Sportsnet: Stars and Hawks talking Seth Jones

[CanadianHawks]

People talking about Jones as a second pair D man are vastly underestimating his game. He’s a number 2 D man without hesitation. A top pair RHD. Who knows how he ages but those guys still have a lot of value, especially with retention and a contract dump.

Anyone outside of the Makar/Heiskanen/Hughes level of Norris candidates are gonna get exposed on a team as bad as the Hawks have been the past few years. 25 mins a game while carrying a kid or a washed up vet most of his time. He rarely plays with Vlasic. A Doboer as coach paired with Heiskanen and you likely see the same player from his peak in CBJ when he can play within himself instead of trying to do too much.

 

[LT]

People talking about Jones as a second pair D man are vastly underestimating his game. He’s a number 2 D man without hesitation. A top pair RHD. Who knows how he ages but those guys still have a lot of value, especially with retention and a contract dump.

Anyone outside of the Makar/Heiskanen/Hughes level of Norris candidates are gonna get exposed on a team as bad as the Hawks have been the past few years. 25 mins a game while carrying a kid or a washed up vet most of his time. He rarely plays with Vlasic. A Doboer as coach paired with Heiskanen and you likely see the same player from his peak in CBJ when he can play within himself instead of trying to do too much.

This is the problem with his value, and coupled with his contract, is why I think he'll be an offseason move. Assuming he gets moved at all.

 

[Space umpire]

Except Bob McKenzie doesn’t make these picks lol. You think he goes around scouting all these guys at his age?

Bob gets the consensus from scouts of 10 NHL teams.

A consensus from 10 scouts. Not the scouts from 10 teams.

 

[Zapp]

Huh? You have far too high of expectations for a late 1st rounder. I am by no means writing him off, simply a late 1st is most likely a 3rd line caliber player

You can’t be this hypocritical can you? Where did you see me say anything about high expectations for Hemming? You’re guilty of what you just threw a little fit over not even 2 posts ago now.

You’re the only one putting final determinations on an 18 year old kid who just got drafted last year. And don’t say I’m putting those words in your mouth because it’s literally in your post.

Idk why this even got this far. Like I said, you have no credibility here so continuing this conversation like either of us are gonna get anything out of it seems crazy. The thread is about Jones and Stars fans clearly disagree without about the valuations. You’re just wasting time now .

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You can’t be this hypocritical can you? Where did you see me say anything about high expectations for Hemming? You’re guilty of what you just threw a little fit over not even 2 posts ago now.

You’re the only one putting final determinations on an 18 year old kid who just got drafted last year. And don’t say I’m putting those words in your mouth because it’s literally in your post.

Idk why this even got this far. Like I said, you have no credibility here so continuing this conversation like either of us are gonna get anything out of it seems crazy. The thread is about Jones and Stars fans clearly disagree without about the valuations. You’re just wasting time now .

You completely disregarded my entire post because I called a spade a spade. Tell me then, how is my projection of a late 1st rounder becoming a 3rd liner ridiculous? I never put a limit on what he could or could not become, I said realistically speaking a 3rd liner is probably his ceiling. That is quite standard for someone drafted in that position.

I get that fans get hung up on their prospects but you are being completely unreasonable.

 

[u2wojo]

Hanifin was traded for a 1st a 3rd and a bottom-pairing d prospect.

That's sort of what i'd expect for Seth Jones.

