Transfer: Summer Transfers and Rumors Discussion - Part III

[les Habs]

I always laugh at this "only wants to join X". That's a bull of crap. Like if City, PSG, Madrid and Bayern came and he would say, nope, I don't want to join any of those lesser teams.
He may be more interested in joining Liverpool than the others but if Liverpool dropped out of him for whatever reason and Bayern came he would be like "naw, only liverpool"?

He will go to Liverpool in any case, just found funny the tweet.

Well the context though is that it’s “only wants to join X out of clubs currently interested in him.” City, PSG, Madrid and Bayern aren’t in for him right now. If they are that might change in some cases.

The one that lost the league and the CL is the best in the world?

Yes, them. They are IMO the best side of last year. That said their season should be considered a real disappointment despite how good it was.

Pep 100% would have traded City’s season for LFCs season

You are leaving out the UCL final. Pep doesn’t need another PL title. No one cares if City win PL. Pep needs another UCL title on his resume though.

Come on mate, that’s ridiculous. And Guardiola and City care if they win the CL as was evidence by their response to doing so.

Transfer-wise they are frugal but always seem to buy lesser-known targets who become stars.
Dominance-wise they are the best team in England if you don't count the Oil money-run clubs which weren't present during peak-Fergy days.
Youth development-wise they know when to cut ties (Solanke) and when to keep pushing with youngsters (TAA)
They're far from perfect, but ManU also had some questionable moves during Fergy days - but what sets them apart is that they're growth isn't deterred by that. Very well run club, and a blueprint for smaller clubs to follow. Only other club in the world who come close is Dortmund to a lesser degree.
Barcelona look like they are switching gears into that path as well.

I don’t think it’s so much lesser-known targets who become stars as it is recruiting the right players who will fit into the team and tactical setup. They’ve done an incredible job there. The issue for them will be if and when they lose Klopp.

One can only hope Barca are on that track, but considering their financial situation it’s more difficult. That said they also need to make the right decisions and selling De Jong would not be one of those. That said they have made some good buys, but then they always have, though you’d never know it on this forum. Still room to improve and get rid of the dead weight.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Transfer-wise they are frugal but always seem to buy lesser-known targets who become stars.
Dominance-wise they are the best team in England if you don't count the Oil money-run clubs which weren't present during peak-Fergy days.
Youth development-wise they know when to cut ties (Solanke) and when to keep pushing with youngsters (TAA)
They're far from perfect, but ManU also had some questionable moves during Fergy days - but what sets them apart is that they're growth isn't deterred by that. Very well run club, and a blueprint for smaller clubs to follow. Only other club in the world who come close is Dortmund to a lesser degree.
Barcelona look like they are switching gears into that path as well.

Transfers are somewhat comparable. They've both spent big money, but were also very good at finding good squad and depth players that fit the systems.

They aren't really comparable from a dominance standpoint. Pep is the only one with a comparable trophy run so far in the PL era, but even than it's not anywhere near SAF's tenure.

 

[les Habs]

In Barca news, Jorge Mendes met with Laporta and Alemany today:

—Mendes is quoted as saying there is interest in Nico, but the club don’t want to sell.
—Lenglet was apparently discussed with Porto the interested club. Fantastic news and hopefully they get rid of him.
—They also apparently discussed Soler who has been linked with the team multiple times. Like Gaya, I believe Soler’s contract is up next season.

Also, rumor is that if De Jong goes it’ll be to fund Bernardo Silva, but I think the problem with that is Guardiola’s unwillingness to sell.

 

[Live in the Now]

Transfers are somewhat comparable. They've both spent big money, but were also very good at finding good squad and depth players that fit the systems.

They aren't really comparable from a dominance standpoint. Pep is the only one with a comparable trophy run so far in the PL era, but even than it's not anywhere near SAF's tenure.

Establishing that Klopp and Ferguson are on more of an even playing field than Pep would be with either of them due to playing with funny money. It took Ferguson until his 8th season to win two trophies in one season. I think this is worth mentioning right at this moment. It took Klopp seven seasons to win two trophies in one season.

The point being that when you're building a juggernaut without oil money it takes a while to get the team where you really want them to be.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Establishing that Klopp and Ferguson are on more of an even playing field than Pep would be with either of them due to playing with funny money. It took Ferguson until his 8th season to win two trophies in one season. I think this is worth mentioning right at this moment. It took Klopp seven seasons to win two trophies in one season.

The point being that when you're building a juggernaut without oil money it takes a while to get the team where you really want them to be.

