I don't think the car accident was the catalyst as he still blazed points back then and was quick. His injury in 07-08 THERE i noticed a difference in his play after although it did not immediately register on his point totals. He coasted a lot more, relying on linemates and did not have the same hustle.I vividly remember watching him and reading this board and the general sentiment on this board, that I agreed with, was that the effort was there and he was still putting up points but he was just visibly done.
While he was successful after the crash, he significantly decreased his longevity. Those numbers you referenced show how good he was, and that he should probably still be playing. Tearing 3 ligaments in his knee rapidly increased his rate of decline. If he was stupid about conditioning as well he only increased that rate of decline further. When he got to the Sharks, they got 2 pretty good years out of him, but the playoffs in his second season, you could see the effects on his mobility. He was starting to break down at 30, and he really should have easily made it to 1000 games and 500 goals.That I disagree with.
He scored 50, 50, 41, 39 and 39 goals 5 seasons after that car crash. The word at the time was he became reliant on his shot and stopped bothering with the physical conditioning and effort and it showed
While he was successful after the crash, he significantly decreased his longevity. Those numbers you referenced show how good he was, and that he should probably still be playing. Tearing 3 ligaments in his knee rapidly increased his rate of decline. If he was stupid about conditioning as well he only increased that rate of decline further. When he got to the Sharks, they got 2 pretty good years out of him, but the playoffs in his second season, you could see the effects on his mobility. He was starting to break down at 30, and he really should have easily made it to 1000 games and 500 goals.
The more I think about it the more committing to a Burns/Couture/Vlasic core into their late 30s is absolute insanity even if they somehow never decline from what they are today (which is impossible). These guys weren't good enough to get it done when they had a prime Thornton, Marleau and Pavelski playing ahead of them in the lineup - how the hell is locking them up with those guys gone going to lead to a Stanley Cup? How are the Sharks going to get pieces of prime Thornton or Marleau's caliber without drafting 1st or 2nd overall?
Some of this is definitely hindsight analysis and I'd be singing a different tune if the Sharks had managed to sign Tavares but the fact of the matter is they didn't and the future of this team looks depressingly bleak.
The only other option really is to not sign these guys and let them walk. Trading any of them wasn't going to get the team anything really.
As far as I know Vlasic didn't have any sort of trade restriction on his old deal. I'm sure they could have fetched a first round pick and a good prospect for him at the 2017 draft, especially from a team he was willing to sign an extension with. Couture and Burns were trickier due to their NTCs but they probably would have been willing to work with Wilson on a trade to a preferred destination.
But even losing all three of these guys for nothing would have been preferable to being locked into them for almost the next decade when they're all already in their thirties. This is a group of players who weren't even remotely worth building around at their absolute peak - there were better players on the team than Couture, Vlasic and Burns when each of those guys were at their respective peaks and we still couldn't win a Cup.
Throw Kane into the mix and we've committed $30 million in cap space for the next seven years to four declining complementary players with no stars in place and no conceivable way to acquire those stars. The trajectory of this team once Thornton either falls off a cliff or retires won't be pretty but thanks to those four contracts and Jones they probably won't be awful enough to land a top three pick barring lottery luck. It's a bad spot to be in. Everything was contingent on getting Tavares and we missed out. A team with a thirtysomething Logan Couture as its best forward is going nowhere.
Vlasic had a full no-trade clause on his last deal. The rest is preference which is fine but it's a minority opinion around here. Most would rather get in the playoffs and lose than rebuild.
I'm all for winning, playoffs etc. but not the Redwings way, just for the sake of it. You don't win by overpaying your players and mediocre FA's. That's what Wilson is currently doing and it's not gonna work. Ask Ken Holland. Sooner or later you're up against the cap with a trash roster. Only a matter of time.
