Confirmed with Link: Stepan and Raanta for Arizona 2017 7th Overall and DeAngelo Mod Post #286

[Raspewtin]

That's​ not how it went.

The Girardi pushback was that he still belonged in the NHL, albiet in a more sheltered role. We had a loud contingent of posters here saying he belonged in the AHL period and that's where things got contentious.

The Stepan thing was recognizing his production was steadily declining (see his ppg the past few years) and the team's ability to shop him league-wide was about to go bye-bye.

An equally large contingent of this board thought he was not a problem, particularly in the playoffs, and latched on to the fantasy of "just give him less minutes". Girardi was thrown every courtesy in the book by this board whether it was "he needs rest" "he needs less minutes" "the system hurts him" and whether it may have been true or not, this board would not see Girardi for what he was until it literally couldn't be clearer. And some still don't.

The fact that Stepan, the best forward we've drafted in a million years, was ran out of town after one bad playoffs (and yes, you're right his totals have gone down two years now, but the playoffs absolutely pushed the train forward) and we couldn't wait to get rid of him. Probably the most underrated NYR, period, in the last 20 years. At his absolute worst Stepan was better at his position than Girardi could dream of and he got basically nothing from this whole fanbase his whole time here.

The hypocrisy is outstanding. I'm not even talking about value based anymore, the way Stepan has been perceived by this fanbase the last three years has been embarrassing.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Stepans numbers hasn't really declined though, he's Mr Consistency on a year-to-year basis. I dare anyone to find 10 more consistent players on a year-to-year basis in the last 5 years.

 

[Placid]

The fact that Stepan, the best forward we've drafted in a million years, was ran out of town after one bad playoffs....

Any kind of "running out of town" scenario probably had 100 percent to do with his incoming NTC, and not any other factors.

Steps has a high salary, and while he was easily one of my favorite Rangers, he has deficiencies. These are more than likely to be more telling as he is piling on the years (some would say that they already are), and i would imagine that management didn't dare to have him locked to the team for potentially another 4 years.

If that was a smart decision or not is something we can debate to the cows come home, but ultimately, we are not making any of the decisions, we are just fans of the team

 

[Ail]

Any kind of "running out of town" scenario probably had 100 percent to do with his incoming NTC, and not any other factors.

I think Rasp just means Ranger fans couldn't wait to get see Stepan go despite him being one of their best forwards since joining the team. Not that the fans had any actual impact.

He's 100% correct, Stepan, who was a second round pick that no one even thought was going to become even close to a legitimate first line center, was **** on his entire career for not being a "true" number one center, and because he skated funny. Yet a skating toxic waste barrel like Girardi was given so much credit that he didn't even deserve because of the Hall of Fame goaltender playing behind him. Criminal.

 

[Leetch3]

it took this board 3 ****ing years to admit Girardi was rapidly declining but Stepan has one "bad" playoffs" and he needed to be dumped asap

k

imo if stepan didn't have a NTC kicking in on 7/1 there is 0% chance we would have moved him for the return we got. that forced gorton's hand and he opted to sell too early over too late

also think that a big part of the reasoning behind moving stepan is the fact that you can't just keep coming back with the same core that failed to get it done. you don't need to blow up the core, but we definitely needed to change the core

 

[Placid]

I think Rasp just means Ranger fans couldn't wait to get see Stepan go despite him being one of their best forwards since joining the team. Not that the fans had any actual impact.

There are always some that will hate a player regardless of his skill/impact. That is not likely to ever change. But i dont think the majority of fans here "couldn't wait to see him go".

He's 100% correct, Stepan, who was a second round pick that no one even thought was going to become even close to a legitimate first line center, was **** on his entire career for not being a "true" number one center, and because he skated funny.

I refer you to my above answer. Some people you just cannot satisfy. You could field the best team in the history of hockey, and they'd still find all kinds of faults.

Yet a skating toxic waste barrel like Girardi was given so much credit that he didn't even deserve because of the Hall of Fame goaltender playing behind him. Criminal.

That is the opposite of what i described above. Like some will never accept a player, some cannot find a fault with a player they like, even if it is literally hitting them in the face.

