In a pure vacuum perhaps the trade value is close, but taking into account long-term outlook for the Blues, it makes zero sense. The Blues are not going to trade a 6’6 cost/controlled 25 year old 4th/3rd line player entering his prime and a developing 24 year old 3rd (potentially 2nd line) RHD for a 31-year old bottom 6 center out of his prime whose contact expires in 2 years. A trade like this could make sense for a team that is a serious contender for the Cup, but absolutely not the Blues whose outlook for seriously competing isn’t for another 2-4 years, the time period where the players they’d be trading in this hypothetical would still be in their prime and in the position to help the Blues compete. I wouldn’t trade Toropchenko or Kessel straight up for Pageau for those reasons alone.
Proposal: St. Louis - NY Islanders
- Thread starter Maurice of Orange
- Start date
Makes no sense for the blues. We have Faska as the 3C and seems like we are fine putting buch as the 2C for now. NO reason to trade young players for older ones. Kessel played well and should easily slot in our 3rd RHD. We have no defensemen behind him realistically that can step up.
Solid no matt kessel anf torps are.going no where. We dont need pageu. Not at all we have thomas schenn buch and prob dvorsky and dean sunny and the new guy to play center with stin berg coming the following yearSt. Louis acquire: C Jean-Gabriel Pageau
(NYI Retains $625k per season for the final two seasons of Pageau’s contract)
(Pageau waives 16 team no trade list for St. Louis)
NY Islanders acquire: LW/RW Alexey Toropchenko, RD Matt Kessel and a 2026 3rd round pick (STL)
The Blues get a 2-way veteran center with shutdown abilities that is also one of the best faceoff players in the NHL, aggressive PKer on the puck short handed.
The Islanders get towering versatile winger in Toropchenko that can play either wing and throw his weight around, also has some scoring upside, skates well for a 6’6” / 198c forward with a decent shot, NY also gets a RHS defensive defender in Kessel that is proficient in moving the puck out of his own zone that is waiver exempt, finally the Isles get some much needed cap relief in this proposal.
I don't like Buch at center either. Most of us don't, and know he's most effective on the wing.
Our issue right now is 2C. We'll probably continue to have some sort of patchwork rotation at 2C until Dvorsky moves up and develops (we hope.) Schenn is probably more of a 3C or winger going forward. Faksa is probably going to see a lot of time at 3C. A little bit of Texier. I like Pageau, but he's kinda repetitive. He's a better 3C than we have now, but not the 2C we need. He's not particularly young or cheap. And to deal from RHD, which is our thinnest position in the org by a lot, to slightly upgrade 3C, at the expense of younger, cheaper talent just doesn't work. It's not atrocious value-wise, but it doesn't make any sense.
UnSandvich
Registered User
- Sep 7, 2017
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No it wouldnt why would blues give up a good young 2nd pairing rhd. And a 3rd pairing center with grit for a guy who gets 33 points and also give up a 3rd. Its asinine
Memento
Future Authoress.
Absolutely not.
Without Kessel, we'd get cratered on right defense because there's literally nobody else other than him, Parayko, and Faulk - and Faulk was terrible last year. Skinner and Biakabatuka are AHL bodies. Jiricek and McIsaac are nowhere close to helping us, since we literally just drafted them. Johannesson was signed to replace Rosen as a potential call-up for injuries, but he's very much a wild card because we don't know what we have in him. As for lefties playing the right side, Perunovich is always hurt; we're always waiting for the other shoe to drop with him. Tucker is not NHL caliber with his skating. And now that Krug is on LTIR for possibly the entire year, we literally need all the help we can get with defense, which means that Kessel is simply not an option to be moved, especially since he's reaching his prime.
Toropchenko is the kind of player you hope to get and dream about getting in the later rounds. A huge, physical winger that can forecheck with the best of them, provide a bit of offense, and be fantastic on the penalty kill - and he's still getting to his prime. Would you prefer him on the fourth line? Absolutely, but he can play up and not skip a beat.
That third-round pick, as much as it may seem meaningless, is the second-highest pick in this year's draft, since we traded our second to get Hayes off the team. It's too valuable to just throw in as a bonus to this deal. If we're throwing in a draft pick, it's to get a younger player - most likely a defenseman - who can fit with our core.
And all that for Jean-Gabriel Pageau? A thirty-one-year-old bottom six center who would not solve the issues on this team (secondary scoring and productive defense)? Whom we already traded for Faksa and Texier to have something similar?
Again, absolutely not. Like other Blues fans have stated, at this point, regarding what our needs are and our timeline, this makes absolutely no sense for the Blues to take, and I wouldn't even trade Kessel or Toropchenko for him straight up.
