Stop Starting Vokoun
- Thread starter Lixxiq
- Start date
Vokoun has sucked lately. He needs to control rebounds better and stop diving around.16 goals in 3 games. That's not all on him though. Defense has been terrible.
#66
Registered User
Blaming MAF or Vokoun is really hiding the major problem and thats a sloppy defense. For all the draft picks and all the FA's, the Pens defense is a huge, HUGE problem... and I don't think its the manpower.
thecore
Registered User
One of the side effects of the best defense is a good offense system is that our D men are inexperienced and unprepared relative to others at actually breaking up a cycle and boxing out in front of the net.
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
Vokoun has not played well this year, he has looked shaky in his recent starts and has been fighting the puck. However, the defense has been terrible in front and is making him look worse than he should look.
I say keep giving him his 40% starts though because he hasn't been as bad as his recent stats indicate. He's giving Fleury rest and competition. Fleury has looked very solid all year and I think its because he has a solid veteran backing him up. He plays better when he has a threat to take games from him.
I say keep giving him his 40% starts though because he hasn't been as bad as his recent stats indicate. He's giving Fleury rest and competition. Fleury has looked very solid all year and I think its because he has a solid veteran backing him up. He plays better when he has a threat to take games from him.
defnese has been MUD lately but sans the deflected gianta goal he was terrible. TV needs to contro his rebounds. thats something MAF critics complained about for YEARS, now the guy that was supposed to be a solid goaltender looks horrific doing similar things.
bad rebounds, slow from post to post and bad angles on shooters. no reason that gionta blast shouldnt have been gloved (2nd) goal. pens worked their arses off to get back in that game and then a routine slapper from 5 ft inside the zone goes past him. it drove me nuts!!
even his second game vs NYR he gave up one goal but nyr hit 4 posts.
i personally think TVs ship has sailed. id start him only on back to back, and if MAF starts playing sh*tty in a string of games, which he hasnt.
bad rebounds, slow from post to post and bad angles on shooters. no reason that gionta blast shouldnt have been gloved (2nd) goal. pens worked their arses off to get back in that game and then a routine slapper from 5 ft inside the zone goes past him. it drove me nuts!!
even his second game vs NYR he gave up one goal but nyr hit 4 posts.
i personally think TVs ship has sailed. id start him only on back to back, and if MAF starts playing sh*tty in a string of games, which he hasnt.
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
If I could completely remove one line of rhetoric from these boards it would be this notion of bad rebounds, i.e. if you give up any rebounds whatsoever you're giving up too many rebounds. If a team is taking low, hard shots the goalie is flat out going to have to kick some of them out and probably most of them. That's why teams do it, to create rebounds. Now if pucks are bouncing off a guy's chest left and right yeah, he's having rebound problems. Other than that rebounds are going to happen so please get used to it.
LetangInTheSO
Registered User
- Oct 17, 2008
- 2,094
- 0
Of course many rebounds are inevitable. However, there's a big difference between directing rebounds ten feet forward directly into the slot or harmlessly into the corner. For whatever reason, Vokoun has made it a habit of kicking pucks directly into the slot all season long.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
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Eh, to a degree. I think the goalies with good rebound control do a good job of making sure those rebounds go to non-dangerous areas, like deflecting them into the corner or angling them over the glass, if possible.
Overall, though, I think a lot of the goals scored on Vokoun are Vokoun being sub-par. I think he can be a lot better. And while the defense (team defense) has been bad, I also think Vokoun should take some of the blame, just like I think Fleury deserves some of the blame last year for the Flyers' series even with poor defense in front of him.
rocky7
DAT 13
This makes sense. We know and most are happy that Vokoun was brought in to rest MAF. Perhaps Vokoun does need to work on his game and play better, but it's really the D that's the issue. He will still need to be sharp in case of an injury or poor play by MAF in the playoffs, but the D needs to be playing well regardless of who's in net.
rocky7
DAT 13
I agree with the rebound control and one would think that Vokoun knows this well as well. I think he will play better and come up big when needed. He knows perfectly well what's happening and will address the problems. IMO, Fleury was bagged last year and to me, he even appeared to have a leg injury because it looked like he wasn't as flexible as he usually was (could have been fatigue). Hopefully, Vokoun will pick it up a notch and MAF will be rested and healthy; ready for the playoffs. The very reason Vokoun was brought in and being the vet he is, will work on his issues, help out MAF with his experience, do what he has been called on to do and be ready if called on in the playoffs. No reason to panic at this point that I can see. They will work it out. Again, the defense is my bigger concern. That is what killed them last post season and it looks like little has changed so far. Bylsma was out coached and continues to be. He just always seems to be content with whatever is going on and/or doesn't know what to do. IMO, the Pens goaltending situation is just fine. Other concerns must be addressed.