Which can be frustrating

 

[bl02]

imo if stepan didn't have a NTC kicking in on 7/1 there is 0% chance we would have moved him for the return we got. that forced gorton's hand and he opted to sell too early over too late

also think that a big part of the reasoning behind moving stepan is the fact that you can't just keep coming back with the same core that failed to get it done. you don't need to blow up the core, but we definitely needed to change the core

Spot on. Anyone who hates on stepan totally unfair but reality is that ntc was soon to kick in.
Those ntc's are the freaking pits. Horrible. Necessary or unnecessary i don't know but they just tie your hands in so many ways down the road

 

[NickyFotiu]

An equally large contingent of this board thought he was not a problem, particularly in the playoffs, and latched on to the fantasy of "just give him less minutes". Girardi was thrown every courtesy in the book by this board whether it was "he needs rest" "he needs less minutes" "the system hurts him" and whether it may have been true or not, this board would not see Girardi for what he was until it literally couldn't be clearer. And some still don't.

The fact that Stepan, the best forward we've drafted in a million years, was ran out of town after one bad playoffs (and yes, you're right his totals have gone down two years now, but the playoffs absolutely pushed the train forward) and we couldn't wait to get rid of him. Probably the most underrated NYR, period, in the last 20 years. At his absolute worst Stepan was better at his position than Girardi could dream of and he got basically nothing from this whole fanbase his whole time here.

The hypocrisy is outstanding. I'm not even talking about value based anymore, the way Stepan has been perceived by this fanbase the last three years has been embarrassing.

You have some legit points but Gorton likely does not care about what this board says about our players. Also Gorton had been speaking to people including Arizona for over a year about Stepan so it was not just this years playoffs. I always say this is a great game but a horrible business. Sadly (and unfairly) contracts can get guys traded who have played hard and well. I personally do not like that aspect of a capped league at all.

 

[Inferno]

Stepan needed to be traded because he has a bad contract and is still coveted.

I think the return was garbage though. Stepans good enough that I would have preferred to just have kept him.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Stepan needed to be traded because he has a bad contract and is still coveted.

I think the return was garbage though. Stepans good enough that I would have preferred to just have kept him.

I was of the camp that understood it might be time to move him but I really would have liked to get back a proven player like Domi in addition to the #7. That may have been impossible but that was my hope.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Agreed. Although I feel the same way about Girardi and I'm know we don't agree there.

I wonder what the next huge bone of contention will be. Stepan is gone. Girardi is gone. Glass is gone (well, I'm pretty sure). Maybe it'll be Deangelo and whether or not we can accept him being a jerk. Kinda feels like Hayes is heading towards being a polarizing figure too.

McDonagh.

They are already starting it.

Staal is the main point of contention until he's gone though.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The fans protect Hank.

He's been **** for two seasons, they refuse to criticize him.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

The fans protect Hank.

He's been **** for two seasons, they refuse to criticize him.

two seasons? He was a top 3 goalie in the league 15/16. He also wasn't that bad this season, he was just under league average, which isn't great but it's not that bad either.

McDonagh? he's AMAZING...

I think ur just way off here.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

two seasons? He was a top 3 goalie in the league 15/16. He also wasn't that bad this season, he was just under league average, which isn't great but it's not that bad either.

McDonagh? he's AMAZING...

I think ur just way off here.

I've heard this argument for Hank's 15/16 season a million times, don't agree with it. He was every much a problem that season as the defense.

And I'm not saying McDonagh deserves the criticism, I'm saying its already starting. The fans have little respect for our best player.

 

[Irishguy42]

Inb4 this was a jinx post and Hank has a Vezina/CS worthy season next year

 

[GregSirico]

The fans protect Hank.

He's been **** for two seasons, they refuse to criticize him.

I was hard on him last year ... he was bad. He rebounded in the playoffs, but his reg season was bad.

 

[NYRFAN218]

I was of the camp that understood it might be time to move him but I really would have liked to get back a proven player like Domi in addition to the #7. That may have been impossible but that was my hope.

From the sounds of it, it looks like his contract was a major issue in getting a better return. Brooks made it seem that the Coyotes were the only team that came forward with a legit offer for him.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I've heard this argument for Hank's 15/16 season a million times, don't agree with it. He was every much a problem that season as the defense.

