Steve Yzerman is not a good GM.

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

If only Wings fans had realized this years ago and begged Ken Holland to come back.

 

[norrisnick]

People keep bringing up Toronto as if I have ever claimed that they have done anything but underachieve, when the reality is under Keefe and Dubas they did fail, and that's why after 5 straight years of failure they got fired and rightly so because they didn't make enough progress, I can't say 0 progress because they did end the 19 year series win drought.

But that alone is not nearly enough so they got fired.

Now new people are in charge and we will see if it works out under Treliving and Berube.

Doesn't charge the fact that Yzerman has accomplished even less than Dubas and Keefe did, Which is saying a lot because Dubas is among the worst GM'S in the league and Keefe IS the worst coach in the league but even those 2 idiots got the team to the playoffs.

Yzerman can't even hit that low bar.

Absolutely massive feat. Getting a team that was [checks notes] already a playoff team, back into the playoffs.

 

[dekelikekocur]

How so? I've consistently argued that a five year window is enough time to build a contender and I continue to provide examples of such.

That's not changing the topic.

I think he doesn't see your logic.
By your logic, a rebuild doesn't start till a team has had the chance to draft 1st/2nd overall multiple times.
So you're arguing that Det isn't even in a rebuild yet.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Absolutely massive feat. Getting a team that was [checks notes] already a playoff team, back into the playoffs.

Seriously can that poster be any more lost about both his own team and the red wings lmao

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Yzerman inherited a bunch of crap, it was always going to take time barring some unexpected draft miracle.

Too early to judge how his Wings tenure turns out.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

To be fair, the coaching staff isn't getting the most out of those signings. Everyone outside of Compher has underachieved, based on their contracts. Not that they deserved them to begin with.

Most UFAs become UFAs for a reason. The few that are still good(ish), generally want to sign with a winning team, which leaves a lot of crap for the rebuilding teams to cobble together into a lineup while they build through the draft. The important thing to remember is that most of those guys are simply placeholders, and were signed primarily because it didn't cost any futures to acquire them, not because they fit into the long term plan. I think of it like buying a really cheap camper to sleep in while you're building a new house.

And when you're building through the draft, it's not really a bad thing to still kind of suck for the first few years, so you can get a few more top 10 picks into the prospect pool while you still can.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Their rebuild started in 2017 not 2019 and he had already thr most valuable asset on the roster, their 1C

I’m so tired of listening to how he had to start from nothing and be the excuse for the next 10 years. Their future still doesn’t look that bright.

Longterm would rather have Buffalos and Montreals rosters from the basement teams from the Atlantic and Montreal has been rebuilding for way shorter amount

Just because a team is not good doesn't mean they were doing rebuilding properly in 2017. They still had a bunch of veterans on bad contracts, and they wouldn't scorch the earth while Zetterberg was still there.

2019 was the first season when they went full tank mode. Yzerman took the job knowing very well he won't be helping the team to get better in the first couple years. I believe one of the first things he said was there's going to be pain.

 

[SavoieSeason]

I mean as an average hockey fan that doesn’t know much about how the team looked when he inherited the GM position, yeah one could say he hasn’t had success because they haven’t made the playoffs.

But then if you dig deeper you can see how the team did not have any stock pile of prospects and regardless of horrible lottery pick luck, still managed to replenish a rather anemic prospect pool.

He isn’t trying to put together a bubble playoff team. He’s building a Stanley cup winning team. Again if you take a bit of a deeper look you can see what he’s trying to accomplish by who he’s been drafting: lots of character guys. Fast. Bigger size….

Is the process taking longer than most hoped? I would agree to the average hockey fan, yes it seems like the team hasn’t been progressing fast enough.

If you check the teams stats over the past few seasons, they have constantly improved while being able to properly develop some of the prospects year after year.

Will the team regress this year? In all honestly this isn’t the roster that’s going to be winning the next cup for the franchise, pending a small miracle, this is the roster to help insulate some of the younger players on the team, while creating the basis of a winning culture styled attitude; being a true pro and allowing some extra time for the younger players not yet on the big team to develop for the new future. So if it regresses…. It’s not the end of the world.

