics.
They are both smallish and they don’t rely on pure speed. But they are certainly quick and that applies equally to how they process the game. Among a land of giants they have a preternatural understanding of space and how to attack it and how to maneuver into the soft spots. They don’t dominate possession but rather seem to be able to generate high-percentage scoring plays at a moments notice - whether the Habs have been controlling the flow or not.
It’s definitely fun and I suspect some of the usual analytical metrics will start to catch up as the Habs get better - but I think they play in a rather distinctive way which may never be truly appreciated by some of the stats we use.
The Devils and Hischier on the other hand are just analytical darlings - and there’s nothing false about that either - it’s producing winning hockey. And it reminds a lot of the team that just won the Cup with a lot of the same strong suits.
Mrb1p
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Hisch is a better 2-way C and Suzuki is a better offensive C with a bit less defense.
Bergeron to Datsyuk of our modern days, pick your poison.
NJ fans and MTL fans can rejoice that both are better than Pettersson
Hischier actually has a higher PDO and Suzukis % Shooting is boosted by his PP goal scoring, where he picks shots. Of course it is going to go down anyway, but you can look to his A2 and his PP production to go up as they are both very low.
Overall I think they are both 80-90 points guys from now on and both should be solid 2-way contributors.
Bergeron to Datsyuk of our modern days, pick your poison.
NJ fans and MTL fans can rejoice that both are better than Pettersson
Hischier actually has a higher PDO and Suzukis % Shooting is boosted by his PP goal scoring, where he picks shots. Of course it is going to go down anyway, but you can look to his A2 and his PP production to go up as they are both very low.
Overall I think they are both 80-90 points guys from now on and both should be solid 2-way contributors.
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Kudo Shinichi
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23p in 32 playoff games is a 59 point pace. It's not terrible but nothing to write home about.
Kudo Shinichi
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They are great numbers for when he did it. He averaged a pace of 18 goals and 53 pts his first 2 nhl seasons. In that same period, he averaged a pace of 28 goals and 59 pts in the playoffs. He clearly elevated his game in the playoffs.
Obviously now, he's at a whole other level offensively, so I would expect more than a 59 pt pace in the playoffs.
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I don't see Suzuki as better offensively. Their production in the last two seasons is would suggest the opposite.Hisch is a better 2-way C and Suzuki is a better offensive C with a bit less defense.
Bergeron to Datsyuk of our modern days, pick your poison.
NJ fans and MTL fans can rejoice that both are better than Pettersson
Hischier actually has a higher PDO and Suzukis % Shooting is boosted by his PP goal scoring, where he picks shots. Of course it is going to go down anyway, but you can look to his A2 and his PP production to go up as they are both very low.
Overall I think they are both 80-90 points guys from now on and both should be solid 2-way contributors.
Mrb1p
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Of course you don't. If your word was truth, the Devils would be the New Joyzee Globe Trotters.
If you were to evaluate bpth players skillset, it would be pretty easy to see who the better offensive player is.
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Mrb1p
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What about playint on a top 5 team in the league vs a bottom feeder? Or are circumstances only brought up when it fits your narrative?regarding the difference in "playoff performance" I think there is a bit of a difference between playing in the playoffs the year you were drafted and playing in the playoffs after two years(?) of development
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Based on what? Hischier has been the more productive player the last few years, and is the better skater and puck handler.
You calling me biased is pretty ironic TBH.
interesting, Perhaps a Habs fan could bring that up into the discussion without making it sound like I'm perpetrating a conspiracy against Suzuki?
I'm also wondering why you felt the need to use a rude Italian american stereotype when arguing with Whiskey.
Mrb1p
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He is faster, that much I can agree with. Hes also a better puck handler at speed.
Suzuki is better at creating space with his stick handling. His shooting is off the charts and his vision IMO is very slightly better but both are top-of-league so it doesnt matter much.
If you bring up a point in favor for X you should also consider it for Y, otherwise it is dishonest or bad analysis.
Also it aint rude its funny, sorry if I did hurt your feelings, it wasnt my intention.
- Apr 27, 2005
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They have nearly identical career shooting percentages... And they are completely identical over the last 2 seasons, even though Hischier takes a few more shots.
On top of that, Hischier has been much more productive at 5v5 over the last 2 years, despite having Pavel Zacha as his most common linemate last year and Tomas Tatar this year. Meanwhile Suzuki has played well over half of his 5v5 time with Caufield during that span.
Still, he dominates Suzuki in 5v5 stats over last 2 seasons. Scoring more points and goals despite a worse oish%, while dominating on both sides of the puck.
P/60
Hischier 2.68
Suzuki 1.98
G/60
Hischier 0.92
Suzuki 0.63
On ice sh%
Hischier 9.5%
Suzuki 9.8%
Rel xG%
Hischier 2.30
Suzuki -3.20
xG%
Hischier 55.49
Suzuki 43.61
There really is no argument that Suzuki is a better offensive player, let alone all around player. This isn't close at the moment.
ninetyeight
Registered User
Suzuki is scoring goals at very high sh% right now. He has the second highest percentage of everyone whose scored 10 or more (Crouse is #1).
Now the question is whether he can sustain it. If he can he'll be in the running for the rocket.
Now the question is whether he can sustain it. If he can he'll be in the running for the rocket.
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Not really. There is no way he maintains a 26% shooting percentage lol.
Mrb1p
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Hes shooting at a high % because he barely ever shoots. Hes not even at 3 shots a game. Most of his shooting % comes from the PP.
Over a full year theres gonna be a normalization. 90 points is the target.
Heh, why do we even bother having threads or watching hockey if the whole spectrum of knowledge comes from black on white? Watch a game once in a while man, theyre fun.
Thinking Hischier is as good a shooter as Suzuki is quite the take.
TheBeastCoast
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ninetyeight
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I mean it's the black on white that says Suzuki is the better shooter this season. Better sh% and more goals. Unless you're a neutral fan the eye test doesn't mean much since all fanbases are massively biased.
Mrb1p
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Nick scores these goals weekly.
Nico is a great player, may even be a better player than Nick, I dont really care if you prefer him, theres very strong arguments for both.
Telling me Nico is an equal shooter to Suzuki is like me telling you Suzuki is taller.
Captain97
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KevSkillz4
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That should be more closer... Hischier is a very very good two-way player, but playing with a very good team help his offensive numbers. Suzuki is the best producer on a not playoff team.
Suzuki is more offensive minded than Hischier... i would not be surprise if Suzuki can put 90 points per season with his two-way ability, that's rare. Hischier is great, but Suzuki looks like a superstar.
Suzuki is more offensive minded than Hischier... i would not be surprise if Suzuki can put 90 points per season with his two-way ability, that's rare. Hischier is great, but Suzuki looks like a superstar.
Nico Cauzuki
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Suzuki has a very good shot, but Hischier has a very deceptive and accurate wrister as well.
There's 5 or 6 really nice shots in that package just from last year.
