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Staal Defenseman of the Tourny!

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Russian_fanatic said:
Well to be a number 1 you need to have the offensive game, but Staal just doesn't have that much offensive weapons IMO. Nothing wrong with being a top notch #2.
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It takes intelligence to jump into the rush the way he did for the 2nd Team Canada goal. Now I don't follow the OHL, but offensively challenged players can't pull those off. That was a smart player's read, and a good one too.

What do you think of Adam Foote, Robyn Regehr, ect? I personally consider them No 1 defenseman, and Regehr doesn't know the first thing about offense.

Marc Staal plays a very smart and safe game, which is what I'd rather have. He's not a gambler, but with a read like the one on the 2nd goal, he could easily QB the PP, jump into the play and create odd man rushes.

Now Ryan Parent doesn't have the offensive weapons, but I love hte game Ryan Parent plays. He's remind me of a non clutch-and-grab version of Scott Hannan, a shutdown ace.
 
H N I C said:
Congratz to Staal. Man next yr if these guys arn't playing in the NHL, this team can have Bourdon, Staal, Parent back next yr. :eek:
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Don't forget Letand and Russell. Obviously they won't be in the NHL, but Staal and Bourdon definitely have a shot at the bigs! If all 5 are back next year, I wonder who the other 2 D-men could be?
 
Phanuthier said:
It really wa sa 4 way tie between E Johnson, J Johnson, Staal and Parent. I thought Barker was pretty good too (never letting in a goal)... not flashy, but solid.
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It should have gone to either Barker or Bourdon. They were rocks as well and also put up pts, ran the PP, etc. There is no way JJ gets any consideration for this award as he was a -4 and didn't create much offense. He should never have been on the all-star team, there were better D-men on the Russian team than JJ.
 
I don't want to sound offensive, but is there any chance you're slightly biased Russian Fanatic due to the ongoing comparisons of him to Bourdon? As far as his offense, maybe a Sudbury Wolves (did I get that right) fan can help me out here but I thought that he broke out this year offensively and is having a very good season there.
 
Phanuthier said:
It takes intelligence to jump into the rush the way he did for the 2nd Team Canada goal. Now I don't follow the OHL, but offensively challenged players can't pull those off. That was a smart player's read, and a good one too.

What do you think of Adam Foote, Robyn Regehr, ect? I personally consider them No 1 defenseman, and Regehr doesn't know the first thing about offense.

Marc Staal plays a very smart and safe game, which is what I'd rather have. He's not a gambler, but with a read like the one on the 2nd goal, he could easily QB the PP, jump into the play and create odd man rushes.

Now Ryan Parent doesn't have the offensive weapons, but I love hte game Ryan Parent plays. He's remind me of a non clutch-and-grab version of Scott Hannan, a shutdown ace.
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Now you're pushing it. First I did say he can chip in 25-30 points did I not? Which is decent IMO, but again he wont be asked to QB the PP, but he might as well be there. Top notch #2 defenseman is his potential IMO, and he'll reach that. His biggest knock coming into the draft was his upside, and he raised his stock from being a #3 potential wise, to a #2.

NYRGoalieGlut said:
I don't want to sound offensive, but is there any chance you're slightly biased Russian Fanatic due to the ongoing comparisons of him to Bourdon? As far as his offense, maybe a Sudbury Wolves (did I get that right) fan can help me out here but I thought that he broke out this year offensively and is having a very good season there.
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You're not offending me, but I'm just writing down what I think. TOP NOTCH #2 DEFENSEMAN, which is a top pairing defenseman you know?
 
Russian fanatic, #2 is good, it was the "poor man's Ohlund" thing that made it sound like you weren't too high on him. Not saying Ohlund is bad, but "poor man's" just doesn't sound too good.
 
NYRGoalieGlut said:
Russian fanatic, #2 is good, it was the "poor man's Ohlund" thing that made it sound like you weren't too high on him. Not saying Ohlund is bad, but "poor man's" just doesn't sound too good.
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Well then you can take off the poor mans. I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear :) NYR should be very proud that they got this man. I like Staal alot, infact before the drafted I wanted one of Staal, Bourdon, or Skille.
 
Russian_fanatic said:
Well then you can take off the poor mans. I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear :) NYR should be very proud that they got this man. I like Staal alot, infact before the drafted I wanted one of Staal, Bourdon, or Skille.
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What do you think of Bourdon? Potential and stuff like that.
 
I guess we disagree RF, but I think Marc Staal has a ton more offense then you give him credit for. Someone said it above, Staal's job here was to shut down the Malkin's and Kessel's, and he did that. That was his job... he wasn't supposed to be a Jovo or McCabe on this team, they wanted him to lead a top defensive system.

Another thing to considering is big players (Staal is 6'3?) take alot longer to learn how to develop then smaller players. Everything from coordination, their edges, how strong they are ect ect, its far too early to say he has limited upside (I'd say No 2 is too low). I remember when Phaneuf was drafted, they said his upside was a solid No 2 or No 3.

Also, learning curve... one thing to really look at in a prospect isn't just stats or how he's playing now, but how much and how fast he is improving. A player with a higher learning curve is a good sign, and Staal just keeps on impressing me.

We'll see though... I think Staal very much has the potential to be a top 10-15 defenseman, but we obviously won't know for a couple years.
 
NYRGoalieGlut said:
What do you think of Bourdon? Potential and stuff like that.
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Well I wont comment because I'll be a homer over here, but go visit the Canucks board and you'll see what we think.
 
