Confirmed Signing with Link: [STL] Jake Allen re-signs (4 years, $4.35M AAV)

ChuckLefley

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
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Now that is one hell of an agent. seems crazy high for him.

I saw this on another forum, I look at occasionally, but don't post at:

He signed for the 21st highest salary amongst goalies. His stats have gotten better each year. If he just maintains his stats from last season (talking advanced stats as well) he would be in the same position as goalies who got big raises after one full season as a starter, like Holtby and Bishop. That would put him in the $6m range of salary at a time the Blues will have a number of free agents to sign and/or holes to fill.

It's really a bargain...unless he bombs big time and I don't see that happening.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
6,436
2,284
Lets recap:
-You've made a claim, I asked you to post numbers that back it up and you refused.
It's not the first time you've refused in this thread.

Reading is hard. Or are you just not able to see numbers and facts?

That would explain a lot actually.


Not wasting my time responding to you anymore.
 
Apr 30, 2012
21,162
5,681
St. Louis, MO
So what about the Blues scoring 2, 1, 1, 0 goals in their 4 losses the season Allen started the playoffs? Can you really blame Allen here by expecting a shutout to even have a chance at winning 3 of those games?

Oh so lack of goal support is an argument in Allen's favor, but it's ok for your to completely ignore the same for Elliott. Got it.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
6,436
2,284
Oh so lack of goal support is an argument in Allen's favor, but it's ok for your to completely ignore the same for Elliott. Got it.

Ummm Elliott got A LOT more goal support this past season than Allen got last season.

Also, Allen had a better GAA two seasons ago than Elliott last season.


Playoffs:

Blues GF/G 2015 (Allen in net) - 2.33 ***
Blues GF/G 2016 (Elliott in net) - 2.85

Allen (2015) GAA - 2.20
Elliott (2016) GAA - 2.44

Blues scored more goals and Elliott allowed more goals in 2016. where as the Blues scored less goals and Allen allowed less goals in 2015.

*** If you take out the ONE game where the Blues dropped 6 against Minny in 2015 they would have scored 8 goals in 6 games. That's a 1.33 GF/G for the 5 other games Allen played in. AKA, he had to post a shutout for minimum 2 more games that series to even have a CHANCE at moving on to the second round.


So yes, when the Blues are scoring a goal more a game when Elliott is in net its not the same thing at all. Stats and facts.

Got it?
 

Xerloris

reckless optimism
Jun 9, 2015
7,660
8,271
St.Louis
Ummm Elliott got A LOT more goal support this past season than Allen got last season.

Also, Allen had a better GAA two seasons ago than Elliott last season.


Playoffs:

Blues GF/G 2015 (Allen in net) - 2.33 ***
Blues GF/G 2016 (Elliott in net) - 2.85

Allen (2015) GAA - 2.20
Elliott (2016) GAA - 2.44

Blues scored more goals and Elliott allowed more goals in 2016. where as the Blues scored less goals and Allen allowed less goals in 2015.

*** If you take out the ONE game where the Blues dropped 6 against Minny in 2015 they would have scored 8 goals in 6 games. That's a 1.33 GF/G for the 5 other games Allen played in. AKA, he had to post a shutout for minimum 2 more games that series to even have a CHANCE at moving on to the second round.


So yes, when the Blues are scoring a goal more a game when Elliott is in net its not the same thing at all. Stats and facts.

Got it?

Allen played against the Wild, Elliott played against the Blackhawks, Stars and Sharks. I mean maybe quality of competition had something to do with it?
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
6,436
2,284
Allen played against the Wild, Elliott played against the Blackhawks, Stars and Sharks. I mean maybe quality of competition had something to do with it?

The argument was about goal support. So you are suggesting that the Blues scored more goals against better teams?

I wish that were the case.
 

BA Carroll

Registered User
Mar 2, 2014
307
54
What has Ells accomplished?

People forget how Allen put up amazing numbers the first half of the season last year that were at times better than Elliott's "amazing" second half. Not to mention the games the Blues lost last season with Allen as the starter in the playoffs the Blues scored 2 goals, 1 goal, 1 goal and 0 goals. I don't care who your goalie is but requiring shutouts to even have a chance at possibly moving on to the next round is not good.

Allen has great numbers and has had a pretty fantastic NHL career so far. People got so jacked for Ells I think because he was expected to be nothing and had a hot streak last season. Before last season he could never beat top teams and he was super inconsistent. Always played like a backup against lesser teams and won and lost games he sould have won.

I will never understand the love Ells got. He is a great person but it was time to move on. Allen is sharp and absolutely more athletic and technical.

Look at the stats, and average them since 2011-12. "...No goalie with at least 100 games played since 2011-12 has a better goals against average than Elliott. He also has the second-fewest losses since that year, trailing only Ray Emery in that department." http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nhl-w...ott-may-eventually-be-best-blues-goalie-ever/

Bernie Miklasz (whom I despise) wrote an excellent piece describing Elliot's tenure with the Blues. In all his time in StL, the only occasion when he was called upon as a playoff starter, he only succeeded in carrying us to the WCF, in spite of mediocre support. http://www.101sports.com/2016/02/17/moose-loose-brian-elliott-earning-no-1-goaltender-status/

In 2011-2012, in 38 games, Elliott earned bragging rights to the best save percentage in one season by an NHL goaltender, going 38 1.56 0.940. And his numbers ever since have been comparable. When he's not done well, it has been almost exclusively attributable to the team playing in front of him.