Hanifin was a pending UFA under team control for a month and a half when acquired as opposed to a Jones under contract 5 more seasons (yes Hanifins cap hit ended up better than Jones in the end, but with cap increases coming the Jones deal will end up same percentage of cap in a couple of seasons). Hanifin is lefty (as opposed to the more in demand RHD), less productive offensively, plays 3-4 minutes per game less. I don't think 2 late first (Hemming and the '26 1st) is a stretch for Jones, especially is you are taking a dump contract like Dumba to smooth out the money in the near term before the cap increases make Jones deal easy to absorb. The bottom pairing D prospect in the Hanifin deal is also a RHD (again the harder to find) and had played parts of 3 seasons of NHL games and AHL so not as tough to project as say a younger d prospect or the 3rd rounder of actually ending up with an NHL player. 18 year old Hemming still has a chance of little to even no NHL impact where at the point Miromanov was acquired, the likelihood he would actually be an NHL contributor was far more certain.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Hanifin was a pending UFA under team control for a month and a half when acquired as opposed to a Jones under contract 5 more seasons (yes Hanifins cap hit ended up better than Jones in the end, but with cap increases coming the Jones deal will end up same percentage of cap in a couple of seasons). Hanifin is lefty (as opposed to the more in demand RHD), less productive offensively, plays 3-4 minutes per game less. I don't think 2 late first (Hemming and the '26 1st) is a stretch for Jones, especially is you are taking a dump contract like Dumba to smooth out the money in the near term before the cap increases make Jones deal easy to absorb. The bottom pairing D prospect in the Hanifin deal is also a RHD (again the harder to find) and had played parts of 3 seasons of NHL games and AHL so not as tough to project as say a younger d prospect or the 3rd rounder of actually ending up with an NHL player. 18 year old Hemming still has a chance of little to even no NHL impact where at the point Miromanov was acquired, the likelihood he would actually be an NHL contributor was far more certain.

Sure, all valid points. I was speaking about the ballpark value.

 

[wetcoast]

I really wonder if Dallas has the assets to trade for Jones here?

 

[LT]

I really wonder if Dallas has the assets to trade for Jones here?

It's not a question of us having them, it's who we'd be willing to move.

 

[wetcoast]

It's not a question of us having them, it's who we'd be willing to move.

Ya maybe but it's still a hard trade to swing.

He makes more than Miro, not that I think Miro would hold that against him and he still is a very good Dman but probably never developed like I thought he would when I saw him in junior but it would be a very interesting trade for both teams.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

What Dallas needs to trade to Chicago is a young LW prospect they will likely not be able to give a contract to in the future. Like Wyatt Johnson or Logan Stankoven.

Neither of these players are prospects or Left Wingers.. lmfao what

 

[EbonyRaptor]

I really wonder if Dallas has the assets to trade for Jones here?

Assets? The only asset Dallas needs is a pen to sign on the dotted line. We'll even retain a couple million in salary and if that doesn't close the deal we'll throw in Murphy at half prices.

 

[Sinbad]

Assets? The only asset Dallas needs is a pen to sign on the dotted line. We'll even retain a couple million in salary and if that doesn't close the deal we'll throw in Murphy at half prices.

Totally disagree, I can’t see the Hawks retaining on Jones for that long unless the acquiring team is significantly overpaying. As I suggested in my proposal, I could see them taking a cap dump back (Dumba or Ceci) but that’s it.

 

[LT]

Totally disagree, I can’t see the Hawks retaining on Jones for that long unless the acquiring team is significantly overpaying. As I suggested in my proposal, I could see them taking a cap dump back (Dumba or Ceci) but that’s it.

Why on earth would Ceci be a cap dump? We specifically acquired him, and he's an upcoming UFA

The only cap dump on our roster is Dumba

 

[Sinbad]

Why on earth would Ceci be a cap dump? We specifically acquired him, and he's an upcoming UFA

The only cap dump on our roster is Dumba

Well considering he was literally a cap dump less than a year ago by the Oilers… however, let rephrase… I could see the Hawks taking back a contract in order to make the finances work. Better?

 

[Kevin Musto]

To Chicago:

-Matt Dumba
-Mavrik Bourque
-the rights to Angus MacDonell

To Dallas:

-Seth Jones
-2025 Dallas 2nd round pick

 

[Jared Dunn]

This is the problem with his value, and coupled with his contract, is why I think he'll be an offseason move. Assuming he gets moved at all.

But Dallas also is in kind of a unique spot for a contender where they could pretty easily add the huge deal in season. With Seguin on LTIR taking back Dumba and retaining even $2 million makes it palatable. Feels like the last EK trade would be sort of a template but I don't know that a 3rd team needs to be involved

Lundkvist + Dumba + 1st for Jones 2.5 retained

 

[u2wojo]

To Chicago:

-Matt Dumba
-Mavrik Bourque
-the rights to Angus MacDonell

To Dallas:

-Seth Jones
-2025 Dallas 2nd round pick

Lol....your hate of Jones knows no bounds....two 5'10 forwards (one a late round pick who likely never sniffs the NHL), a contract dump, and the Hawks throw in a 2nd for some comedic relief and gigles for all. You should throw in a couple million per year of retention to make this even more ridiculous.