And I'm not saying McDonagh deserves the criticism, I'm saying its already starting. The fans have little respect for our best player.

No, he wasn't. We faced an insane shot quality so when adjusting for that he was very very good. You are objectively wrong about Hank 15/16.

 

[aufheben]

It will be interesting to see how this affects the Rangers. Since that hat-trick against the Sabres, Derek has played in nearly every Ranger game for the last seven years, while handling a lot of responsibility. I'm totally comfortable having Zibanejad as our #1C; Hayes is the part I'm nervous about.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

It will be interesting to see how this affects the Rangers. Since that hat-trick against the Sabres, Derek has played in nearly every Ranger game for the last seven years, while handling a lot of responsibility. I'm totally comfortable having Zibanejad as our #1C; Hayes is the part I'm nervous about.

Yeah, Hayes and our random new top-9 C, will be interesting... I'm especially worried because of how AV sees Hayes, he might give him the tough matchups now, that's scary.

 

[aufheben]

Yeah, Hayes and our random new top-9 C, will be interesting... I'm especially worried because of how AV sees Hayes, he might give him the tough matchups now, that's scary.

We'll see. Brassard went from that same offensive 3rd line role to arguably the team's best center. I don't really see the D-zone awareness in Hayes but if he can even not be a trainwreck there, that would be really huge.

I for one have not given up on Zibanejad becoming an incontestable #1C either. His production has improved every season of his career, and he's still pretty young. Not a Toews or Kopitar but if he can step into Ryan Johansen territory I think we're all set there.

 

[NickyFotiu]

From the sounds of it, it looks like his contract was a major issue in getting a better return. Brooks made it seem that the Coyotes were the only team that came forward with a legit offer for him.

Reports are that Arizona looked in to Stepan for year. I wonder if his price went up or down in the last year. I know draft picks are fun so I was happy to get #7 but because we do have a good team already I was hoping to get one proven player (Domi) as well. I would have thrown in a prospect or a pick.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

We'll see. Brassard went from that same offensive 3rd line role to arguably the team's best center. I don't really see the D-zone awareness in Hayes but if he can even not be a trainwreck there, that would be really huge.

I for one have not given up on Zibanejad becoming an incontestable #1C either. His production has improved every season of his career, and he's still pretty young. Not a Toews or Kopitar but if he can step into Ryan Johansen territory I think we're all set there.

Sure, but AV never used Brassard as some kind of a DZone guy either, he does with Hayes, which worries me a lot.
Imagine if AV think "Yeah, Hayes can take Stepans matchups, he's the best option", that is absolutely terrifying to me, i think he'd get completely destroyed.

If Hayes usage and deplyment reminded of Brassards then i would be calm here, but it doesn't.

 

[mike14]

Deceiving stats the way you posted it out of context. The last 2 years he had 4G & 4A in 17 playoff games. I expect a lot more from my 1C @6.5

* Regular*season Playoffs
Season Team League GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
2012–13 New York Rangers NHL 48 18 26 44 12 12 4 1 5 2
2013–14 New York Rangers NHL 82 17 40 57 18 24 5 10 15 2
2014–15 New York Rangers NHL 68 16 39 55 22 19 5 7 12 10
2015–16 New York Rangers NHL 72 22 31 53 20 5 2 0 2 0
2016–17 New York Rangers NHL 81 17 38 55 16 12 2 4 6 4
NHL totals 515 128 232 360 130 97 19 30 49 24

What's deceiving about them? During our last two big playoff runs those were his numbers. That was the context in which I posted them.
Everyone sucked against Pitt in 15/16 because we were totally outclassed and he had a bad playoff these year.
You are entitled to think that your $6.5m 1C will be a playoff beast every year, but be prepared for disappointment.

 

[GregSirico]

It will be interesting to see how this affects the Rangers. Since that hat-trick against the Sabres, Derek has played in nearly every Ranger game for the last seven years, while handling a lot of responsibility. I'm totally comfortable having Zibanejad as our #1C; Hayes is the part I'm nervous about.

I still see Zib as a high 2 low 1, eventually in a year or so I can def see him as a #1, but not at the moment, and Hayes ceiling is a 2, but right now he's more of a true high 3, and if we want to compete with Pittsburgh, we need that #1.