Post-Game Talk: Supposed to be friendly, but not THAT friendly - Jets gift wrap 2 pts to Wild

[Aavco Cup]

I guess Trouba will be off IR soon.

@BrownScottTN: #NHLJets re-assign Julian Melchiori to IceCaps

 

[TheDeuce]

Oh Claude, lets hope Pere Noel is in a giving mood this holiday season and gives the Jets a new coach.

#boom #wordplay #NoelIsSantaInFrench

Honest to God, I had a bout of temporary dyslexia when I read this. Here's what I saw:

#NoelIsSatanInFrench


I figured the forum was in a particularly snarly mood...


Support #MDA (Mothers Against Dyslexia).





m.

 

[Cyro]

Man, this was terrible timing to start posting on HF, who's idea was this???
It seems we're already writing the season off..

It's okay, spent to much time browsing had to log in eventually.

Others have said it already, I'm usually quite patient and optimistic but it's coming down to this road trip. If we put it all together and win at least 5, their will be some hope, however little giving as a long shot at a wild card spot.

I'm for the change, although some disagree, give Noel /team 6 games on the road to get their minds on the huge task at hand, after that all bets are off.

If we can't pull it off on this Eastern swing, It's not gonna happen. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it..

 

[pegjets]

My gist on it is that we're perhaps an average team. Average forward line-up. Some dynamic pieces on defense, but some weak spots too. Average goaltender.

And actually I don't think Noel is necessarily a bad coach. Maybe he is an average coach.

But in the West, average isn't going to cut it. Winning about half of your games, give or take a few isn't going to be good enough. Perhaps in the East we'd squeak in 7th or 8th. But we need an excellent coach to elevate this team in the standings beyond it's talent level.

I think the above sums it up succinctly.

 

[SensibleGuy]

Hehe, the guys on the Sunday Morning hockey show on OB are laying it out there this morn. Basically, the Jets are a systemless mess that hasn't improved in any meaningful way since coming to Wpg and that has zero chance of making the playoffs this season. Also don't think things are going to improve much anytime soon, don't think the future is bright for Noel, and that "cracks" are starting to appear within the room.

Can't say I disagree at all really.

 

[ps241]

Good post ps241. But your options can really only take 2 paths. You can add without subtracting, by signing UFA's or fleecing someone in a trade or 2. This path is unlikely since we will hard pressed to win a UFA sweepstakes for an elite talent and have to overpay for a serviceable addition. And you rarely if ever see a one sided blockbuster trade that immediately changes the fate of an organization.

The more likely option is a complete bottom out. You start trading away your top talent for young players/prospects/picks which you combine with your own picks over a couple year period.

I am flying around this morning and will respond to your post when I get a chance later.....I don't think we need to bottom out yet but I also don't think status quo is the path. I think reengineering by making trades that work for all parties is possible though.

 

[Andy6]

I am flying around this morning and will respond to your post when I get a chance later.....I don't think we need to bottom out yet but I also don't think status quo is the path. I think reengineering by making trades that work for all parties is possible though.

I think trading Kane is absolutely imperative. They have to bite the bullet on that for everyone's sake. He can be (and, in his own way, already is) a very good player but he needs to be in some other environment ... I'm not exactly sure what environment, but it's not working here. Any attempt to have a system is going to founder because our second line, with Kane on it, isn't going to fit into the system (unless the system is a three-pronged one of: (i) shoot it right at the goalie, (ii) blast it wide or over the net and start an opposition rush before your teammates can get set up in any coherent way, or (iii) go behind the net and make a nice pass out front to no one (and special option (iv) take a high-sticking penalty when you get frustrated that (i)-(iii) didn't work.))

Other than that, we have to be patient and let the elements come together. That is the way you extract added value from your assets -- let them learn to play together and unlock the synergies that come from working effectively together with people whose abilities and tendencies you fully understand. Changing the coach is a much less effective way of extracting added value. It might work sometimes, and might have worked a lot back when the coaching staff was one guy operating on personal whims and intuition, but the odds that a coaching staff today is dependably going to come up with a lot of new and effective ideas that the previous staff didn't come up with seem kind of long to me.