 

[wetcoast]

To Chicago:

-Matt Dumba
-Mavrik Bourque
-the rights to Angus MacDonell

To Dallas:

-Seth Jones
-2025 Dallas 2nd round pick

Why would the Black Hawks throw in a second rounder?

People are really undervaluing Jones and his contract isn't that crippling going forward.

 

[roryjones]

To Chicago:

-Matt Dumba
-Mavrik Bourque
-the rights to Angus MacDonell

To Dallas:

-Seth Jones
-2025 Dallas 2nd round pick

No. Not moving Bourque.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Why would the Black Hawks throw in a second rounder?

People are really undervaluing Jones and his contract isn't that crippling going forward.

A late 2nd in this year's draft is nearly worthless

It's like having a 5th round pick in last year's draft.

 

[TLEH]

Why on earth would Ceci be a cap dump? We specifically acquired him, and he's an upcoming UFA

The only cap dump on our roster is Dumba

Couldn’t speak much to his play this year but to me his UFA status or why you have him doesn’t determine if hes a dump. If his salary gets in the way of improving (him or others) and no one wants him for free then he’s a dump.

 

[LT]

Couldn’t speak much to his play this year but to me his UFA status or why you have him doesn’t determine if hes a dump. If his salary gets in the way of improving (him or others) and no one wants him for free then he’s a dump.

Jim Nill is not going to view Ceci as a cap dump. That's all that matters.

He almost certainly views Dumba as a cap dump.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

A late 2nd in this year's draft is nearly worthless

It's like having a 5th round pick in last year's draft.

Hyperbole.

This is just one opinion but I'm pretty sure similar comments can be found elsewhere. Scott Wheeler:

There has been a lot of talk about this online and in the media, so I wanted to start with it and nip it in the bud a little because I think it has gotten carried away. A lot of people like me, who do draft work in the public sphere, have spent the pre-trade deadline waxing poetic about how much stronger 2026 is than 2025, and how 2025 is a weak class. I think that gives the wrong idea to the average fan and/or misleads on a few fronts, though. (...)

Second, the strength of drafts is largely led by the players at the top. If 2026 is a strong draft, it’ll be because it has Gavin McKenna. That doesn’t mean when we’re talking about trading late-first-round picks that it’s necessarily any deeper than any other draft. And it’s definitely much too early to be making that determination. Very quickly, though, these things can take on a life of their own. If folks are convinced that 2025 is a weak class and that 2026 is a much stronger one, and that becomes an overwhelming view this far out, I’d sooner add picks in 2025 than subtract them if people are ready to give them away and talk themselves out of this draft.

I also don’t think 2025 is a weak class. It’s not 2024 (with Macklin Celebrini and all those high-end D prospects) or 2023 (with Connor Bedard, Matvei Michkov, Adam Fantilli, Leo Carlsson, Will Smith and company). But we’ve also been spoiled the last two years and I like the top four or five prospects in this year’s draft more than I liked the top four or five picks in 2022 (Juraj Slafkovský, Simon Nemec, Logan Cooley, Shane Wright, Cutter Gauthier) and 2021 (Owen Power, Matty Beniers, Mason McTavish, Luke Hughes, Kent Johnson). It’s true that this draft isn’t very deep beyond those guys, but there are going to be some very good players picked in the mid-to-late first and early on Day 2, as there always are.

Misa vs. Hagens, 2025 vs. 2026 draft, NCAA free-agent class: Wheeler’s mailbag

It's time for a giant prospects mailbag after unveiling the top 100 drafted prospects list and a new 2025 draft ranking.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Unspecified]

To Chicago:

-Matt Dumba
-Mavrik Bourque
-the rights to Angus MacDonell

To Dallas:

-Seth Jones
-2025 Dallas 2nd round pick

Deal, no take backs.............