Sudbury Wolves 2024-25 Season Thread, Part II

[Voice from the North]

not sure if you are a little slow? I am playing out what I think Papineau will do, my take he is going to keep Musty and he will tweak the lineup with some moves to add to the depth, and run with the team.

My opinion is to trade Musty, and get as many assets you can, but I don't think Papineau will do that.

Unless Zulich says otherwise, Papineau will trade Musty and the OA defensemen if the offers are good enough. He may use picks to buy some decent 06-07 players, especially on defence. There is no reason to go for it this year.

 

[cub]

Unless Zulich says otherwise, Papineau will trade Musty and the OA defensemen if the offers are good enough. He may use picks to buy some decent 06-07 players, especially on defence. There is no reason to go for it this year.

we will see soon enough I think Musty is staying. I agree they should move him for some younger talent and picks.

 

[dirty12]

If Musty is kept, it's got to be all-in. Blonda and Chitaroni + for whatever can be squeezed out of SSM; Gibson, Cloutier, Nordh.

 

[agillarda]

If Musty is kept, it's got to be all-in. Blonda and Chitaroni + for whatever can be squeezed out of SSM; Gibson, Cloutier, Nordh.

Yep and next to no assets left with a defencene of Eweles, Bruce, Smith and Wreggit to start with potentially a 1st rd d for pick. Dean and Douct like move to second line. Wouldn't be a pretty season.

 

[cub]

If Musty is kept, it's got to be all-in. Blonda and Chitaroni + for whatever can be squeezed out of SSM; Gibson, Cloutier, Nordh.

you think Musty stays or goes that is the question? what do you think Papineau will do?

 

[Wolf on a Wire]

you think Musty stays or goes that is the question? what do you think Papineau will do?

I think #27 stays. Blonda will not be traded. I don’t see it as an “all in” situation but more buying the proper role/depth/support players. Should be targeting 07/08s to build base for next season and beyond.
I like most on here believe the absolute best option is to find a good home for Musty and recoup a young prospect or two and picks.
As mentioned by others, we are not quite up there with the elite teams in the East and we may never be. But, with the right moves this team with or without #27 can be much better.
With the right moves it should be a very fun second half.

 

[cub]

I think #27 stays. Blonda will not be traded. I don’t see it as an “all in” situation but more buying the proper role/depth/support players. Should be targeting 07/08s to build base for next season and beyond.
I like most on here believe the absolute best option is to find a good home for Musty and recoup a young prospect or two and picks.
As mentioned by others, we are not quite up there with the elite teams in the East and we may never be. But, with the right moves this team with or without #27 can be much better.
With the right moves it should be a very fun second half.

well said. I have the same sentiments.

 

[agillarda]

If paps can't find a way to move Musty, he should be fired the second the deadline is over. That would be the 3rd yes 3rd 1st overall pick he's had that he got nothing for.

There is a long list of players he has let walk out the door and got nothing for. That is horrendous asset management.

Byfield and Levin are the others as 1st overalls. He also got nothing for Murray and I still feel the return for Thompson (another player they said he was asking too much for) wasn't enough.

 

[LostRangers]

If paps can't find a way to move Musty, he should be fired the second the deadline is over. That would be the 3rd yes 3rd 1st overall pick he's had that he got nothing for.

There is a long list of players he has let walk out the door and got nothing for. That is horrendous asset management.

Byfield and Levin are the others as 1st overalls. He also got nothing for Murray and I still feel the return for Thompson (another player they said he was asking too much for) wasn't enough.

When would you have suggested trading Byfield….in his draft year? Who does that? Levin had no trade value. How would you have handled those two in comparison to what Paps did? Giving you the benefit of hindsight to come up with a better result.

 

[agillarda]

When would you have suggested trading Byfield….in his draft year? Who does that? Levin had no trade value. How would you have handled those two in comparison to what Paps did? Giving you the benefit of hindsight to come up with a better result.

No you are right you don't trade Byfield in his draft year on top of it being our last real shot at a championship then got screwed by the pandemic. He should have moved Levin going into his OA year there were better options for the team to bring back.

The idea I'm getting at is he has that hindsight himself. Is he willing going to put himself in that spot this time or does he do the smart thing and read the room and make the decision that is best for the team and it's future.

 

[Wolf on a Wire]

If paps can't find a way to move Musty, he should be fired the second the deadline is over. That would be the 3rd yes 3rd 1st overall pick he's had that he got nothing for.

There is a long list of players he has let walk out the door and got nothing for. That is horrendous asset management.

Byfield and Levin are the others as 1st overalls. He also got nothing for Murray and I still feel the return for Thompson (another player they said he was asking too much for) wasn't enough.