The Walman trade happened because of a locker room altercation that took place during the season. He put himself in a bad position moving forward this year, hence why he was given away. Trading him also created more cap flexibility for signing Stamkos who Detroit was highly rumoured in being interested in.

At the end of the day winning a championship is the ultimate goal, and if you compare Detroit to the majority of the league, they have all won the same amount of cups in the past 10 years. If you look even closer at their division, teams not named Tampa or Florida haven’t had much if any success progressing deep into the playoffs at all.

So at the end of the day I guess the question really comes down to if you’re satisfied as a fan just making the playoffs and losing after a round or maybe 2, or if your goal is a few steps further and less short sighted, of actually winning a Stanley Cup.

it's been 5 years and he's still 5 years away, HF could have done a better job

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Detroit didn't actually exit compete mode until the 2018 TDL. Anybody saying otherwise is full of shit.

They may have missed in 2017, but they were still trying to compete, not rebuild.

 

[saska sault]

Just because a team is not good doesn't mean they were doing rebuilding properly in 2017. They still had a bunch of veterans on bad contracts, and they wouldn't scorch the earth while Zetterberg was still there.

2019 was the first season when they went full tank mode. Yzerman took the job knowing very well he won't be helping the team to get better in the first couple years. I believe one of the first things he said was there's going to be pain.

He's been preaching patients and bracing fans for pain as recently as last off season. His interviews up until recently have pretty much said it's still about building up and there will be painful stretches.

 

[StreetHawk]

Agreed. I wasn't even considering the existing roster. I am not going to play the comparison game like most other's here. Y made some FA mistakes, sure, but he's playing the long game.

Det needs more high end talent. Simply as that. not sure if Kasper/Daneilson offer that up front to the extent that they need. A GM is only as good as their scouting and player development staffs. To find talent and to develop it. A new GM isn't going to be able to overhaul the entire staff in a year. Not sure if the NHL has a league wide policy regarding hiring say a regional scout from another team to be your head scout (ie. they can leave with term on their deal if it's a clear promotion), or whether they need to honour their contract with the other club.

But, Y needs to acquire better talent, either via the draft or via trades.

 

[WarriorofTime]

+130 to make playoffs and -160 to miss playoffs.

That's gotta be a minimum bar for next year. You can't miss playoffs six straight seasons, when you took over after already having missed twice in a row, without a serious mea culpa that the beginning years of your tenure were a dud and you had to rebuild the rebuild.

 

[thebestnic]

Larkin has been surpassed by Seider in value and will likely be passed by Raymond in the next year or two, at least as far as play quality goes. You could argue value due to position.

Maybe try that one again.

Seider is overrated. Larkin is still their best player by far and you only need to look at how bad they looked without him last year to know that

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Seider is overrated. Larkin is still their best player by far and you only need to look at how bad they looked without him last year to know that

Yeah bro Seider's very overrated. Only faced some of the worst matchups a defenseman has faced in the last 15 years.

 

[deckercky]

One thing I really like about what he's done is overpaying veterans to fill out the roster on short term contracts. The cap space doesn't matter in the timeframe of the contracts, but he's not handcuffing the team.

I don't know the team prospects well enough to evaluate that, but at some point, there will be some young players break out and the team will be well enough positioned to build around them.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

One thing I really like about what he's done is overpaying veterans to fill out the roster on short term contracts. The cap space doesn't matter in the timeframe of the contracts, but he's not handcuffing the team.

I don't know the team prospects well enough to evaluate that, but at some point, there will be some young players break out and the team will be well enough positioned to build around them.

People don't seem to get that every contract is structured to expire when the cap would be needed to extend one of their ELCs lol.

He's literally plugging holes to keep the team from sinking into a loser mindset while his kids develop, and people don't seem to get that.

 

[thebestnic]

Yeah bro Seider's very overrated. Only faced some of the worst matchups a defenseman has faced in the last 15 years.

Yah I heard he's the only D in history who got matched against the best players on the other team

 

[TruePowerSlave]

People don't seem to get that every contract is structured to expire when the cap would be needed to extend one of their ELCs lol.

He's literally plugging holes to keep the team from sinking into a loser mindset while his kids develop, and people don't seem to get that.

There is the argument that sucking more would get better results in the long-run. The franchise altering talent usually gets picked in the top 5. It's a league that heavily rewards failure after all.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yah I heard he's the only D in history who got matched against the best players on the other team

What part of worst matchups in 15 years didn't you get?