From their perspective, it's not likely that they're doing it for the sake of doing it. They're doing it because it's what is best for their bottom line. Until that isn't the case anymore and they have no real alternatives, this is likely the way they will continue to go. Unfortunately for people like me who do want them to choose the best route for a championship rather than worry about their bottom line, the core moving forward is good enough to compete for a playoff spot and that's probably going to be good enough so long as they make it. The difference between San Jose and Detroit is that San Jose found their replacement defensemen when their star retired. When Lidstrom retired, Detroit had no one that was even of #1 quality. When Boyle retired, the Sharks had Burns waiting. The forwards have shown that they're good enough without Marleau and good enough without Thornton to be a playoff team. Maybe that changes if Pavelski walks after this season but I doubt it. This team isn't dropping from playoff contention until Burns tanks. I don't see that happening in the next few years.
I think the only reason this roster made the playoffs last year and is pretty much a lock to make it again this year is because the current Pacific is one of the worst divisions the NHL has seen since realignment. There are at least five Central Division teams better than the Sharks right now but it doesn't matter because even if they all make the playoffs there's still a guaranteed spot for the Sharks. If Edmonton ever gets their **** together and/or Vancouver lands Jack Hughes that's gonna change.
From their perspective, it's not likely that they're doing it for the sake of doing it. They're doing it because it's what is best for their bottom line. Until that isn't the case anymore and they have no real alternatives, this is likely the way they will continue to go. Unfortunately for people like me who do want them to choose the best route for a championship rather than worry about their bottom line, the core moving forward is good enough to compete for a playoff spot and that's probably going to be good enough so long as they make it. The difference between San Jose and Detroit is that San Jose found their replacement defensemen when their star retired. When Lidstrom retired, Detroit had no one that was even of #1 quality. When Boyle retired, the Sharks had Burns waiting. The forwards have shown that they're good enough without Marleau and good enough without Thornton to be a playoff team. Maybe that changes if Pavelski walks after this season but I doubt it. This team isn't dropping from playoff contention until Burns tanks. I don't see that happening in the next few years.
It doesn't really matter to the bottom line why they made the playoffs. The fact is that they did and they have good reason to believe they will continue to do so. Edmonton and Vancouver will never be able to consistently compete for a playoff spot because their blue lines are garbage. Jack Hughes isn't going to change squat when it comes to Vancouver lol
For what then if not for the sake of it? They're not gonna win a cup like that. It's never been done like that because it doesn't work. And if Wilson's only goal is an extended playoff streak (again, like Detroit) then Plattner can please fire him right now.
Again, I'm not against winning and a few months ago I wasn't in the rebuild camp but needless overpayments for your own players and average FA's won't lead anywhere. You need to build a solid core and then you can still overpay for the missing pieces.
With all respect for Burns...even if Detroit had Burns instead of Green (not even talking about the additional cap issues that would bring) they still wouldn't be a contender. They overpaid and gambled on terms with too many players...they're one of the worst teams in the NHL and still struggle to sign their RFA's because they're up against the cap for quite a while now. And all that for the sake of a friggin playoff streak without an actual shot at the cup. Stupid. And again. If that's your plan, Doug then please get lost.
Playoffs mean extra money in playners pockets. Why would he fire wilson?
What pinkfloyd is talking about has nothing to do with winning cups. That would be an extreme bonus for platner. Just making the playoffs and being swept still makes platner an easy couple million.
For what then if not for the sake of it? They're not gonna win a cup like that. It's never been done like that because it doesn't work. And if Wilson's only goal is an extended playoff streak (again, like Detroit) then Plattner can please fire him right now.
Again, I'm not against winning and a few months ago I wasn't in the rebuild camp but needless overpayments for your own players and average FA's won't lead anywhere. You need to build a solid core and then you can still overpay for the missing pieces.
With all respect for Burns...even if Detroit had Burns instead of Green (not even talking about the additional cap issues that would bring) they still wouldn't be a contender. They overpaid and gambled on terms with too many players...they're one of the worst teams in the NHL and still struggle to sign their RFA's because they're up against the cap for quite a while now. And all that for the sake of a friggin playoff streak without an actual shot at the cup. Stupid. And again. If that's your plan, Doug then please get lost.