All tho a very good player, Levin wasn’t great and we added that year bringing in Ruzicka and others. With Byfield we’ll never know as Covid hit when he was in his second year, he never returned to Junior hockey (so we’ll never know what his final years in the O would have been like or if he would have been traded).
The Jack Thompson, Stillman, Holmes and Flint traded (excess OAs) were amazing transactions that other trades have been compared to for years after.
Frankly, other GMs seemed envious.
So if Musty doesn’t get traded there will be disappointment but under the totality of the circumstances not under the control of our (terrible) GM, no matter which way this goes I’m sure he’ll make the best of it…

 

[dirty12]

you think Musty stays or goes that is the question? what do you think Papineau will do?

Idk. What I don’t want to see is Musty traded for an ‘08-LW/LC with one point, just so we can see Villeneuve & Walton traded next season because there will be zero D that can be considered first pair.

 

[billoink]

I for one could certainly look forward watching Musty for the remainder of the season.

 

[dirty12]

I for one could certainly look forward watching Musty for the remainder of the season.

But then it has to be [(all-in)], right?
I mean if you can’t win with 1st, 2nd, 2nd as OAs; 3-1sts at 18-19 with two being lottery picks; and an 18 yr old break-out player; and >20 (2-5) picks, just resign and allow someone else to re-tool.

 

[justawolfan]

I hope all Wolves supporters can relax a bit over the holidays and take a deep breath. I believe this coaching staff will get the boys going again for a strong second half. Happy Holidays and positive thoughts!

 

[jamo27]

Mackenzie absolutely should have been fired last season. Papineau absolutely needs to be the next to go. He has shown absolutely zero ability to be an ohl level winning general manager. Find someone better and we can chat about the Wolves being a winner.

 

[Wiserbud]

Not saying Paps is good or bad. Although, I agree KMac should have been 'removed' as HC. My question is how do so many say he sucks when we (at least I ) don't have a clue what happens behind the scenes, with other GMs, etc.?

 

[agillarda]

Not saying Paps is good or bad. Although, I agree KMac should have been 'removed' as HC. My question is how do so many say he sucks when we (at least I ) don't have a clue what happens behind the scenes, with other GMs, etc.?

We are getting to the point of where good and bad don't really matter as much anymore. He came in in 2016 as vp of hockey ops, took over gm role in April 2017, a year later fired HC matsos who promptly won the ohl championship the next year. Replaced him with Stillman who stayed for 3 years, since then has had 5 head coaches in 4 years including 3 in one year.

Someone said GMs were envious some of the moves he made, however people also say gms hate dealing with him. People said he was being unreasonable with the ask for Thompson, rumored same situation with Musty this season. Also reportedly London and Peterborough were both pissed about how the Stillman trade went down, there was a report the Stillman was supposed to be flipped from Peterborough to London, however; RP took to long on the deal and Peterborough wasn't able to flip him (should have been like the Flint, Niagara, Barrie trade).

You add all that plus the fact this is his 8th season with the team and 7th as gm (with 6 coaches in that span) it may be time to get a different leader for the team. I also believe only 2 playoff series wins in the span and every round lost was a sweep.

 

[Wiserbud]

Fair enough, sound reasoning. At the end of the day, results determine good/bad. Saying that though, the impact of a good coach is also clear for our 'talent' depleted squad this year. Impressive effort (and results) for Barney as HC.

 

[Wolf on a Wire]

We are getting to the point of where good and bad don't really matter as much anymore. He came in in 2016 as vp of hockey ops, took over gm role in April 2017, a year later fired HC matsos who promptly won the ohl championship the next year. Replaced him with Stillman who stayed for 3 years, since then has had 5 head coaches in 4 years including 3 in one year.

Someone said GMs were envious some of the moves he made, however people also say gms hate dealing with him. People said he was being unreasonable with the ask for Thompson, rumored same situation with Musty this season. Also reportedly London and Peterborough were both pissed about how the Stillman trade went down, there was a report the Stillman was supposed to be flipped from Peterborough to London, however; RP took to long on the deal and Peterborough wasn't able to flip him (should have been like the Flint, Niagara, Barrie trade).

You add all that plus the fact this is his 8th season with the team and 7th as gm (with 6 coaches in that span) it may be time to get a different leader for the team. I also believe only 2 playoff series wins in the span and every round lost was a sweep.

Would you prefer a GM that settles for less value when discussing trades? you are critical that Paps asks for too much in return and over values his players. You make that sound like a bad thing.

I read that fans of the Icedogs are upset with their GM gives picks away and gets little value back on trades, is this what you want from our GM?
The element never discussed here is that good players don’t want to play north of Barrie. First round picks have a choices where they wanna play. Last year trades were apparently agreed on by the GMs by kiboshed by the players ( see name tag scandal).
Don’t get me wrong, our GM isn’t perfect and yes there should have been a coaching change last year and the Protz trade should have never happened.
But of the 20 GMs in the OHL how many have been fired or replaced? 6 or 7 years with one year of no hockey and no playoffs in 2019.
IMHO, we draft very well. Most First round NHL picks in past 6 years. Very successful in U18 draft. We make strong trades for the most parts. I’m confident the Wolves finally have a fantastic coaching staff.
We aren’t the Dodgers or Yankees (London/Kitchener), Sudbury is more like the Jays, strong fanbase with rich history but we will always be at a geographical disadvantage…

 

[dirty12]

Fair enough, sound reasoning. At the end of the day, results determine good/bad. Saying that though, the impact of a good coach is also clear for our 'talent' depleted squad this year. Impressive effort (and results) for Barney as HC.

talent depleted?! Stars, scrubs, and kids not ready to make an impact more accurately imo. Sacrifice the kids and the picks, there is top 2 in conference possibilities.

