ArGarBarGar
What do we want!? Unfair!
- Sep 8, 2008
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Movies: Star Wars: Rogue One Part II Release date Dec 14th
- Thread starter Jumptheshark
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Randy Butternubs
Registurd User
[Spoil]You're thinking of the Phantom, which was the shuttle like ship attached to the Ghost. They've since replaced it with a ship from the stranded battle droids episode.[/Spoil]
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
RobBrown4PM
Pringles?
- Oct 12, 2009
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ArGarBarGar
What do we want!? Unfair!
- Sep 8, 2008
- 44,074
- 11,863
But I read no true Star Wars fan would ever watch anything made by Disney and stay loyal to George Lucas.
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
WarriorOfGandhi
Was saying Boo-urns
I saw the notepad in 1975 that George Lucas used to write down his ideas in. Here's how to tell if you're a true Star Wars fan. If you've ever seen any Star Wars film, you're not a true Star Wars fan.
RobBrown4PM
Pringles?
- Oct 12, 2009
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Holden Caulfield
He's guilty
Just rewatched tfa again. Im 95% sure people hating on it are doing it either decided they werent going to like it going in (either consciously or unconsciously) or are doing it to be cool. It is a star wars movie through and through. Fun fast paced adventure scifi movie. Its what star wars has always been based on. Its got some issues, and by no means is perfect but it is what it set out to be. A return to true star wars type story telling. I enjoyed it its not meant to be deep thinking philosophical/emotional movie.
Holden Caulfield
He's guilty
Really excited for rogue one. Its going to have a much different feel from other star wars movies, imo. Cannot wait to see it.
Agreed. While I feel they overdid it with nostalgia call backs in some places (like the training Droid on the Falcon) it wasn't that over gratuitous to me. And the big super weapon plot being recycled is not original but the assault felt different enough and the destruction bealt by SKB was so much greater that I didn't mind much.
The rest people gripe about is nitpicking familiar elements of the star wars saga. As though other series don't do the same thing. Like the Bond films. Or Harry Potter. Or Indiana Jones. Every film series borrows elements from past films to please fans and make them feel safe in the movie's "world". I've never seen a serialized film crucified so viciously for doing it.
It's definitely felt to me that a lot of people tried not to like it. And I'm sure they don't. But you can hate anything if you go in with a closed mind.
You reminded me of The Last Crusade.
"What's that?"
"The Ark of the Covenant."
"How do you know?"
"Trust me."
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
AS one of the old dogs on the site--I saw Star Wars in 77 when it first came out. TFA while not as good as the 77--but it is not as bad as some want it to be
CokenoPepsi
Registered User
- Oct 28, 2016
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That was just a 3 second joke, it is a little different...
Force Awakens to me was ok, but nothing really magical. It was cool seeing the OT crew again
Shareefruck
Registered User
I hate how people always feel the need to jump to unreasonably dismissive conclusions about why people on the other side disagreed with them. Just respectfully disagree and move on.
"If you disagreed with me, then I'm pretty sure you're just doing it to be cool, because you're close-minded, or because you tried not to like it."
It's a ludicrous thing to say, but for some reason it's considered acceptable when it's in favor of something. You wouldn't tolerate someone claiming that people only like something because they're doughy-eyed simpletons, why throw the same unwarranted charge in the opposite direction?
"If you disagreed with me, then I'm pretty sure you're just doing it to be cool, because you're close-minded, or because you tried not to like it."
It's a ludicrous thing to say, but for some reason it's considered acceptable when it's in favor of something. You wouldn't tolerate someone claiming that people only like something because they're doughy-eyed simpletons, why throw the same unwarranted charge in the opposite direction?
WarriorOfGandhi
Was saying Boo-urns
No, dude.
No.
I went in excited beyond all belief because Star Wars is by far my favorite entity in all of man-made entertainment and unlike the prequels it couldn't be another abortion of acting, plot, and CGI. I was excited for new characters, new planets, new enemies, new ships, and to see the Falcon outrun TIE fighters again.
They could have done anything with that movie. Anything. It didn't have to be "philosophical", they could have had 3PO doing taxes for 120 minutes. They had carte blanche from the largest fanbase in the world to come up with whatever the hell they wanted as long as we didn't continue to see Jar Jar Binks in at least 50% of all Star Wars movies. It could have been the definition of average and nobody would consider that a bad rebound.
All the potential and none of the pressure and the end result is a film clearly designed to do nothing except rake in the absolute most cash. Craft it according to proven success by importing the most important plot points of the most loved film. Bring back the characters everyone loves and create new characters that don't stray far from the archetype. Push the nostalgia button until it breaks. Disney wanted the the absolute greatest reward with the absolute bare minimum of risk. And boy did they get it. And $12 of it was mine.
I wasn't expecting a movie that pushed boundaries. But I think it's more than fair to be disappointed in a movie that happily creates them.