I'm saying it's not something they can count on indefinitely. They're probably going to start missing the playoffs if the division improves even slightly, which could be as soon as 2019-20. This forward group without Thornton and Pavelski is horrendous and there's no help on the way from the pipeline.
The thing is...they won't be able to keep up their playoff streak for 10 more seasons...not if they continue to throw too much money/term/clauses at mediocre players. I don't think that's gonna be possible. I may be wrong but I say that may work 4-5 seasons at best so if Wilson continues to do what he did the last few years the Sharks will probably be a +/- 50% playoff team until their TV-deal expires.
With a proper rebuild on the fly (like Tampa for example) that percentage would likely be higher. Wilson could also try to fix the team via trades and only keep players willing to win with the Sharks. It's been done before...could also lead to a few missed playoffs but that would (or would have since it would be difficult after Wilson's latest moves) be my preferred route.
Nobody is counting on anything indefinitely. That's a straw man. They're probably going to start missing the playoffs if the division improves even slightly? Based on what? I don't think you have given much thought to what the other teams in this division are doing if you honestly believe that. The teams outside of the playoffs in the Pacific would need to improve dramatically to compete and I don't think any of them have. Anaheim is practically in the same position as the Sharks when it comes to their competition level. The Kings aren't going to be much different. Vegas will probably regress to some extent. The Sharks already showed they can compete and win a playoff round without Thornton. I don't think Pavelski is the type of player that can't be replaced if needed. Horrendous to describe a forward group that we have little idea on besides Hertl, Couture, Kane, Tierney, and Karlsson under contract with Meier and Labanc as RFA's is taking quite the leap of faith. They may not have much in the pipeline but there will be trade and free agent options for them to pursue.
Trade and free agency options are fine if you need to add second and third line forwards. Without Thornton and Pavelski (whether they retire/leave or simply decline further) the Sharks don't have a first line. I have no idea how they acquire those players save for the Tyler Seguin pipe dream which almost certainly won't come to fruition.
Anaheim, LA and Vegas aren't who I'm worried about. If Raanta is for real Arizona is on the cusp of taking a big step forward. They already have a better blueline in place than we do and Keller is a stud. Edmonton has the best player in the league and you have to figure they'll fall ass backwards into contention on the strength of McDavid and Draisaitl alone sooner rather than later. Calgary added forward depth which was their achilles heel last season. I don't think the Sharks will miss the playoffs next year but 2019-20 and beyond seems like a bleak time for this franchise.
Nobody is going to take you seriously when you refer to the guys that they've signed long term as mediocre. Just because they're not one of the best ten players in the league doesn't mean they're mediocre. Stop with the gross exaggerations.
Plus Tampa didn't do some rebuild on the fly. Tampa rebuilt after they ran Boyle out of town and have been more or less competing off of that with Stamkos and Hedman. And they've gotten some big hits but it wasn't some rebuild on the fly plan when they hit on someone like Point or Kucherov. The only pick that really qualifies for something like that is Drouin turned into Sergachev.
It doesn't really matter to the bottom line why they made the playoffs. The fact is that they did and they have good reason to believe they will continue to do so. Edmonton and Vancouver will never be able to consistently compete for a playoff spot because their blue lines are garbage. Jack Hughes isn't going to change squat when it comes to Vancouver lol
I think the only reason this roster made the playoffs last year and is pretty much a lock to make it again this year is because the current Pacific is one of the worst divisions the NHL has seen since realignment. There are at least five Central Division teams better than the Sharks right now but it doesn't matter because even if they all make the playoffs there's still a guaranteed spot for the Sharks. If Edmonton ever gets their **** together and/or Vancouver lands Jack Hughes that's gonna change.