 

[Warhead77]

Hehe, the guys on the Sunday Morning hockey show on OB are laying it out there this morn. Basically, the Jets are a systemless mess that hasn't improved in any meaningful way since coming to Wpg and that has zero chance of making the playoffs this season. Also don't think things are going to improve much anytime soon, don't think the future is bright for Noel, and that "cracks" are starting to appear within the room.

Can't say I disagree at all really.

You would never hear something like that on 1290.

I agree with all of it.

 

[SensibleGuy]

You would never hear something like that on 1290.

Well I wouldn't say that really. I've heard the guys on the big show say stuff like that before. RR too. I just think we're approaching critical mass now.

It really sucks that we're only at the quarter point and already done. Hard to believe. Was so optimistic at the outset, I really thought this team was going to surprise some people this season but its pretty apparent the prognosticators got it right this time.

 

[Jet]

I think trading Kane is absolutely imperative. They have to bite the bullet on that for everyone's sake. He can be (and, in his own way, already is) a very good player but he needs to be in some other environment ... I'm not exactly sure what environment, but it's not working here. Any attempt to have a system is going to founder because our second line, with Kane on it, isn't going to fit into the system (unless the system is a three-pronged one of: (i) shoot it right at the goalie, (ii) blast it wide or over the net and start an opposition rush before your teammates can get set up in any coherent way, or (iii) go behind the net and make a nice pass out front to no one (and special option (iv) take a high-sticking penalty when you get frustrated that (i)-(iii) didn't work.))

Other than that, we have to be patient and let the elements come together. That is the way you extract added value from your assets -- let them learn to play together and unlock the synergies that come from working effectively together with people whose abilities and tendencies you fully understand. Changing the coach is a much less effective way of extracting added value. It might work sometimes, and might have worked a lot back when the coaching staff was one guy operating on personal whims and intuition, but the odds that a coaching staff today is dependably going to come up with a lot of new and effective ideas that the previous staff didn't come up with seem kind of long to me.

Have you ever stopped to consider that what Kane might need is a little coaching? I mean, proper coaching? He has shown (albeit in small spurts) some offensive creativity and desire to pass, delay and do other things to generate offense. I feel like he is butting heads a bit with Noel.

Lets really sit back and think about this.

Burmi leaves, rumbles about Noel being the reason.

Joki sucks first year after being a pretty consistent offensive guy.

Seto failing to produce and not getting used

Kane at odds with Noel and not scoring, looking like he is lacking confidence. That is a BIG one considering that he is a VERY confident fellow.

Wheeler with confidence issues

Bogo with (apparently) confidence issues

Scheifele looks terrified to do anything out there

Come to think of it, Byfuglien's issues could also be attributed to confidence. When you aren't confident you can't make simple plays. You stop skating. Paralysis by analysis.

If you start looking at the problems we are having coaching can be at least suggested to be the problem. When it is this many players - coming from different places, you really have to start questioning it.

 

[BigZ65]

And add to the above - does anybody really believe that the Avalanche and the Wild can continue at this pace for the whole season? Both the Stars and the Preds are about where I thought they would be, but I think the Avs and Wild are going to regress as the season continues. I predict that by season's end, there will be a complete logjam for the two wild card positions, or at least the last one.

I'm not giving up yet, because unlike the previous two seasons, the Jets don't seem to collapse in the face of adversity quite the same anymore. We all knew coming into this season that the Central was possibly the toughest division, and that the Jets, while improved, were going to be in tough to make the post-season. To be honest, I was more disheartened by last year's near miss than I will be if they don't make the cut this year.

There's still some signs of life in the patient - not quite dead yet. Or, to borrow from the Princess Bride "There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do."

Or, I'm just the eternal optimist, as I prefer that to being a pessimist.

You're getting to a point in the season where the standings sort of settle. There will be teams trading paint 1-8, but for any of that group from the Canucks on down to break in, they will have to go on a tremendous run even if the unexpected top 8 teams go .500 the rest of the way. The Jets would have to play at about a .650 clip (points earned) for the rest of the season to even enter the playoff conversation.

 

[Analyst365]

Have you ever stopped to consider that what Kane might need is a little coaching? I mean, proper coaching? He has shown (albeit in small spurts) some offensive creativity and desire to pass, delay and do other things to generate offense. I feel like he is butting heads a bit with Noel.

Lets really sit back and think about this.

Burmi leaves, rumbles about Noel being the reason.