We've been down this road before. I'm not painting everyone who disliked TFA under the same brush.
GlassesJacketShirt
Registered User
Trailer looks pretty good, quite frankly I often find international trailers do a much better job of getting me interested for whatever reason than the initial trailers.
Shareefruck
Registered User
And we should keep going down that road whenever it happens.
I would at least say that Holden Caulfield, who you agreed with, blatantly did do that-- "Im 95% sure people hating on it are doing it either decided they werent going to like it going in (either consciously or unconsciously) or are doing it to be cool."-- That's painting a majority of (if not all) people with that broad brush, outright.
... and your comment, "It's definitely felt to me that a lot of people tried not to like it. And I'm sure they don't. But you can hate anything if you go in with a closed mind.", while less committed, still chooses to frame things in that light, and baseless-ly make that assumption about whatever percentage you happen to be referring to.
I'm not trying to attack you personally or anything, but just think about how you would take the equal opposite opinion-- it's a very underhanded, passive aggressive, "come at me bro" way to talk, intentional or not. Is there even any reason to think that more people disliked it under the false pretense of bull-headed pessimistic skepticism than people who liked it under the false pretense of irrational fanboy hype? Both seem equally likely to me/cancel each other out, and there's no way to really make a judgement call for one over the other, so choosing to highlight the side you disagree with seems pretty disingenuous, self-serving, and unfair. It's more or less a vague straw-man argument. Setting up the easier argument that nobody's actually making and knocking it down.
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The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
I'd also love it if as an extra nod, if there are radio check-ins in that scene that the camera is on another ship and in all the different ships acknowledging orders and whatnot you just hear a familiar voice on the radio saying "Ghost, standing by" or "Phoenix Squadron, standing by" or something like that. It would be totally inconsequential but a lot of fun.
Well like I said. I just feel TFA gets a tougher rap for recycling elements than just about every film series out there.
The sensation I get is some people look for reasons not to like it. I understand it can go the other way. Fanboyism can put on the blinders to flaws. I can't pretend I'm not a huge star wars fan. I changed my name to Han Solo. But I do my best to analyze TFA critically. And yes it has its flaws. Overdependence on nostalgia is one of them, and recycling the X wing assault on a big round superweapon is another. But for me it doesn't bother me all that much. For all the familiarity, there's enough freshness that I enjoy. From a filmmaking standpoint it's a terrifically crafted movie in just about every respect other than the Rathtars and some forgettable John Williams work. The action is well done though the movie does suffer from a breakneck pace at times. I don't know. To me, it's a fun movie. It doesn't do much thats new but that seems to be the biggest concern.
You get to a point where people say it's an awful movie. And the reason is always the same: its too similar to ANH and ESB. It doesn't do enough thats new. The 7th movie in a film series is borrowing too much from the past and THAT makes it an awful movie? Come on.
We've had how many Bond movies now? 24? In what way are Bond movies thematically different? Bond does an action sequence to start the movie, the villain's plot slowly unravels as Bond is put on assignment, Bond goes to exotic locations, fights bad guys, investigates the matter at hand and uses his skills and gadgets to elaborately stop the villain. The difference being that the Bronsan and Moore eras brought the campiness factor and the Craig era films were Nolanized and expanded to delve into Bond's past and psyche. But for 24 films the same elements are present in just about every film to the point where quotes are recycled. No one complains. No one. They keep making them, people keep going to see them, and it's a well beloved series. Indiana Jones is another example, albeit a shorter run of films. Even within the Star Wars original trilogy and the prequel trilogy, elements are recycled. Pretty blatantly. But no one's biggest issue with the Prequels is the recycling of plot and dialogue elements. People don't like the prequels because they are poorly written, poorly acted, and the overabundance of CGI makes for an unnatural cinematic experience.
I just think the familiarity factor is vastly overblown and I do believe in some circles there are those that didn't want to like this movie and were looking for reasons to be disappointed. And I'm sure others just simply didn't enjoy it. But the former group certainly exists in the form of what I perceive to be a hivemind. How big that group is, I don't know for sure but I'd say it's substantial. Just my view. I don't think that every person is disingenuous in their dislike of TFA.
My dog in this race is that I do like this movie a fair bit. I've said many times, it's around A New Hope for me for my personal rankings. I don't think any Star Wars films are masterpieces. Not even Empire Strikes Back. TFA is no masterpiece but to me it's at worst a fun and entertaining movie that from a technical perspective is well made. All Star Wars has to be for me is entertaining. Episodes 4 5 6 and 7 are all entertaining to me. 3 to a very minor extent is watchable. 2 and 1 are insufferable to me at this point. And it's just that popular opinion goes on to define how a movie is perceived down the line. I see far too many people call it terrible with the recycled plot elements being the only major complaint they have. I already think the line between what people perceive too be good and absolute dog **** is paper thin these days to begin with, but I don't think TFA's flaws warrant a label of terrible.
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