The Moose is Loose
Registered User
A 2nd
Even Rees alone I think is an overpayment
If Detroit gets sticky go Buffalo, Ottawa, Anaheim, Arizona, Seattle and offer them the same deal.
Proposal: STL - DET - CAR
- Thread starter mikeyfan
- Start date
Even Rees alone I think is an overpayment
If Detroit gets sticky go Buffalo, Ottawa, Anaheim, Arizona, Seattle and offer them the same deal.
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
I am not assuming that he will score 70+ points, I am however saying it is very likely he will pace 70+ points and 30 goals. I can confidently say Nino will likely not though.
As a disclaimer I do not think a trade like this will happen as Carolina really doesn't need a top 6 winger right now and Nino has good synergy with Staal as a 3rd line defensive winger. All I am arguing is that Tank, regardless of how many games he plays in the regular season, will very likely out pace Nino
DaveG
Noted Jerk
Man, for a Canes fan you sure as hell look for ways to f*** us over completely in value with just about every proposal you post.
mouser
Business of Hockey
Arizona got two 2nds and a conditional 3rd for taking on $5m cash in Andrew Ladd. And they probably value Ladd as a $750k-900k roster warm body. Which would turn the dead money into $3.2m to $3.5m for the two 2nd and cond 3rd.
PullHard
☂
- Jul 18, 2007
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No guessing required, just go to capfriendly and see that Panik is the only retention currently ongoing in Detroit, so 2 retention slots are most certainly available. Be sure of it!
mikeyfan
Registered User
- Dec 27, 2018
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You can’t win with potential in the minors we are overloaded with centers, Detroit needs centers and Tank on the wing with either Necas or Svech is more deadly than Nino Our PP could use that one timer from the dot and we have the skilled players who can make that one time pass I love the canes futures, but that is all they are, we don’t know what they will turn out to be at the NHL level. We do know what Tank has done.
With JK, Suzuki, and Drury in the wings where does that leave Rees? He won’t stay in the minors forever.
Also, if we feel the need for Tank at the trade deadline it could cost more.
Cardiac Jerks
Asinine & immoral
Someone had to pick up where Jerome left off.
This is terrible for Carolina. As others have suggested, I think St. Louis hangs on to Tarasenko for now. He can increase his trade value by playing well, which by all accounts he seems willing to do.
Syckle78
Registered User
mouser
Business of Hockey
Unless I’m mistaken Arizona took on a 5.5M cap hit for 2 years with that $5M cash.
Here, Detroit would be taking on a 2.5M cap hit for 2 years with that $5M cash.
Less than half the cap hit Ladd is taking up drops the compensation quite a bit.
That said, hell no to this. Carolina using its remaining cap space on Kotkaniemi instead of Tarasenko and letting Hamilton walk away indicated they are not going all in on the next 2 years; they are trying to plan longer term. Doing a 180 on that plan before the season even starts doesn’t make sense.
mouser
Business of Hockey
I agree with your general principle. What makes cap dumps and retention interesting is teams place different values on cash paid and cap space used, and those values can change year to year for any given team.
For example Toronto would have no problem paying $6m cash for a 1st round draft pick, but $6m of cap space is far more valuable to Toronto right now then burning cap space for a draft pick.
Whereas Ottawa would be fine burning $6m of cap space for a draft pick, but $6m of cash is more valuable to Ottawa then $6m of cap space. So I’d guess they’d want more then a 1st for $6m cash.
Looking at Detroit and Arizona I think they’re both in a similar situation the next two seasons where the cap space consumed in a dump trade is less important, and the trade value would be driven more by the cash outlay side of the equation. Neither the Wings nor the Coyotes are going to be constrained by the cap.
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Syckle78
Registered User
GIN ANTONIC
Registered User
This absolutely atrocious and you shouldn’t be allowed back on our board
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
If Carolina wants a one timer on the PP, why would Tarasenko be the target? He passes up one timer opportunities to dust off the puck for wrist shots.
Most of these moves are not cash flow related; most are cap space constraints. In your example we see Arizona, a team that was behind in paying player bonus money and on paying its arena rent, taking on $5M for draft picks. Why? Because if cash flow is an issue, they took on $11M in cap space for an additional $5M in payroll. That allows for a cheaper payroll if they so choose.
The Islanders weren't trying to get rid of cash payments, they needed cap space. 2 2nds were not the price for $5M in cash over 2 years, it was for $5.5M in cap space per year which is much more valuable and hard to come by.
Trying to open up cap space was also the issue with the Leafs and Marleau, or this move with Tarasenko. If $5M in cash is too rich for Detroit (and I highly doubt that) then Carolina and St. Louis could try to find another team willing to lay out that cap space for draft picks.
The cap space is the league-wide limited commodity.
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newsportsfan123
Registered User
- Dec 16, 2019
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nino's selling point is his two-way game. nino is miles ahead of tarasenko defensively
Attachments
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
Idc what Nino's selling point is, the fact 8s he is extremely likely to not have a higher points per game.
I even said further down that I doubt Carolina does this because their top 6 is already set and they need Nino's defensive game more
GIN ANTONIC
Registered User
Nino was also playing at a near 30 goal pace last year so if Nino can replicate 30 + 20 over a full season Tarasenko would have to come a long way back to be more valuable than that especially considering Nino’s two-way play. It’s certainly far from a guarantee
Oddbob
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2016
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Detroit got a 2nd for 1 year of Marc Staal, and they also got Staal as a player in the deal. Here they are paying the same money, using up dead space for 2 years and not getting a player in the deal. That is definitely worth more than a late 2nd round pick.
But this retention is taking up less than half the cap per year than Marc Staal took up. It's 2 years, but only $2.5M per year in space. Finding someone who will take a $5.5M cap space hit for a year is more difficult.
mouser
Business of Hockey
It's also eating up a retention slot for two years, which is a limited resource, and thus has value as well.
BStinson
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2013
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Depends on the team. Detroit could and would prefer (based on Yzerman’s press conferences) a single 5.5M hit versus 2.75M for two years. We already have a retention slot going to Panik so we’d essentially only have one for TDL. Staal is interesting because he was owed significantly less than his cap and he was a roster player for us so essentially around 2.2M cash for a second rounder (3.2M - ~1M roster spot). Savard retention last TDL was roughly 100k cash IIRC for a fourth rounder. Teams value cap/cash/retention slots differently.