 

[dirty12]

Would you prefer a GM that settles for less value when discussing trades? you are critical that Paps asks for too much in return and over values his players. You make that sound like a bad thing.

I read that fans of the Icedogs are upset with their GM gives picks away and gets little value back on trades, is this what you want from our GM?
The element never discussed here is that good players don’t want to play north of Barrie. First round picks have a choices where they wanna play. Last year trades were apparently agreed on by the GMs by kiboshed by the players ( see name tag scandal).
Don’t get me wrong, our GM isn’t perfect and yes there should have been a coaching change last year and the Protz trade should have never happened.
But of the 20 GMs in the OHL how many have been fired or replaced? 6 or 7 years with one year of no hockey and no playoffs in 2019.
IMHO, we draft very well. Most First round NHL picks in past 6 years. Very successful in U18 draft. We make strong trades for the most parts. I’m confident the Wolves finally have a fantastic coaching staff.
We aren’t the Dodgers or Yankees (London/Kitchener), Sudbury is more like the Jays, strong fanbase with rich history but we will always be at a geographical disadvantage…

would prefer a GM that could assemble a roster given 3 lottery picks in 5 years that could win a game in round 2.
There are 18 teams no where near as attractive as Kitchener and London. Teams north of Barrie do not have much issue getting players when the team is good.

 

[agillarda]

Would you prefer a GM that settles for less value when discussing trades? you are critical that Paps asks for too much in return and over values his players. You make that sound like a bad thing.

I read that fans of the Icedogs are upset with their GM gives picks away and gets little value back on trades, is this what you want from our GM?
The element never discussed here is that good players don’t want to play north of Barrie. First round picks have a choices where they wanna play. Last year trades were apparently agreed on by the GMs by kiboshed by the players ( see name tag scandal).
Don’t get me wrong, our GM isn’t perfect and yes there should have been a coaching change last year and the Protz trade should have never happened.
But of the 20 GMs in the OHL how many have been fired or replaced? 6 or 7 years with one year of no hockey and no playoffs in 2019.
IMHO, we draft very well. Most First round NHL picks in past 6 years. Very successful in U18 draft. We make strong trades for the most parts. I’m confident the Wolves finally have a fantastic coaching staff.
We aren’t the Dodgers or Yankees (London/Kitchener), Sudbury is more like the Jays, strong fanbase with rich history but we will always be at a geographical disadvantage…

I'm not saying it's entirely a bad thing to want a big package but you do have to be reasonable. If you ask for the sun and the moon the other gms won't take you seriously or want to deal with you. I have said I think we got underpaid on the Thompson trade.

Most of the icedog trades you are talking about are the moves with London and those were all questionable for sure.

Of course 1st round picks get to pick where they go, that falls on RP to sell them on the city and organization, the new arena and facilities will help with that. Holmes has talked on BTB about the difference in our facilities to Windsor for example being night and day.

RP is always going to have a above average draft he was a scout by trade before he came to the Wolves. Yes GMs in the OHL have a longer shelf life that NHL GMs but their comes a point when you need to evaluate if the job is getting done and a total of 8 playoff wins in those 7 years. Generally 8 years is 2 full cycles in Junior.

 

[Wiserbud]

talent depleted?! Stars, scrubs, and kids not ready to make an impact more accurately imo. Sacrifice the kids and the picks, there is top 2 in conference possibilities.

Talent depleted "this year" ie relative to last season. But I think we are a better team now, thanks to the coaching staff.

 

[Wolfman Jack]

I will chime in here based on the rumor of a possible Goyette return. And if so here is what I would do with my GM hat on.

-Goyette returns as an OA. Wolves keep Musty
-Wolves deal McCoy and a 3rd, 5th, to Erie for Challenger
-Wolves deal Chitaroni and Digitomasso along with a 3rd and 7th for Guo, Chernyshov
-Wolves then deal Jackson to Owen Sound for Petrovski.

Wolves line up after deadline,

Walton Delic Pharand
Musty Goyette Chernyshov(San Jose draft pick)
Molnar Villeneuve Challenger
Henderson Clayton Coughlan
Dean Street

DeAngelios Ewles
Petrovski Guo
O'Dell Blonda
Bruce

I still think we would be a little weak on the RD but thoughts???


WJ