Definitely a valid point.

 

[les Habs]

I think the ”oil money” argument with regards to City that has come up in multiple posts from multiple folks now is a fair one, but it doesn’t consider how much of that money has been wasted, how their squad isn’t as good as say Liverpool’s and how good a job Guardiola is doing despite the funds. I think City could easily be improved upon despite how much they’ve spent.

 

[Live in the Now]

It doesn't matter what Pep does in comparison to any other manager. It's too bad for him but that's how it will be considered and looked at ten years from now. He could win a treble every year and that would be awesome but everyone (especially the other managers) is aware of one simple fact. He is not playing the same game as the other managers. His record fee for a defender goes and rapes a bunch of women and they buy another fullback for 70 million Euros, the other managers do not get to play that game.

I think the ”oil money” argument with regards to City that has come up in multiple posts from multiple folks now is a fair one, but it doesn’t consider how much of that money has been wasted, how their squad isn’t as good as say Liverpool’s and how good a job Guardiola is doing despite the funds. I think City could easily be improved upon despite how much they’ve spent.

I think he's done a good job, but regardless, situations like Mendy for Cancelo as mentioned above, no other manager gets to do that.

 

[les Habs]

It doesn't matter what Pep does in comparison to any other manager. It's too bad for him but that's how it will be considered and looked at ten years from now. He could win a treble every year and that would be awesome but everyone (especially the other managers) is aware of one simple fact. He is not playing the same game as the other managers. His record fee for a defender goes and rapes a bunch of women and they buy another fullback for 70 million Euros, the other managers do not get to play that game.


I think he's done a good job, but regardless, situations like Mendy for Cancelo as mentioned above, no other manager gets to do that.

That is correct, other managers don’t have that luxury, but that doesn’t change the fact that City easily improve on multiple positions and their depth. And whomever is considering or looking at it ten years from now will be mistaken in their assessment if that’s all it boils down to. City were the second best side in the league this year, but still won it. That is what people ten years on should know.

 

[Live in the Now]

That is correct, other managers don’t have that luxury, but that doesn’t change the fact that City easily improve on multiple positions and their depth. And whomever is considering or looking at it ten years from now will be mistaken in their assessment if that’s all it boils down to. City were the second best side in the league this year, but still won it. That is what people ten years on should know.

Yeah see unlike a lot of Liverpool supporters I don't really see it that way. They were the best side in the league because we have to take the whole season into account. At the end of the day Liverpool made a conscious decision to chase all four trophies. They won some and they lost some but ultimately when they dropped points against Tottenham that was a consequence of having made a decision to not preserve their best side for the league. Klopp made a decision that the Villarreal match was most important to him, and it was the correct decision, but I also think that a slightly rotated side would have been capable of preserving the result at Villarreal. Against Villa he also made the decision that the Chelsea final was more important to him and he rotated the team in the league very heavily. So best team in the league? I don't really think so. All of these decisions were made because playing those three finals were of the utmost importance, City fought to consolidate the league and they did, they were the better team in the league.

I do also think that a couple of our players had an eye on AFCON at the end of December and that might've f***ed us over, but they'll never admit to it. But see City built their team so they don't have to worry about that, and it wasn't their money that was a factor in building the team that way, they just...did it that way.

That also being said I don't think the season was very disappointing even with not having won two of those four trophies. To have a stake in every game played this season was good enough, none of the competitions Liverpool entered were ended without Liverpool participating in the final match. What is disappointing is that Courtois played so well, but I think signing Darwin is the kind of thing that will go a long way towards fixing that, and potentially something that will go a long way towards winning trophies. We need a younger natural finisher. That being said I think if anyone expects more than two trophies in any following season that would be a little naive, and given that Klopp doesn't prioritize the domestic cups until the QF, very unlikely.

 

[les Habs]

Well by best team in the league, I’m referring to the squad. I’m not saying they deserved the title, in my opinion they didn’t. I do think they should have won the title though. That said, as you note, competing on multiple fronts and having players in AFCON does make a difference and makes things more difficult.

As for the season being disappointing, I think that’s personal. On the one hand I can’t understand where you’re coming from. Winning 2 of 4 trophies and going to the wire in the league and making the CL Final is as close as you get. However, I look at it as though you’ve got this great side and at it’s peak and so by not winning the league and the CL, both competitions you should have won, you missed out on a great opportunity that doesn’t come around all that often. And let me be clear, this isn’t a dig. I am saying they’re the best team after all.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Man City has built a ridiculous sporting project. Pep's done a good job there, but it's a lot easier to build that successful of a sporting project when money literally isn't an object. They spend crazy money but it feels like the amount of flops they have is very low for how many big money signings they have. But as LITN says, if something doesn't work out they can replace someone like that no problem.