I think you guys got me wrong. I rated him as a #2 defender because of his style. His impact will be like a #1 defenseman, though. Ohlund was considered as a top 10 defenseman in the NHL when he was a #2 defenseman in reality. When I mean #2 defenseman I mean defensive stalwarts.

Sorry for the mix up. He's going to have the impact of a #1 defenseman, and probably one of the top 10-15 defenders in the league. Just remember Ohlund.
 
My assement on Bourdon is a #1 defenseman(two way player) in the mold of Jovo. Not as offensively gifted, but not as many boneheaded plays.
 
Russian_fanatic said:
I think you guys got me wrong. I rated him as a #2 defender because of his style. His impact will be like a #1 defenseman, though. Ohlund was considered as a top 10 defenseman in the NHL when he was a #2 defenseman in reality. When I mean #2 defenseman I mean defensive stalwarts.
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That's fair. I think there is far too much emphasis on offense.

And I personally think Ohlund is a No 1 defenseman, and a No 1 on the Canucks as well.
 
Russian_fanatic said:
My assement on Bourdon is a #1 defenseman(two way player) in the mold of Jovo. Not as offensively gifted, but not as many boneheaded plays.
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That is exactly who I'd compare Bourdon to. He really does remind me of Jovo.

His mistakes haven't had as big of a impact (at least not at the WJC) but I think his gambles, risks and decision making taking low percentage play may glarify his weaknesses in the future. but again we'll see about that.
 
Phanuthier said:
That is exactly who I'd compare Bourdon to. He really does remind me of Jovo.

His mistakes haven't had as big of a impact (at least not at the WJC) but I think his gambles, risks and decision making taking low percentage play may glarify his weaknesses in the future. but again we'll see about that.
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IMO rob blake with better skating is a better comparision
 
Russian_fanatic said:
I think you guys got me wrong. I rated him as a #2 defender because of his style. His impact will be like a #1 defenseman, though. Ohlund was considered as a top 10 defenseman in the NHL when he was a #2 defenseman in reality. When I mean #2 defenseman I mean defensive stalwarts.

Sorry for the mix up. He's going to have the impact of a #1 defenseman, and probably one of the top 10-15 defenders in the league. Just remember Ohlund.
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Hey you don't have to apologize, it's your opinion. I don't understand though why a #1 has to be an offensive defenseman and the #2 has to be a defensive defenseman.
 
Was the '05 draft supposed to be deep in Dmen? BTW, is Staal vs. Bourdon, like Eli Manning vs. Big Ben in football? We even got the brother connection. One seems safer and the other maybe a slightly higher upside.
 
NYRGoalieGlut said:
Was the '05 draft supposed to be deep in Dmen? BTW, is Staal vs. Bourdon, like Eli Manning vs. Big Ben in football? We even got the brother connection. One seems safer and the other maybe a slightly higher upside.
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One thing's for sure is defenseman were hot pick'ins on draft draft day. Alot of defenseman were drafted much higher then expected, because of the rate defenseman were being selected.
 
yep, lots of top Dmen were taken high, with Ottawa looking like the only team to draft a guy who didnt stand out in the tourney. Lee looks to have tons of potential, maybe more than the guys drafted around him, but he has the longest way to realize that potential. I saw enough of him to feel ok about passing over both Bourdon and Staal.

With that said, I would probably feel a little better right now with Staal in my prospect pool than Lee, but things change
 
If Luc Bourdon develops well, I can see him be something similar to Phaneuf.

He might not be as reliable, but Bourdon has the same skill set. I am so glad he got traded to Moncton.
 
NYRGoalieGlut said:
I don't want to sound offensive, but is there any chance you're slightly biased Russian Fanatic due to the ongoing comparisons of him to Bourdon? As far as his offense, maybe a Sudbury Wolves (did I get that right) fan can help me out here but I thought that he broke out this year offensively and is having a very good season there.
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His offense was missing the last two seasons, but this season hes using it. Hes so smart on the offense, and is regulary used in the shootout(can that be said of any defenseman?), Hes succesful atleast 80% of the time. Hes had a few break-aways this season from smartly jumping into the play, and is QBing the Wolves PP, has already lead to career ohl bests in goals and assists this season for him. He defintly looks NHL Ready.
 
A Lone Wolf said:
His offense was missing the last two seasons, but this season hes using it. Hes so smart on the offense, and is regulary used in the shootout(can that be said of any defenseman?), Hes succesful atleast 80% of the time. Hes had a few break-aways this season from smartly jumping into the play, and is QBing the Wolves PP, has already lead to career ohl bests in goals and assists this season for him. He defintly looks NHL Ready.
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Thanks although I don't know if OHL offense translates, but yeah it at least challanges the notion that he has no offense. What kind of offensive production do you think he can have in the NHL?
 
I really dont know. When he entered the OHL draft, some people where calling him the next Orr. I think he'll put up decent numbers in the NHL, not elite, but not low level, somewhere in between.
 
Russian_fanatic said:
My assement on Bourdon is a #1 defenseman(two way player) in the mold of Jovo. Not as offensively gifted, but not as many boneheaded plays.
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We will have to wait and see how Bourdon handles the pace at the NHL level. Last pre-season as the pace picked up in his last few exhibition games Bourdon looked much less ready. Sending him back to junior and letting him play in the WJC was the best thing for him.

There have been many highly touted junior defenceman who did not make the jump or took a long time to develop (on the Canucks see Allen, Baumgartner and McCarthy).

One thing that may help Bourdon is his recent trade to Moncton where he will be coached by Ted Nolan. Also he gets to play in the Memorial Cup with Moncton as the host team.

He looks like a blue-chipper but particularly with D-men you just never know.
 
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