Without Kessel, we'd get cratered on right defense because there's literally nobody else other than him, Parayko, and Faulk - and Faulk was terrible last year. Skinner and Biakabatuka are AHL bodies. Jiricek and McIsaac are nowhere close to helping us, since we literally just drafted them. Johannesson was signed to replace Rosen as a potential call-up for injuries, but he's very much a wild card because we don't know what we have in him. As for lefties playing the right side, Perunovich is always hurt; we're always waiting for the other shoe to drop with him. Tucker is not NHL caliber with his skating. And now that Krug is on LTIR for possibly the entire year, we literally need all the help we can get with defense, which means that Kessel is simply not an option to be moved, especially since he's reaching his prime.
Toropchenko is the kind of player you hope to get and dream about getting in the later rounds. A huge, physical winger that can forecheck with the best of them, provide a bit of offense, and be fantastic on the penalty kill - and he's still getting to his prime. Would you prefer him on the fourth line? Absolutely, but he can play up and not skip a beat.
That third-round pick, as much as it may seem meaningless, is the second-highest pick in this year's draft, since we traded our second to get Hayes off the team. It's too valuable to just throw in as a bonus to this deal. If we're throwing in a draft pick, it's to get a younger player - most likely a defenseman - who can fit with our core.
And all that for Jean-Gabriel Pageau? A thirty-one-year-old bottom six center who would not solve the issues on this team (secondary scoring and productive defense)? Whom we already traded for Faksa and Texier to have something similar?
Again, absolutely not. Like other Blues fans have stated, at this point, regarding what our needs are and our timeline, this makes absolutely no sense for the Blues to take, and I wouldn't even trade Kessel or Toropchenko for him straight up.
BleedBlue14
UrGeNcY
It’s hard to call Kessel a 2nd pairing RHD. But he has earned a spot on our 3rd pair to break camp. He’s also dirt cheap. Torpo had 14 goals last season. It’s possible he’s a 3rd liner somewhere along the line. But I think you’re in a fantastic spot if he’s a 4th liner on your team.
The issue with Pageau is he’s old and outside of faceoffs and PK he doesn’t bring much to the table. Yet he’s paid like a low end 2C or a top of the line 3C. I appreciate a shutdown player. But I’m not sure we are constructed for that after taking on Faksa and already having Thomas assuming the all situations role.
He shouldn’t be worth 5m to us, nor 4.325m or even really a penny over what Faksas cap hit is considering JGPs extra season under contract.
I can imagine the outrage if we paid our 2nd, 3rd, Toropchenko and Kessel to move from Hayes to Pageau. I truly can’t imagine the outrage if we brought in Pagaeu for future considerations with anything less than a 2nd attached to him.
UnSandvich
Registered User
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I didn't say the Blues should do it, I said it'd be closer. Because retaining 2.5mil is very different from retaining 625k.
and yes i still think its an overpay even with 50% retention
stl76
No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
- Jul 2, 2015
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Extremely easy and emphatic no thank you, pretty terrible from a Blue perspective. Toropchenko and Kessel are valuable players for the Blues and Pageau is a fine player but frankly an unneeded overpaid luxury at this point.
(NYI Retains $625k per season for the final two seasons of Pageau’s contract)
(Pageau waives 16 team no trade list for St. Louis)
The Blues get a 2-way veteran center with shutdown abilities that is also one of the best faceoff players in the NHL, aggressive PKer on the puck short handed.
The Islanders get towering versatile winger in Toropchenko that can play either wing and throw his weight around, also has some scoring upside, skates well for a 6’6” / 198c forward with a decent shot, NY also gets a RHS defensive defender in Kessel that is proficient in moving the puck out of his own zone that is waiver exempt, finally the Isles get some much needed cap relief in this proposal.
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BlueOil
"well-informed"
- Apr 28, 2010
- 7,263
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you must've missed this, but armstrong is only gonna retool, not create a lottery line up like you've posted here
TK 421
Barbashev eats babies pass it on
- Sep 12, 2007
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So the Blues have this small army of talent coming but the wave doesn't crest in '24-'25 hence the many, many plugs you see projected to play minutes this upcoming season. '24-'25's problems get a big heaping helping of potential ELC reinforcements for '25-'26 though so you can see why we don't want to see money or minutes committed to vets with term.
C Dvorsky, RW Snuggerud, C/LW Stenberg, C Dean and LD Lindstein all either in St. Louis or Springfield means they can afford to see how things shake out before seeking out vets to augment the youth movement. Especially at forward where they already have 3 1st line guys in Thomas, Kyrou and Buchnevich along with Neighbours and Bolduc. When you're filling in behind your 1st line instead of trying to create a 1st line out of kids it's much easier to see how the team could completely transform it's forward group overnight and hit the ground running but even if they don't that's a really nice group to lean on in the next 2-3 years.