In fairness, Elliott tended to get much better goal support than Allen. I can't find the statistic, but the difference is significant--the team scores more goals when Elliott is in net. Some might use that against Elliott, arguing that Jake's win percentage in spite of less offensive support makes him a better netminder. I would counter that if the team is scoring more goals for Elliott, it's probably because they place more trust in him, and are able to focus more aggressively on offense when he's in net. I don't know that there is a statistic that can demonstrate this, apart from team puck possession numbers, but Blues fans who have watched the games closely know this is true--when Elliot plays, the Blues are much more active on the forecheck, spend more time in the offensive end, and play less "desperately" in their own end. I think that's a reflection on their confidence in their goalie.

I should also say that Allen's improved performance last year made that difference less noticeable than in previous years, but it was still there.

So why did the Blues elect not to reward their workhorse who brought them so much success? We may never know. But barring that inside info, there will always be fans like myself who feel the Blues made a bad choice. That's nothing against Allen, who is a fine goalie in his own right. But Elliott is a top five goaltender in the NHL, and he's going to prove it this season by carrying Calgary back into relevance. I wish him all the best. I'm grateful to have enjoyed seeing him wear the Bluenote as long as he did, and I'll still be rooting for him.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
6,436
2,284
Bernie Miklasz (whom I despise) wrote an excellent piece describing Elliot's tenure with the Blues. In all his time in StL, the only occasion when he was called upon as a playoff starter, he only succeeded in carrying us to the WCF, in spite of mediocre support. http://www.101sports.com/2016/02/17/moose-loose-brian-elliott-earning-no-1-goaltender-status/

Probably why you dispise him.

He had many playoff games before last season with the Blues and was not that good. He was even called on as the starter when Halak went down. Bernie does NOT know hockey.

Ells went on an amazing tear the last half of 2015-2016 and into the playoffs. No denying that. But it really was the only time he was able to beat top teams in the league and do it consistently.

Im not trying to shoot you down here but everyone can have their own opinion, sports writers just get paid for it. What I have been posting are cold hard facts and stats that show Allen has been the superior goalie. Hes younger, has more potential and is more technical. It was a no-brainer to roll with Allen. My opinion.
 

Claypool

Registered User
Jan 12, 2009
13,670
4,352
Isn't Hitchcock only coaching for one more season? I would have only signed Allen for one year.
 

Xerloris

reckless optimism
Jun 9, 2015
7,660
8,271
St.Louis
Probably why you dispise him.

He had many playoff games before last season with the Blues and was not that good. He was even called on as the starter when Halak went down. Bernie does NOT know hockey.

Ells went on an amazing tear the last half of 2015-2016 and into the playoffs. No denying that. But it really was the only time he was able to beat top teams in the league and do it consistently.

Im not trying to shoot you down here but everyone can have their own opinion, sports writers just get paid for it. What I have been posting are cold hard facts and stats that show Allen has been the superior goalie. Hes younger, has more potential and is more technical. It was a no-brainer to roll with Allen. My opinion.


Becoming the starter because of injury and being named the starter because the team has faith in you are very different. He was only named the starter this year and we saw what he did.

His worse playoff performance saw a GGA of 2.37 and a SV% of .904 which is still about what Allen achieved in his series vs the Wild. The difference is that Elliott still got us to the 2nd round with those numbers before we were eliminated by that freakish LA kings team.

His 2nd playoff performance was again against the Kings where he had a GAA of 1.90 and a SV% of .919. Both far superior to Allen and the only reason we didn't advance again is because the Blues couldn't score a goal to save their lives. The exact thing you're using as a defense to protect Allen.

The fact is Allen has positional problems and he lets in terrible goals because of it. He relies on athleticism to make saves rather than athleticism and good positioning and fundamentals. This is why so many people are worried about Allen going forward.
 

ChuckLefley

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
1,681
1,050
Reading is hard. Or are you just not able to see numbers and facts?

That would explain a lot actually.


Not wasting my time responding to you anymore.

I've seen your numbers and told you why wins mean nothing when talking about individuals. You've chose to ignore that multiple times.

Facts? I've seen your claims, but all you do is tell people to find anything else on their own. You're afraid to try to back up your claims because you know you can't.

All you have done here is make claims, provide team stats with no context, tell people to find the info themselves and ignore what doesn't suit you opinion.

I know you won't respond to me anymore because you can't. Go back to the asylum, you must be a star poster there.
 

StLHokie

Registered User
May 27, 2014
2,051
286
North Carolina
Becoming the starter because of injury and being named the starter because the team has faith in you are very different. He was only named the starter this year and we saw what he did.

His worse playoff performance saw a GGA of 2.37 and a SV% of .904 which is still about what Allen achieved in his series vs the Wild. The difference is that Elliott still got us to the 2nd round with those numbers before we were eliminated by that freakish LA kings team.

His 2nd playoff performance was again against the Kings where he had a GAA of 1.90 and a SV% of .919. Both far superior to Allen and the only reason we didn't advance again is because the Blues couldn't score a goal to save their lives. The exact thing you're using as a defense to protect Allen.

The fact is Allen has positional problems and he lets in terrible goals because of it. He relies on athleticism to make saves rather than athleticism and good positioning and fundamentals. This is why so many people are worried about Allen going forward.

Jake actually has a lower career playoff GAA than Brian Elliot had this post season. Sure, his save percentage happens to be a bit lower, but it's pretty clear that Elliot had a dramatically better team in front of him this year than Jake ever has in the playoffs. In Jake's playoff games, the Blues have barely averaged to score more than 2 goals per game. As opposed to the team Elliot had in front of him this year, who scored almost 3 goals per game. It is much harder as a goaltender to win with zero goal support, than it is when you don't have to worry about your team scoring goals. There is significantly less pressure to perform as a goaltender when you have the ability to win games 4-2 or 3-1, rather than 2-1 or 1-0.
 

Sempiternal

Registered User
Jul 5, 2014
3,460
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Good deal, but the Blues took a step back this offseason when they needed to take a step forward.
 

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