Joki sucks first year after being a pretty consistent offensive guy.

Seto failing to produce and not getting used

Kane at odds with Noel and not scoring, looking like he is lacking confidence. That is a BIG one considering that he is a VERY confident fellow.

Wheeler with confidence issues

Bogo with (apparently) confidence issues

Scheifele looks terrified to do anything out there

Come to think of it, Byfuglien's issues could also be attributed to confidence. When you aren't confident you can't make simple plays. You stop skating. Paralysis by analysis.

If you start looking at the problems we are having coaching can be at least suggested to be the problem. When it is this many players - coming from different places, you really have to start questioning it.

Not sure about the butting heads with Noel thing, that is more of a speculative comment that has gained traction over time, but I will weigh in on the "confidence" thing.

In most walks of life, it is the ones that front their confidence the most that are the ones that suffer the most from a lack of it. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Kane falls in this catagory. He's been getting away with bigging himself up for so long, now he's got the contract and its really time to deliver, he looks a hell of a lot more worried.

Crosby, Stamkos, Ovi, Tavares - all superstar material that are all pretty laid back cookies. Yeah Ovi shows confidence, but most of the time he's having a laugh with it (e.g. the burning stick celebration).

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Have you ever stopped to consider that what Kane might need is a little coaching? I mean, proper coaching? He has shown (albeit in small spurts) some offensive creativity and desire to pass, delay and do other things to generate offense. I feel like he is butting heads a bit with Noel.

Lets really sit back and think about this.

Burmi leaves, rumbles about Noel being the reason.

Joki sucks first year after being a pretty consistent offensive guy.

Seto failing to produce and not getting used

Kane at odds with Noel and not scoring, looking like he is lacking confidence. That is a BIG one considering that he is a VERY confident fellow.

Wheeler with confidence issues

Bogo with (apparently) confidence issues

Scheifele looks terrified to do anything out there

Come to think of it, Byfuglien's issues could also be attributed to confidence. When you aren't confident you can't make simple plays. You stop skating. Paralysis by analysis.

If you start looking at the problems we are having coaching can be at least suggested to be the problem. When it is this many players - coming from different places, you really have to start questioning it.

Ummmmm, what? So your perceptions of player confidence is now being blamed on Noel?

Do you give Noel credit when they are playing confident? Buff, Wheeler, Kane, Ladd, Little, Bogosian have played their best hockey here by a country mile all under the same coach. Not sure how you square that away.

 

[Jet]

Ummmmm, what? So your perceptions of player confidence is now being blamed on Noel?

Do you give Noel credit when they are playing confident? Buff, Wheeler, Kane, Ladd, Little, Bogosian have played their best hockey here by a country mile all under the same coach. Not sure how you square that away.

True, but not consistently. A coach will foster an environment where players can discover and maintain confidence. Anyone can have a strong game and have unsustainable confidence. Temporary confidence is more likely to be a product of a period of play than a coach.

Little was good before Noel was around. Wheeler has been at his best, but also worst for long stretches under Noel. Same can be said for Buff and Bogo.

Good coaches get the best out of their players on a consistent basis. Noel does not do that. We are not talking about getting players to play over their heads, here. I am talking about players with elite talent seemingly unable to utilize that talent for any long stretch of time.

Ladd and Little might be immune to it because they are handled differently or they have an inner confidence and peace that is at a level that is resistant to outside influence.

 

[scelaton]

In most walks of life, it is the ones that front their confidence the most that are the ones that suffer the most from a lack of it. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Kane falls in this catagory. He's been getting away with bigging himself up for so long, now he's got the contract and its really time to deliver, he looks a hell of a lot more worried.
Crosby, Stamkos, Ovi, Tavares - all superstar material that are all pretty laid back cookies. Yeah Ovi shows confidence, but most of the time he's having a laugh with it (e.g. the burning stick celebration).

I agree with this analysis and have seen it with a number of physically gifted but emotionally immature athletes. Behind the swagger, there is little to sustain them when they aren't performing well. Kane's got to get out of this slump himself, by playing hard, smart and not taking stupid penalties--not an easy task considering he plays on the edge and appears to have alienated the refs. It'll be a good test for him and I hope he succeeds, but this one is on him, not Noel.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Pre-Game for the Devil's is posted here.