 

[Live in the Now]

Well by best team in the league, I’m referring to the squad. I’m not saying they deserved the title, in my opinion they didn’t. I do think they should have won the title though. That said, as you note, competing on multiple fronts and having players in AFCON does make a difference and makes things more difficult.

As for the season being disappointing, I think that’s personal. On the one hand I can’t understand where you’re coming from. Winning 2 of 4 trophies and going to the wire in the league and making the CL Final is as close as you get. However, I look at it as though you’ve got this great side and at it’s peak and so by not winning the league and the CL, both competitions you should have won, you missed out on a great opportunity that doesn’t come around all that often. And let me be clear, this isn’t a dig. I am saying they’re the best team after all.

They didn't win the quad, but I guess there's a reason nobody's ever won the quad. Come the end of the season I've rarely seen a team look so tired, I have no idea how they won the last two league matches or the FA Cup final. During the Villarreal away match I also thought winning that one might be a bridge too far.

I also think with a full season of Diaz (and hopefully Darwin) we might be singing a different tune about winning the two trophies we didn't get, so I'm gonna wait and see.

 

[les Habs]

Man City has built a ridiculous sporting project. Pep's done a good job there, but it's a lot easier to build that successful of a sporting project when money literally isn't an object. They spend crazy money but it feels like the amount of flops they have is very low for how many big money signings they have. But as LITN says, if something doesn't work out they can replace someone like that no problem.

I’m well aware that they can go out and replace someone who doesn’t work out with ease. The point though is that team can still be easily improved on and it’s not been. Striker (pre-Haaland), wing, DM, a CB (two really) and a FB could all be easily upgraded with the money they have.

I also still will not give Guardiola credit or blame for all transfer business as I think it’s not realistic.

They didn't win the quad, but I guess there's a reason nobody's ever won the quad. Come the end of the season I've rarely seen a team look so tired, I have no idea how they won the last two league matches or the FA Cup final. During the Villarreal away match I also thought winning that one might be a bridge too far.

I also think with a full season of Diaz (and hopefully Darwin) we might be singing a different tune about winning the two trophies we didn't get, so I'm gonna wait and see.

And who says they stop at Darwin? I mean for me they‘d still have the best side If they sign him and I would imagine they’re continue to reinforce with all the sales they’ll make.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Man City has built a ridiculous sporting project. Pep's done a good job there, but it's a lot easier to build that successful of a sporting project when money literally isn't an object. They spend crazy money but it feels like the amount of flops they have is very low for how many big money signings they have. But as LITN says, if something doesn't work out they can replace someone like that no problem.

Which is why it's valid to say that Pep isn't all that he is clamored to be. Obviously no schmuck could replace him, but his job is much easier than any other manager in the world.

 

[bluesfan94]

Establishing that Klopp and Ferguson are on more of an even playing field than Pep would be with either of them due to playing with funny money. It took Ferguson until his 8th season to win two trophies in one season. I think this is worth mentioning right at this moment. It took Klopp seven seasons to win two trophies in one season.

The point being that when you're building a juggernaut without oil money it takes a while to get the team where you really want them to be.

It’s funny cause I’m pretty sure Liverpool employs the second most expensive defender and goalie in soccer history and is about to spend a metric shitload on Nunez but somehow Liverpool is doing it all without money.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Well by best team in the league, I’m referring to the squad. I’m not saying they deserved the title, in my opinion they didn’t. I do think they should have won the title though. That said, as you note, competing on multiple fronts and having players in AFCON does make a difference and makes things more difficult.

As for the season being disappointing, I think that’s personal. On the one hand I can’t understand where you’re coming from. Winning 2 of 4 trophies and going to the wire in the league and making the CL Final is as close as you get. However, I look at it as though you’ve got this great side and at it’s peak and so by not winning the league and the CL, both competitions you should have won, you missed out on a great opportunity that doesn’t come around all that often. And let me be clear, this isn’t a dig. I am saying they’re the best team after all.

I'd easily take Liverpool's starting 11 over Man City's

 

[Live in the Now]

And who says they stop at Darwin? I mean for me they‘d still have the best side If they sign him and I would imagine they’re continue to reinforce with all the sales they’ll make.