C Dvorsky, RW Snuggerud, C/LW Stenberg, C Dean and LD Lindstein all either in St. Louis or Springfield means they can afford to see how things shake out before seeking out vets to augment the youth movement. Especially at forward where they already have 3 1st line guys in Thomas, Kyrou and Buchnevich along with Neighbours and Bolduc. When you're filling in behind your 1st line instead of trying to create a 1st line out of kids it's much easier to see how the team could completely transform it's forward group overnight and hit the ground running but even if they don't that's a really nice group to lean on in the next 2-3 years.
LeapOnOver
Mackenzie is a hack!
Most Islander fans would be thrilled moving Pageau's salary out. I think actually it's an overpayment for the Blues as really Pageau is nothing but a face-off shut down guy. Ever since his wrist injury, there's zero offense from him at this point.
I think most Islander fans are keeping quiet because we know if we post that we like this trade, we'll just get a bunch of Blues fans shouting at us, "Of course you do!!!"
Reality Czech
Registered User
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2nd pairing is a bit optimistic regarding Kessel at this point but of course he could develop into that. The problem isn't the value but rather where the Blues are right now in terms of contending. Pageau is a solid player and I'm sure some teams would be interested in acquiring him, but that team won't be the Blues. No reason to get snippy about it though.
Maurice of Orange
13:21 🏒🏒
- Feb 5, 2016
- 10,795
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Thank you from posting from an Islanders POV, Lou’s going to eventually figure out how to move salary out whether it’s a Pageau trade or another roster player.
It seems Pageau has become expendable last season, mostly due to the emergence of Kyle MacLean as a center in the bottom 6 and the fact that Pageau was tried as a 2C and failed to produce offensively.
Not to say that Pageau can’t have a comeback season just as Kyle Palmieri had last season, but ever since Pageau’s wrist injury he hasn’t been the player he once was with Ottawa and early on with the Islanders especially in the playoffs.
Blues fans have spoken and it doesn’t make sense for where they are at the their retool, but it also not make sense from an Islanders standpoint except for the relief in cap space.
A player like Engvall could make acquiring Torop redundant as they could be viewed as not being much different then one another as both players are towing forecheckers with good skating abilities, also Kessel probably would be an extra defender as Dobson, Pulock and Mayfield are the RD on the Islanders defense and would have to wait for a opportunity to play if every Isles defender were healthy.
The Islanders would also be over the 23 player limit which would either have to send Maxim Tsyplakov to the AHL or expose a player to waivers with the potential to lose another roster player under the proposal.
Mr Misunderstood
Must win.
Isles fan quietly sitting here thinking "shit, I would take one of those pieces alone for JGP cap relief, let alone all three."
Kevin27NYI
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2009
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I wrote this on the Isles board but my issue with ‘dumping’ Pageau is one, I think he has value so buyout and using picks to get rid of him doesn’t interest me. I want to say Staple from the Athletic said Isles had interest in him for low picks at the deadline and stuck with him. Two, at this point in the offseason, who are we replacing him with? Cool to get a third rounder but are we upgrading the position or another with the room plus retaining? Nope. That’s why I’d pass.
As far as his offensive game goes, you can point to powerplay time as the reason for last years drop off. He was a 42 point center the season prior as a 3C. With his faceoffs and defensive game that’s what you want. This season he was 9 points worse but 6 points less on the PP. Isles were pretty committed to their first unit last season.
As far as his offensive game goes, you can point to powerplay time as the reason for last years drop off. He was a 42 point center the season prior as a 3C. With his faceoffs and defensive game that’s what you want. This season he was 9 points worse but 6 points less on the PP. Isles were pretty committed to their first unit last season.
PocketNines
Cutter's Way
The proposal has been litigated and denied for the right reasons, but props to the OP for identifying Kessel as someone to try to get. Kessel still has room to improve and he will. He is the right player to sneakily try to get, but I also am pretty sure the Blues see the same thing in Kessel and don't want to trade him. Toropchenko is obviously one of those guys who will play in your bottom six forwards as a linchpin. OP did a good job selecting players to acquire here, just not something the Blues will want to do because I think Kessel is definitely part of the plans
As a Blues fan, I’d be frustrated to see them parting with young players who have developed enough to secure NHL roster spots and project to be in their prime during the next projected competitive window to acquire an aging player who will be long gone at that time.
So the relative value becomes almost moot.
So the relative value becomes almost moot.
I don't like it. Torp has too much potential to begin with. It's not like we would be getting a top 6 forward here. No deal!
Drubilly
Registered User
...better than being taken to the train station!
miscs75
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2014
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I can’t see St Louis giving up that much for Pageau. Ideally moving him out and not taking back remotely close to the cap hit would be the win for the Islanders. Maclean can take the 3C and Cizikas the 4C spot or vice versa if they were to move JGP out.
Absolutely not. We have no need for pagaue.
We have dvorsky 2c dean 3c and stenberg coming soon
We need kessel and we dont need a cap dump.
Cause we are not.
BelovedIsles
Registered User
- Oct 22, 2005
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