There is the argument that sucking more would get better results in the long-run. The franchise altering talent usually gets picked in the top 5. It's a league that heavily rewards failure after all.

Yeah it did wonders for Detroit in the multiple lotteries where they got f***ed and dropped lol.

On the other hand, we got to see Raymond emerge as a line driver playing in meaningful games at the end of the season, rather than spin our wheels like Ottawa and Buffalo seem to be doing, even though both were supposedly ahead of us in their rebuilds.

Point being, yes, you can get meaningful talent by tanking. But the years Detroit did tank they got absolutely screwed in the lottery, and you can only be in the gutter for so long before you get stuck there, a la Buffalo.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Yeah it did wonders for Detroit in the multiple lotteries where they got f***ed and dropped lol.

On the other hand, we got to see Raymond emerge as a line driver playing in meaningful games at the end of the season, rather than spin our wheels like Ottawa and Buffalo seem to be doing, even though both were supposedly ahead of us in their rebuilds.

The Wings did get shafted with the lottery.

Sure tanking can backfire, especially if the organization is run by muppets. However, if the intention is to lift a cup nothing has proven to be even remotely as successful as sucking badly and picking franchise player(s) at the draft.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

The Wings did get shafted with the lottery.

Sure tanking can backfire, especially if the organization is run by muppets. However, if the intention is to lift a cup nothing has proven to be even remotely as successful as sucking badly and picking franchise player(s) at the draft.

I mean yeah... We tried that and got f***ed lol.

It's been painfully evident since getting f***ed in the lottery that if Detroit is going to be a Cup contending team they'll have to be a STL or a Vegas or a Florida rather than Colorado/Pittsburgh/Chicago. Which is kinda why they've been drafting a shit ton of high compete level complete players that are a pain in the dick to play against.

 

[thebestnic]

What part of worst matchups in 15 years didn't you get?



Yeah it did wonders for Detroit in the multiple lotteries where they got f***ed and dropped lol.

On the other hand, we got to see Raymond emerge as a line driver playing in meaningful games at the end of the season, rather than spin our wheels like Ottawa and Buffalo seem to be doing, even though both were supposedly ahead of us in their rebuilds.

Point being, yes, you can get meaningful talent by tanking. But the years Detroit did tank they got absolutely screwed in the lottery, and you can only be in the gutter for so long before you get stuck there, a la Buffalo.

Here's Zaitsev with similar results. Not sure what your point is anyway. I said Seider was overrated based on people ranking him as top 10-15D and saying he's more valuable than Larkin(who is actually a top 10-15C).

 

[Zarzh]

What part of worst matchups in 15 years didn't you get?



Yeah it did wonders for Detroit in the multiple lotteries where they got f***ed and dropped lol.

On the other hand, we got to see Raymond emerge as a line driver playing in meaningful games at the end of the season, rather than spin our wheels like Ottawa and Buffalo seem to be doing, even though both were supposedly ahead of us in their rebuilds.

Point being, yes, you can get meaningful talent by tanking. But the years Detroit did tank they got absolutely screwed in the lottery, and you can only be in the gutter for so long before you get stuck there, a la Buffalo.

Only lottery that was impactful was the 2020 one if we're talking about losses, 2017 you miss Mittlestadt but any of the next 4 picks could've been better. 2019 could have even been a good thing if it stopped Yzerman from picking Turcotte.

They just didn't tank enough.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Here's Zaitsev with similar results. Not sure what your point is anyway. I said Seider was overrated based on people ranking him as top 10-15D and saying he's more valuable than Larkin(who is actually a top 10-15C). View attachment 902394 View attachment 902393

Honestly your assessment that Seider is "Overrated" for being called a Top 10-15D is less baffling than your claim that Larkin is a surefire Top 10-15C.

And I like Larkin.

 

[thebestnic]

Honestly your assessment that Seider is "Overrated" for being called a Top 10-15D is less baffling than your claim that Larkin is a surefire Top 10-15C.

And I like Larkin.

Why would I care how he is deployed if he doesn't get results with that deployment. Should I be comparing him to Andy Greene, Tyler Myers and Dion Phaneuf ?