Yeah they have to sign a CM too. Gonna refrain from posting names because I was considering drafting one of them. Carvalho from Fulham was also much too good for the Championship.

There's also an academy boy who plays Salah's position and I think we'll see much more from him. But now we are starting to hit the point where I may feel disappointed if we don't push on. I know I said before that it would be hard to get to this point but the success has lasted longer than I'd expected. A lot of supporters were negative about this coming window but considering that Klopp signed a new contract there has to be some level of very large financial backing here.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

It’s funny cause I’m pretty sure Liverpool employs the second most expensive defender and goalie in soccer history and is about to spend a metric shitload on Nunez but somehow Liverpool is doing it all without money.

Well much less money. There is no way of being competitive for more than a season (if that) without spending a lot of money. Football is a business more than it is a sport.

 

[Live in the Now]

It’s funny cause I’m pretty sure Liverpool employs the second most expensive defender and goalie in soccer history and is about to spend a metric shitload on Nunez but somehow Liverpool is doing it all without money.

Yes this may shock you but when you make Champions League finals the prize money is around 100 million for each run and a team should spend it instead of hoarding it. They've now expanded the stadium twice (one ongoing) because of that and they've bought players. Their success earned that money. The point is also that Ferguson had to be successful winning one trophy every season to have enough money to get a squad that could do better.

At least now you understand they're going to keep buying great players instead of signing shitty ones for 5 million though.

 

[Live in the Now]

Which is why it's valid to say that Pep isn't all that he is clamored to be. Obviously no schmuck could replace him, but his job is much easier than any other manager in the world.

It's more that their scouting department isn't as good as ours. Whatever they're looking for is not always congruent with how players fit into Pep's team. Grealish and Ferran Torres are two examples of such. Torres however would fit well into a different good team.

They have also sold some really good players because they don't fit into Pep's team, but in many cases you would think their scouts know that before giving good reports recommending to buy them.

In our case the only player we've bought that's really good and doesn't quite fit in is Minamino, but that might be more of an issue of quality, our other players are so good that he can't break into the team. He's played really well every time he's on the pitch, but he's not Salah or Mane or Diaz or Jota or Firmino.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

They won some and they lost some but ultimately when they dropped points against Tottenham that was a consequence of having made a decision to not preserve their best side for the league.

I just want to address this. I agree with most of everything you are saying even if I hate to admit it. But can you really say that about an XI consisting of Alisson, TAA, VVD, Konate, Robertson, Fabinho, Henderson, Thiago, Diaz, Salah and Mane?

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I'd easily take Liverpool's starting 11 over Man City's

I don't.

I do believe Man City midfield is unmatched and too dominant. Bernado Silva, De Bruyne and Rodri are IMO the best at their respective position. The forwards are debatable but IMO the people claiming that it was playing without a proper striker are out of touch. Did they have the best striker? No but Jesus is more than good enough and he won them important games in the last stretch.

I think the best quality of Pep is getting his squad motivated all games even though they already have won so many trophies over the years. It is very hard to win all their remaining games like they did in 2022 and in 2019. That is quite an accomplishment.

The key next season for LFC would be to get a win or two against this City team. That could push them above them in the final ranking.

 

[Live in the Now]

I just want to address this. I agree with most of everything you are saying even if I hate to admit it. But can you really say that about an XI consisting of Alisson, TAA, VVD, Konate, Robertson, Fabinho, Henderson, Thiago, Diaz, Salah and Mane?

Yeah that goes with what I’m saying. Klopp played all those guys against Villarreal and then did the same thing again against Spurs. It’s not like he didn’t try but the Villarreal match didn’t exactly help matters against Spurs. Our boys had minimal energy left against Spurs and rightfully suffered for it. They didn’t preserve them for the league and that was the end result.

And then on top of all that there was mid week against Villa and the FA Cup final. So do you rotate the team against Spurs and have to put some players back in against Villa and then have them play the final too? These are things I’m glad I don’t have to decide. But if they didn’t beat City in the FA Cup semi then what happens with rotating the team? I guess we’ll never know. However this is where winning too much does present some problems late in the season. Glad to have those problems though.

 

[Evilo]

And he will get that at Real Madrid?

Ancelotti won't play him much because he plays vets. But he doesn't have much vets at Cherki's position so he could get playing time I think. More so than in Lyon apparently.

 

[Live in the Now]

Depending on who you believe the Darwin deal is done for 80+20. Tbh never thought our owners would pay that much for a player regardless of our income.