I agree. You don't need to win the President's Trophy to win the Cup. Remember 91, 92, and 09?
wgknestrick
Registered User
- Aug 14, 2012
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radapex
Registered User
Goals 1, 2 and 4 were systemic issues. Gotta cover those guys better.
Goal 3 was a redirect on the PP - it happens.
Goals 5 and 6 are on Vokoun. Gotta have those.
sovietsanta87
Registered User
Is it the system or a lack of paying attention to detail on the players?
There wasnt a problem with the way the pens played defense in the playoffs of 09....certainly not in '11 either.
The defensemen need to clear out the crease and the forwards need to backcheck. That's not on Bylsma, that's on the players. He cant physically go out there and do those things for them.
There wasnt a problem with the way the pens played defense in the playoffs of 09....certainly not in '11 either.
The defensemen need to clear out the crease and the forwards need to backcheck. That's not on Bylsma, that's on the players. He cant physically go out there and do those things for them.
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
That one was half his fault. He flopped on it, but the skaters for the Penguins were horribly out of position.
radapex
Registered User
He was right there with Desharnais and bit hard. He didn't have any help from the D, but it's one he should've stopped regardless.
The 5th one was his fault. From what I can recall he tried to cover it but flubbed it.
The first one, while Defense must be boxing out the crease better that is still a horrible rebound. This is one my pet peeves, use YOUR STICK, he can go down with his pad out like that, with the stick in front of the pad. The puck ramps up and to the corner. Modern b-fly goalies lack good stick work like that in many cases. In this case, I think that Vokoun is actually trying to use his stick but just flat out missed it.
Goal 2 is tough but it is indicative of when a goalie doesn't fully trust his defense.
Notice (and he did this a few other times) that TK is more square to the slot area then the shooter. rather then turning his body and sealing the post paddle down or one pad up/one down. He is worried about a pass. Since his pads are pretty much on the goal line it lets the player walk through the crease. where if you form a wall a little more square to the shooter their only option is to pass really. I won't really blame Vokoun on this. Look at Tyler Kennedy in this. He doesn't stop at the top of the crease and prevent his guy from going over and having an easy goal. So I guess Vokoun was justified in worrying that no one would stop that guy crashing into the crease
But this is a good example of a goalie not trusting his D and making life worse. If he seals that short side off the puck can't/shouldn't squirt through to where the guy crashing the crease can bang it in.
Goal 4. he really should have that. He was in position ahead of time, but he was not square to the shooter and the puck just goes through him. It was a D breakdown, it was a good chance. But TK read it and just screwed it up really, once again I dunno if subconciously he is thinking there is a chance that the puck is being passed to the mid/high slot and that's why he is square in that direction.
5th one, he should have had at least "SOME" backward momentum going so that he wasn't down, stationary outside his crease. While it was a breakdown on D to let the player in all alone like that, Vokoun did nothing to help his cause with how he played that.
Goal 2 is tough but it is indicative of when a goalie doesn't fully trust his defense.
Notice (and he did this a few other times) that TK is more square to the slot area then the shooter. rather then turning his body and sealing the post paddle down or one pad up/one down. He is worried about a pass. Since his pads are pretty much on the goal line it lets the player walk through the crease. where if you form a wall a little more square to the shooter their only option is to pass really. I won't really blame Vokoun on this. Look at Tyler Kennedy in this. He doesn't stop at the top of the crease and prevent his guy from going over and having an easy goal. So I guess Vokoun was justified in worrying that no one would stop that guy crashing into the crease
But this is a good example of a goalie not trusting his D and making life worse. If he seals that short side off the puck can't/shouldn't squirt through to where the guy crashing the crease can bang it in.Goal 4. he really should have that. He was in position ahead of time, but he was not square to the shooter and the puck just goes through him. It was a D breakdown, it was a good chance. But TK read it and just screwed it up really, once again I dunno if subconciously he is thinking there is a chance that the puck is being passed to the mid/high slot and that's why he is square in that direction.
5th one, he should have had at least "SOME" backward momentum going so that he wasn't down, stationary outside his crease. While it was a breakdown on D to let the player in all alone like that, Vokoun did nothing to help his cause with how he played that.
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